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What Apple today want's is for the customer to make a major purchase in the desktop OS realm every 24-36 months, multiple purchases of iOS devices every 12-24 months and subscribe to as many services as possible. In the meantime filling up landfills with it's time limited, nonrepairable hardware. I wouldn't consider purchasing a used one especially a 15" as there have been far too many design issues with them over the years and people seem to think that they are worth far more than they really are.
What's wrong with the 15" Retina Macs? I've been searching around for a 15" MBP (2015), preferably with Intel graphics only – just to ensure it lasts long.
These Macs seem to be the best out there, besides the 2019 16" MBP:
MacBook Pro 15" "Core i7" 2.8 Mid-2015 (IG) or MacBook Pro 15" "Core i7" 2.8 Mid-2015 (DG) if dGPU is reliable.
The only problem I've been having is dodgy sellers. I bought one and had to return it. I thought it was just booting up slow…a quick Apple Diagnostic Test showed it had storage & battery issues – I got my €700 back. I really thought I got a bargain. It was sad; my eyes had to adjust back to my…non-Retina display

I buy Macintosh hardware for macOS – and the Unibody MacBook Pros were very repairable & reliable. There's an element of satisfaction to be able to slot a DVD in, connect to Ethernet, insert in an SD card, plug in 2 USB-A cables…and I haven't even used the Firewire, MiniDisplay port, nor the Kensington lock slot.
That's on top of triple booting Catalina, Ubuntu, and Windows…
The only let down is having a slow Core 2 Duo CPU, and not having a dGPU nor Retina display…
–––
I miss 4" iPhones. An iPhone that I could navigate single-handedly with ease. I had iPhone SE "1" and the 5S before that, for a long time. I've had the iPhone 8 for a while now and I still miss the small SE. I actually tried to get my SE's battery replaced by an Apple Store abroad, and they said it was water-damaged. There's a little white sensor on the inside that was apparently red. I call bullsh*t on them.

I'm probably gonna buy the iPhone 12, and it's only because my iPhone 8 can't handle my favourite games. I can't play COD Mobile without using the Lowest graphics settings, and forget about Fortnite. My phone heats up and crashes. And my battery health is 90% so I don't understand. Games feel slower, maybe they got more advanced…but I used to play FPS games on my SE without problems. I feel forced to upgrade…
 
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What's wrong with the 15" Retina Macs? I've been searching around for a 15" MBP (2015), preferably with Intel graphics only – just to ensure it lasts long.
These Macs seem to be the best out there, besides the 2019 16" MBP:
MacBook Pro 15" "Core i7" 2.8 Mid-2015 (IG) or MacBook Pro 15" "Core i7" 2.8 Mid-2015 (DG) if dGPU is reliable.
The only problem I've been having is dodgy sellers. I bought one and had to return it. I thought it was just booting up slow…a quick Apple Diagnostic Test showed it had storage & battery issues – I got my €700 back. I really thought I got a bargain. It was sad; my eyes had to adjust back to my…non-Retina display

I buy Macintosh hardware for macOS – and the Unibody MacBook Pros were very repairable & reliable. There's an element of satisfaction to be able to slot a DVD in, connect to Ethernet, insert in an SD card, plug in 2 USB-A cables…and I haven't even used the Firewire, MiniDisplay port, nor the Kensington lock slot.
That's on top of triple booting Catalina, Ubuntu, and Windows…
The only let down is having a slow Core 2 Duo CPU, and not having a dGPU nor Retina display…
–––
I miss 4" iPhones. An iPhone that I could navigate single-handedly with ease. I had iPhone SE "1" and the 5S before that, for a long time. I've had the iPhone 8 for a while now and I still miss the small SE. I actually tried to get my SE's battery replaced by an Apple Store abroad, and they said it was water-damaged. There's a little white sensor on the inside that was apparently red. I call bullsh*t on them.

I'm probably gonna buy the iPhone 12, and it's only because my iPhone 8 can't handle my favourite games. I can't play COD Mobile without using the Lowest graphics settings, and forget about Fortnite. My phone heats up and crashes. And my battery health is 90% so I don't understand. Games feel slower, maybe they got more advanced…but I used to play FPS games on my SE without problems. I feel forced to upgrade…

The 15" MBP has a long history of design issues/problems, some models are OK, however it certainly pays to do some research and steer well clear of the models with flaky GPU's. Problem with the 2015 is people are asking far too much thx to the disastrous 2016 redesign with auto fail keyboards.

