MacBook Pro Repair Extension Program for Video Issues

[brandscill]

@hotmetal @brandscill Hi there, so I called Apple back this morning and after an hour of going through my case and me repeating all the reasons why I have not received a similar outcome to you guys they basically said that I can only get a different resolution if I get my own lawyers/solicitors involved (at my expense) to make a claim against their decision to not act upon the consumer law of a Replace or Refund outcome. I'm not allowed to contact them myself.

When I asked Apple what were the reasons given from the lawyers to refuse my claim, he suggested that it was because I had never complained about the issue in the last 4years.
Obviously I then retorted back to them that as my applecare had expired and the fault was very intermittent I thought it would cost me just to call Apple for any help as I have never used them before and just presumed any support given would come at an even futher cost to me, so just put up with it crashing every now and then.
Plus as I was using it for 16hrs+ a day I just thought it might have been overheating and was a simple fan issue.

The support guy also suggested that even though you had both been given better outcomes from legal thus far it was most likely because you had probably complained or had your laptops in for diagnostics checks prior to the December 2016 cut-off of the repair program, is that correct?
Where'as my first complaint and then diagnostics check wasn't until February 7th regardless of the fact I have proof (crashplan reports) that it had stopped working since early December.

So essentially there's no point me contacting technical support/applecare anymore their lawyers decision is final.
I can only go via a civil action claim or try and find some sort of 'ambulance chaser' solicitors that may give me some free advice or even want to take on a corporate bigwig on my behalf, and all the usually free government ombudsmans and trading standards can't help either.

Okay so it has worked for 5years but with the known manufacturing fault apparent it feels as I've been sold a machine with it's very own built in obsolescence.

I really am just utterly bereft that they are refusing to honour a better outcome.
I don't have any lawyers amongst my friends and family to get expert advice from so any further action is going to mean my pockets emptying!!!!

This is truly ridiculous. The legal basis for a consumer law claim is an issue that can be proven to be present at the time of manufacturing exhibiting itself within 6 years from the purchase date. There is nothing more to it and I can't believe they won't talk to you any further without legal representation.

You should see how much it would cost to take them to the small claims court, it can be as little as £25 and you don't need legal representation.

I'm also going to message you the contact details of my case handler as he was very good.

 

[hotmetal]

Oh no it really sounds like they've dug their heels in. It may be the 'early 2011' vs 'late 2011' and not having parts or the Feb date being well beyond the 31 Dec cutoff. Real shame. As I still don't have mine back (Stormfront are trying to sort out who will fund the faulty screen) I may still be in almost the same boat as you. In fact, it occurred to me since reading this, that Stormfront may be trying to help me get my mac back to how it should be, but it might also make Apple feel less charitable towards me - which I hadn't considered when the tech suggested I send in my purchase receipt. Up to a point I think 5 years isn't a bad life span for a work computer (given changes in tech during that time etc) but I'm still not in a position to replace it for a few months so, like you, I really hope it can be got running again , even if I accept that I will replace it in 9-12 months time anyway. Sorry to hear how it's been for you though.

 

[rawweb]

@hotmetal @brandscill Hi there, so I called Apple back this morning and after an hour of going through my case and me repeating all the reasons why I have not received a similar outcome to you guys they basically said that I can only get a different resolution if I get my own lawyers/solicitors involved (at my expense) to make a claim against their decision to not act upon the consumer law of a Replace or Refund outcome. I'm not allowed to contact them myself.

When I asked Apple what were the reasons given from the lawyers to refuse my claim, he suggested that it was because I had never complained about the issue in the last 4years.
Obviously I then retorted back to them that as my applecare had expired and the fault was very intermittent I thought it would cost me just to call Apple for any help as I have never used them before and just presumed any support given would come at an even futher cost to me, so just put up with it crashing every now and then.
Plus as I was using it for 16hrs+ a day I just thought it might have been overheating and was a simple fan issue.

The support guy also suggested that even though you had both been given better outcomes from legal thus far it was most likely because you had probably complained or had your laptops in for diagnostics checks prior to the December 2016 cut-off of the repair program, is that correct?
Where'as my first complaint and then diagnostics check wasn't until February 7th regardless of the fact I have proof (crashplan reports) that it had stopped working since early December.