Problem with Apple's liquid sensors is they can also be tripped by high humidity, given I live in the sub tropics and frequently work in the tropics is just another negative for the brand. Again something that Apple is likely all to well aware of but see's no reason to resolve.

Problem for me was the slow progression of the Mac, poor design philosophy & reliability for a purported professional notebook all at premium pricing and Apple's attitude of take it or leave it, so we opted for the latter. To me the MBP peaked around 2012, with the best old style unibody and the new Retina, I retained a few for use around the home; 12" rMB, 2014 13" MBP, 2012 15" MBP, the infamous 2011 15" and I also have an ancient 2008 15" that still runs.

Mostly the 13" is serving up video, my youngest was using the 2012 15" for school at home thx to COVID-19. The 12" rMB is just an archive for and old email server that's now redundant. The 2011 15" I keep on the desk and again use for video content (no external display) if I'm working on the Windows systems and want something in the background.

The Classic 2008 15" I did want to restore, however it needs a new bottom case, top deck, battery, another set of fans. So retrospectively it not worth sinking so much into a 12 year old machine that has pretty limited use.

The 2011 15" would still be very usable thx to it's quad core i7 processor, if not reasonably potent as it holds a solid 3.1GHz across all cores under full load. just needing an SSD and a new battery, equally it could also detonate it's dGPU at any given time and I have significantly more performant hardware on the Windows side, so it will likely remain stock.

Q-6
 
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I would probably consider seven years the maximum economical life for a MBP. That is the point when it will be considered obsolete by Apple and you no longer get spare parts or repairs. I am a bit surprised with the amount people seem to be willing to pay for a 2015 given that it may only have two years left of its life.

Personally I have to write the MBP off as investments over five years so I tend to use a new machine for 3 years as the primary and then as a backup for another 3 years. But I make my living from that computer so the cost of replacing it is just a small part of my business expenses.

If you finance with your own funds I can understand that things may play out differently.

Before moving to Mac I had a long line of Thinkpads (X and T-line). I do think the MBP "ages" much better. My Thinkpads were generally completely shot after two years of traveling with broken hinges and cracked chassis. My MBP have looked almost new after the same time.
 
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I bought one and it died two months later. I held onto it for a while looking into potential remediations and eventually tossed it. Lesson learned - there is risk in used machines. I went out and bought a used 2015 and it's been a reliable workhorse. Know your years and models if you want to buy used equipment. My 2008 MacBook Pro died in 2018 - ten years -that's what I expect out of my 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros. But they've already paid me back in productivity. So no tears if they die at any point. I want a 16 anyways. Just can't justify it now.
 
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I would probably consider seven years the maximum economical life for a MBP. That is the point when it will be considered obsolete by Apple and you no longer get spare parts or repairs. I am a bit surprised with the amount people seem to be willing to pay for a 2015 given that it may only have two years left of its life.

Personally I have to write the MBP off as investments over five years so I tend to use a new machine for 3 years as the primary and then as a backup for another 3 years. But I make my living from that computer so the cost of replacing it is just a small part of my business expenses.

If you finance with your own funds I can understand that things may play out differently.

Before moving to Mac I had a long line of Thinkpads (X and T-line). I do think the MBP "ages" much better. My Thinkpads were generally completely shot after two years of traveling with broken hinges and cracked chassis. My MBP have looked almost new after the same time.

Generally switch out around 24 months of usage as no point to hang onto them too long as they get hammered. Some I'll hold onto for personal use or gift to a family member. My ThinkPad's have always held up well, equally not used one in anger in around 7 years. 2011 15" impresses as it really has held up very well from a build quality perspective, seeing off some newer Retina's that developed loose hinges.

Similar the notebooks are intrinsic to my work, so the cost isn't really an issue more the reliability, as last thing I need when in the field on an engineering project is a flaky computer. Most these days are reasonably reliable, just need to research a spot to avoid the odd ones that are problematic.

Good point on the 2015's as there's little the user can do in the event of a failure and Apple wont touch in a couple of years.

Q-6
 
The 15" MBP has a long history of design issues/problems, some models are OK, however it certainly pays to do some research and steer well clear of the models with flaky GPU's. Problem with the 2015 is people are asking far too much thx to the disastrous 2016 redesign with auto fail keyboards.

Problem with Apple's liquid sensors is they can also be tripped by high humidity, given I live in the sub tropics and frequently work in the tropics is just another negative for the brand. Again something that Apple is likely all to well aware of but see's no reason to resolve.
The integrated-only (IG) models seem very reliable. They have all the legacy ports, a Retina display, no stupid touch bar, no "MacBook Pro" logo on the bezels, and the holy scissor switch keys…it seems like a perfect machine.

I can't find a 15" MBP (2015 IG) anywhere. My budget is ~€1,000…I thought it would've been enough. People want €2K for a laptop that's 5 years old – and that's for the dual graphics model. I'd rather the integrated-only model which is nowhere to be seen…2015 15" MBP 2.5/8 GHz i7 is such a rare Mac.
And I really need >512 GB storage, so the base 2.2 GHz model would only work if it was CTO from 256 to 512

Pre-2012 Macs don't support Catalina. 2016-2019 Macs have a sh*tty keyboard. Retina 2012-15 Macs still have problems, and 2015 is the only Retina Mac with a Force Touch trackpad, bigger battery too.

I went out and bought a used 2015 and it's been a reliable workhorse. Know your years and models if you want to buy used equipment. My 2008 MacBook Pro died in 2018 - ten years -that's what I expect out of my 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros. But they've already paid me back in productivity. So no tears if they die at any point. I want a 16 anyways. Just can't justify it now.
Ming-Chi Kuo says not till 2021 because they can't source mini-LED display panels. I don't know what to believe, I would've caved in for the 16 inch if it came out this summer.

I actually want a 14" model, with the maxed out 16" graphics card inside. Get rid of the bezels, the logo, add Face ID, stop the pretentious USB-C dongle life and add some legacy ports, thicken it up – and boom! – 4K 60fps GTA V on a tiny laptop, Bootcamp of course
 
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The integrated-only (IG) models seem very reliable. They have all the legacy ports, a Retina display, no stupid touch bar, no "MacBook Pro" logo on the bezels, and the holy scissor switch keys…it seems like a perfect machine.

I can't find a 15" MBP (2015 IG) anywhere. My budget is ~€1,000…I thought it would've been enough. People want €2K for a laptop that's 5 years old – and that's for the dual graphics model. I'd rather the integrated-only model which is nowhere to be seen…2015 15" MBP 2.5/8 GHz i7 is such a rare Mac.
And I really need >512 GB storage, so the base 2.2 GHz model would only work if it was CTO from 256 to 512

Pre-2012 Macs don't support Catalina. 2016-2019 Macs have a sh*tty keyboard. Retina 2012-15 Macs still have problems, and 2015 is the only Retina Mac with a Force Touch trackpad, bigger battery too.

Just the market, equally vastly overpriced IMO. Admittedly the 2015 MBP was an excellent notebook, personally I regret not picking up a couple as opposed waiting on the 2016 dumpster fire which was an instant no sale. I guess you'll need to exercise patience until the right one comes up.

You could always pick up a 13" to tide you over, I've still got a 2014 (2.8 i5, 8GB, 512 SSD) and it still performs reasonably well for a duel core. I'd imagine that the 2015 13" would be far more common versus the 15"

Q-6
 
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The integrated-only (IG) models seem very reliable. They have all the legacy ports, a Retina display, no stupid touch bar, no "MacBook Pro" logo on the bezels, and the holy scissor switch keys…it seems like a perfect machine.

I can't find a 15" MBP (2015 IG) anywhere. My budget is ~€1,000…I thought it would've been enough. People want €2K for a laptop that's 5 years old – and that's for the dual graphics model. I'd rather the integrated-only model which is nowhere to be seen…2015 15" MBP 2.5/8 GHz i7 is such a rare Mac.
And I really need >512 GB storage, so the base 2.2 GHz model would only work if it was CTO from 256 to 512

Pre-2012 Macs don't support Catalina. 2016-2019 Macs have a sh*tty keyboard. Retina 2012-15 Macs still have problems, and 2015 is the only Retina Mac with a Force Touch trackpad, bigger battery too.