So essentially there's no point me contacting technical support/applecare anymore their lawyers decision is final.
I can only go via a civil action claim or try and find some sort of 'ambulance chaser' solicitors that may give me some free advice or even want to take on a corporate bigwig on my behalf, and all the usually free government ombudsmans and trading standards can't help either.

Okay so it has worked for 5years but with the known manufacturing fault apparent it feels as I've been sold a machine with it's very own built in obsolescence.

I really am just utterly bereft that they are refusing to honour a better outcome.
I don't have any lawyers amongst my friends and family to get expert advice from so any further action is going to mean my pockets emptying!!!!

Not trying to be 'that guy', but 5 1/2 years of 16+ hour days is a lot on a mobile device. It sounds like you got your moneys worth, then some.

I had a 17" go down in 2015. They took unbelievable care of me. For no real reason, they replaced the screen, top case, logic board, power board...everything except the bottom case. It's like I got a brand new computer. It was in such incredible shape I sold it right away. Is there a particular reason you didn't make a claim prior to the new year? IMO, Apple was pretty generous to offer the program as long as they did. I think you'd be challenged to find better support from competitors. In full disclosure, I'm not completely familiar with the consumer laws of your country. But if it's 6 years from the date of purchase, I think you have something. BUT...is lawyering up a smart idea to try and convince a court to repair a 6 year old machine? Would that money be better spent just ponying up for a replacement? I guess that's the real question.

All that said, I know you're just past the cut off and that can be maddening. You feel like you got ripped off. Unfortunately, that's life sometimes. I hope this works out for you one way or another and you get the resolution you're seeking.

 

[brandscill]

Not trying to be 'that guy', but 5 1/2 years of 16+ hour days is a lot on a mobile device. It sounds like you got your moneys worth, then some.

I had a 17" go down in 2015. They took unbelievable care of me. For no real reason, they replaced the screen, top case, logic board, power board...everything except the bottom case. It's like I got a brand new computer. It was in such incredible shape I sold it right away. Is there a particular reason you didn't make a claim prior to the new year? IMO, Apple was pretty generous to offer the program as long as they did. I think you'd be challenged to find better support from competitors. In full disclosure, I'm not completely familiar with the consumer laws of your country. But if it's 6 years from the date of purchase, I think you have something there. BUT...is lawyering up a smart idea to try and convince a court to repair a 6 year old machine? IMO, no...but your laws might be structured to help you?

All that said, I know you're just past the cut off and that can be maddening. You feel like you got ripped off. Unfortunately, that's life sometimes. I hope this works out for you one way or another.

I agree with most of what you say but the UK law is clear and should be honoured by all UK retailers, it's not a pick and chose situation.

Additionally, if Apple contacted all owners of those devices, especially those purchased direct with Apple that would have been what I would call well advertised.

You'd only learn about a program once you need it and even then only if you know where to look.

 

[rawweb]

I agree with most of what you say but the UK law is clear and should be honoured by all UK retailers, it's not a pick and chose situation.

Additionally, if Apple contacted all owners of those devices, especially those purchased direct with Apple that would have been what I would call well advertised.

You'd only learn about a program once you need it and even then only if you know where to look.

Those are very good points, I agree completely.

 

[theGreyeyeGemini]

Not trying to be 'that guy', but 5 1/2 years of 16+ hour days is a lot on a mobile device. It sounds like you got your moneys worth, then some.

I say "work" I really meant it was powered up for that amount of time in a day, and should add frequently shut the lid to sleepmode within that time.
I only used it to search the internet, light photoshop work to create invoices and to backup my iphone.
As I backed up any music/photo content directly to portable drives and off-site to crashplan so it had very minimal use really and the hard drive was barely a 1/4 full.
Plus even though it's a mobile device I rarely took it out of the home, I consider it still pretty heavy for little'ol me.

All that said, I know you're just past the cut off and that can be maddening. You feel like you got ripped off.

Yeh it feels like I brought a MBP with a built-in obsolescence

thanks for all your responses, like I said to @brandscill and @hotmetal, all the support on here truly is comforting.

 

[rawweb]

I say "work" I really meant it was powered up for that amount of time in a day, and should add frequently shut the lid to sleepmode within that time.
I only used it to search the internet, light photoshop work to create invoices and to backup my iphone.
As I backed up any music/photo content directly to portable drives and off-site to crashplan so it had very minimal use really and the hard drive was barely a 1/4 full.
Plus even though it's a mobile device I rarely took it out of the home, I consider it still pretty heavy for little'ol me.