Ming-Chi Kuo says not till 2021 because they can't source mini-LED display panels. I don't know what to believe, I would've caved in for the 16 inch if it came out this summer.

I actually want a 14" model, with the maxed out 16" graphics card inside. Get rid of the bezels, the logo, add Face ID, stop the pretentious USB-C dongle life and add some legacy ports, thicken it up – and boom! – 4K 60fps GTA V on a tiny laptop, Bootcamp of course

They're for sale in my area all the time. I just pulled up Craigslist and found this:


2015 15" 2.5 Ghz, 512 GB, $850. Owner says it's in excellent shape.
 
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They're for sale in my area all the time. I just pulled up Craigslist and found this:


2015 15" 2.5 Ghz, 512 GB, $850. Owner says it's in excellent shape.
I live in Dublin, Ireland – and use Euro (€) :(
$850 is €773…even if it was €850, that's such a good deal! It's too far…that sucks.
I was looking for Integrated Graphics only due to fear of dGPU failure…but that would've been a good deal.

I know Apple's US prices are way less than here, so that's probably why it's a low price.
We have Apple's Europe, Middle East, & Africa HQ in Ireland – but not even an Apple Store.
They owe €14bn in taxes to Ireland but it's cool…our government would cry if you left

Edit: This is a European (ISO) enter key. I learnt that American (ANSI) one, is a rectangle.
ISO Enter Key.pngI don't know…the ISO key feels more ergonomic for a pinkie key strike
 
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I live in Dublin, Ireland – and use Euro (€) :(
$850 is €773…even if it was €850, that's such a good deal! It's too far…that sucks.
I was looking for Integrated Graphics only due to fear of dGPU failure…but that would've been a good deal.

I know Apple's US prices are way less than here, so that's probably why it's a low price.
We have Apple's Europe, Middle East, & Africa HQ in Ireland – but not even an Apple Store.
They owe €14bn in taxes to Ireland but it's cool…our government would cry if you left

Edit: This is a European (ISO) enter key. I learnt that American (ANSI) one, is a rectangle.
I don't know…the ISO key feels more ergonomic for a pinkie key strike

Yes, ANSI keyboards have a rectangular enter key, like all you become accustomed to the KB layout pretty quickly. As for pricing I personally wouldn't pay more than $500 for such an old notebook with limited support. Admittedly my model is very different as the computers are work tools that pay for themselves so I purchase new and replace fairly frequently, as the cost of downtime is far greater.

Q-6
 
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I did end up buying a 2017 12" macbook... I'll get it next week. I know, it's not the best choice, but like I said, 13" was too big, and I didn't want the 2015 11". Mine has a warranty till May 2021, so that means keyboard will have the exchange program for another three years after that. Enough time for me to sell it for another one when Apple finally comes to its senses and releases a new 11" macbook.
Can't wait to try the new baby.
My 2012 15" is fine, it's definitely a lot quicker now that the SSD is inside but I really feel the 4Gb ram. I'm getting a 16Gb upgrade soon. I was considering trying to put the 10600 ram from the 17" 2011 inside, as some people said it might work, but it's corsair ram, I guess I can get a fair price out of this one and buy ram that's really compatible (12800).
 
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I think $850 is a bit much for a 2015 computer...
I paid $330 for my 2012. I wouldn't have paid a dollar more. The battery was new (but the battery is ****, as I noticed already, I'm getting about 2h on it, probably some chinese $20 from aliexpress. maybe calibration was off, I don't know. Right now I haven't really worked on it, haven't had that much time. I'll see to it next week). It's an i7 quad core 2.3ghz.
I paid $760 for my "almost brand new" 2017 macbook 12" with 14 cycles on the battery. It's the basic model with 1.2Ghz, 256Gb SSD and 8Gb ram. I made the hard choice to buy that one for the same price as the 1.4ghz (same ssd and ram) which had 250 cycles on the battery and no warranty because I wanted the battery life and a warranty on the keyboard. It will be a writing computer so I guess the processor speed is not really relevant here.
I'll probably end up getting tired of the 2012 next year and getting myself a 2018 15" or something. We'll see. Next week, if I have time, I'll try the software hack on the macbook 2011, but I'll need to clone my drive first. I have Catalina on the HD from the 15", not sure the software hack for the dGPU handles that one.
 
I ended up using my spare HD and after some trial and error (mostly failing because I tried following these instructions : http://dosdude1.com/gpudisable/ The program completly messed up my computer and it became unusable. I had to perform a full fresh install of the OS. I did try it on El Capitan, maybe it was too old and not compatible, I don't know) I managed to get my MBP 17" back to life, with a brand new High Sierra install, integrated GPU only, screen brightness and sleep mode working (at least for now).
It now starts in verbose mode (I can change that but I like it because I can see right away if there's a problem) and appart from the fact that it seems to be looking for a kext for a few seconds, everything looks fine. All systems are a go :)

I don't know yet what I'll do with this computer. I was planning to sell it for parts but I like it too much :/
If you're interested, here are the instructions I followed and that worked : https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ed-gpu-efi-variable-fix.2037591/post-24956091
 
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I ended up using my spare HD and after some trial and error (mostly failing because I tried following these instructions : http://dosdude1.com/gpudisable/ The program completly messed up my computer and it became unusable. I had to perform a full fresh install of the OS. I did try it on El Capitan, maybe it was too old and not compatible, I don't know) I managed to get my MBP 17" back to life, with a brand new High Sierra install, integrated GPU only, screen brightness and sleep mode working (at least for now).
It now starts in verbose mode (I can change that but I like it because I can see right away if there's a problem) and appart from the fact that it seems to be looking for a kext for a few seconds, everything looks fine. All systems are a go :)

I don't know yet what I'll do with this computer. I was planning to sell it for parts but I like it too much :/
If you're interested, here are the instructions I followed and that worked : https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ed-gpu-efi-variable-fix.2037591/post-24956091

Good to see you revived the 17" is probably as good as it gets without professional repair, which I suspect would be hard to come by these days. My own 2011 15" remains to soldier on, it's dGPU is active however very limited to when it can activate to preserve the chip. Battery life is really starting to plummet so suspect it's close to end of life. As long as it doesn't swell I'm not overly concerned. If I do replace will be with the cheapest I can source, it's just a lottery now if you can come across a genuine Apple battery, given they are pushing 9 years...

The 12" MacBook will be adequate for creating documents and the difference between the 1.2GHz & 1.4GHz negligible, better to have the warranty IMO with this model.

Q-6
 
Yep, the 17" is still alive! I finally made up my mind and decided to sell it, I’ll put up an add this week, selling it as only partially working and only to somebody who knows their way around a computer. The person needs to be able to launch the scripts I saved in case they decide like a moron to upgrade the system or to do nvram (this one might be necessary at some point and unavoidable).
I really hesitated and considered reselling the 15" 2012 I just acquired, but to be realistic, I need the external screen to get the cintiq to work and the bypass renders the thunderbolt port unoperable.
I’m still a bit pissed about the hidden defect thing, probably being the only person on the French forum who got rejected with a computer which had a faulty CGU and was purchased in France (some were rejected because the fault was with the motherboard, and some bought the macs in Switzerland, where the law doesn’t apply). I guess I’m just not lucky that way. I never am, I don’t even know why I thought this time would be different ^^ let’s hope the tiny mb 12" won’t fail on me too soon. To be safe I’ll make sure to sell it right before the 5 years Keyboard warranty expire ^^ you never know...
 
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Maybe end of days is coming, took way long time to boot out of hibernation, total black screen & KB blacked out. Finally got it into the GUI seems OK again. Busy decompressing a ton of files and seems to be OK @ 8.7 years young and earning it's keep in a small way...

Q-6
 
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My 17" is gone. A friend bought it from me, he’s a computer expert so that’s reassuring, he won’t ever have problems with the script for the graphic card.
The battery on my 15" might be dead or maybe it’s my adapter, I don’t know and since I noticed that right after I sent the 17" away with my spare 85W brick, I’m stuck in the unknown ^^
It says “battery not charging”, it’s stuck at 0%, does see the battery, but yeah, SMC reset and leaving it forever on the power supply haven’t done anything.
To use it I’m forced to disconnect the battery, otherwise it goes to 900% kernel task CPU and it’s unusable.
I’ll try getting another 85W brick to test it. It’s always good to have a spare anyway. I had four and I sold most of them when my computer died. I figured, what’s the point. Ahahah. Too bad it doesn’t run on MagSafe 2 45W, I have at least 5 of them.

@Queen6, is your Mac still alive?
 
My 17" is gone. A friend bought it from me, he’s a computer expert so that’s reassuring, he won’t ever have problems with the script for the graphic card.
The battery on my 15" might be dead or maybe it’s my adapter, I don’t know and since I noticed that right after I sent the 17" away with my spare 85W brick, I’m stuck in the unknown ^^
It says “battery not charging”, it’s stuck at 0%, does see the battery, but yeah, SMC reset and leaving it forever on the power supply haven’t done anything.
To use it I’m forced to disconnect the battery, otherwise it goes to 900% kernel task CPU and it’s unusable.
I’ll try getting another 85W brick to test it. It’s always good to have a spare anyway. I had four and I sold most of them when my computer died. I figured, what’s the point. Ahahah. Too bad it doesn’t run on MagSafe 2 45W, I have at least 5 of them.

@Queen6, is your Mac still alive?

Yeah it's still good so far, be nice to see it eek out 10 years. I don't use it for anything critical, so if it dies no drama. Not sure if I'd fix it beyond a new battery and even then I'd source the cheapest.

Screen Shot 2020-07-05 at 12.51.35.png
Worth seeing if it just the charger, if not battery, worse the Logic Board :( I've a couple of the old 85W chargers which is useful, although one is from 2008

Q-6
 
Spoke too soon :( although the 2011 15" MBP is still soldiering on, the 2012 15" looks very much like it's dGPU has partially failed with the display pretty much totally scrambled. Going to have a dig into it, however certainly not worth considering to spend out on such an old and well used notebook.

Q-6
 
Spoke too soon :( although the 2011 15" MBP is still soldiering on, the 2012 15" looks very much like it's dGPU has partially failed with the display pretty much totally scrambled. Going to have a dig into it, however certainly not worth considering to spend out on such an old and well used notebook.
Life is too short not to splurge on a new reliable MacBook Pro to make life easier – so as soon as the new 16" MBP comes along, I'm getting it built-to-order with what I need. All the patching and compromising gets to be a pain, when you need a quality machine for work.
 
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Life is too short not to splurge on a new reliable MacBook Pro to make life easier – so as soon as the new 16" MBP comes along, I'm getting it built-to-order with what I need. All the patching and compromising gets to be a pain, when you need a quality machine for work.

I love using old equipment but there comes a time when it's either time to buy something new or a lot newer. We all need a reliable primary system and, ideally, a good backup system and older systems can go poof at any time.
 
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I was following up this tread since Nessdufrat opened it, and now I have a similar issue.
I have a late 2013 Macbook Pro 15" Retina (bought in 2014) , my fans have been always very loud. But one month ago two vertical lines appeared in the middle of the screen when i am using it more than 20-30 minutes. I know i have to change the thermal compound but it didn't want to open it cause i want apple to repare me the peeling off issue first.
The big problem is now the 2 cities in my region are confined and I can't go there (and the only Apple's official distributors are in the 2 cities). I called Apple to send my Macbook to repair but they said me they can´t because of it's more than 5 years old and they can´t see the the extension program of this model.
Any help? Apple told me I have no options to choose now.

 
I was following up this tread since Nessdufrat opened it, and now I have a similar issue.
I have a late 2013 Macbook Pro 15" Retina (bought in 2014) , my fans have been always very loud. But one month ago two vertical lines appeared in the middle of the screen when i am using it more than 20-30 minutes. I know i have to change the thermal compound but it didn't want to open it cause i want apple to repare me the peeling off issue first.
The big problem is now the 2 cities in my region are confined and I can't go there (and the only Apple's official distributors are in the 2 cities). I called Apple to send my Macbook to repair but they said me they can´t because of it's more than 5 years old and they can´t see the the extension program of this model.
Any help? Apple told me I have no options to choose now.


If replacement is not an option, I'd use an external display. That's what I did with my 2008 MBP 17 when the display went completely out. There are portable displays available now if you want to use it in a coffeeshop. I have 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros and would like to get ten years out of them but the truth is that they could go at any time. That's why I have two. If one goes, then I would use the other one and then have time to buy something new or more reliable.
 
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