Yeh it feels like I brought a MBP with a built-in obsolescence

thanks for all your responses, like I said to @brandscill and @hotmetal, all the support on here truly is comforting.

You use your machine no different than I do. It is clearly a well identified fault of the model. I hope you continue to press on this and go ahead with legal action as you are clearly well within your right based on your laws.

 

[Twimfy]

I recently paid quite a bit of cash for a Early 2011 17". I've been wanting one for a while. Only after I bought it did I become aware of the video issues that plague them which has made be horrendously paranoid.

Looking at it, it appears the logic board in mine was replaced at some point (you can tell because you get a brief glitch during boot up). Either way I applied new thermal paste and gave it a thorough clean.

Anyway I've had no problems so far and hopefully it stays that way but I have noticed something interesting with the 10.12.4 beta's. They seem to perform SMC changes on my model (version no has changed) and since then there have there are no more boot glitches. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I think the machine may be running on IGFX on boot, no dGPU.

Has anyone got a sure fire way of finding out (verbose boot perhaps?) so I can confirm this?

 

[Sanpete]

Looking at it, it appears the logic board in mine was replaced at some point (you can tell because you get a brief glitch during boot up).

Not an indication of a replaced logic board. Probably was software related, since it went away with the update.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

I recently paid quite a bit of cash for a Early 2011 17". I've been wanting one for a while. Only after I bought it did I become aware of the video issues that plague them which has made be horrendously paranoid.

Looking at it, it appears the logic board in mine was replaced at some point (you can tell because you get a brief glitch during boot up). Either way I applied new thermal paste and gave it a thorough clean.

Anyway I've had no problems so far and hopefully it stays that way but I have noticed something interesting with the 10.12.4 beta's. They seem to perform SMC changes on my model (version no has changed) and since then there have there are no more boot glitches. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I think the machine may be running on IGFX on boot, no dGPU.

Has anyone got a sure fire way of finding out (verbose boot perhaps?) so I can confirm this?

That glitch is normal for 10.10 OS and newer and is all on Apple for poor drivers. Has nothing to do with whether the board was refurbed or not.

 

[theGreyeyeGemini]

A very upsetting update, got a call from an Executive Relations guy at Apple this morning, after I sent a "Letter before Civil Claim" to the Apple lawyers 2wks ago.
Absolutely won't replace or refund even though I was still within my Consumer Law rights and my only source of action is to spend crazymoney on a civil action lawsuit or find more people on here and group together to create a class action suit.
Although as it is becoming very apparent to me everyone on here has all either had new MBP's or repairs outside of the deadline, so I've no clue what to do next.

 

[brandscill]

A very upsetting update, got a call from an Executive Relations guy at Apple this morning, after I sent a "Letter before Civil Claim" to the Apple lawyers 2wks ago.
Absolutely won't replace or refund even though I was still within my Consumer Law rights and my only source of action is to spend crazymoney on a civil action lawsuit or find more people on here and group together to create a class action suit.
Although as it is becoming very apparent to me everyone on here has all either had new MBP's or repairs outside of the deadline, so I've no clue what to do next.

Do they even explain why or their reasoning for denying what appears to be a 100% legal consumer law claim?

 

[maflynn]

Do they even explain why or their reasoning for denying what appears to be a 100% legal consumer law claim?

This is the reasons

action is to spend crazymoney

Lawyers are not stupid, they're willing to fight you in court, even if they know they're wrong. They astutely understand that most consumers do not have the resources to continue that sort of fight.

 

[hotmetal]

Sorry to hear that Donna, it seems ridiculous. The cost to Apple (trillion dollar megacorp) is trivial, the Goodwill it would generate is immense, and it makes them look mean to anyone who reads this.

 

[brandscill]

This is the reasons


Lawyers are not stupid, they're willing to fight you in court, even if they know they're wrong. They astutely understand that most consumers do not have the resources to continue that sort of fight.

In the UK the resources for a hearing at the small claims court are minimal and ultimately the facts are the facts. The product stopped working before the end of the 6 year period due to a known and admitted manufacturing fault. A judge wouldn't look kindly on a company trying to avoid their legal obligations regardless of how willing to fight it they are. Unless Apple can suddenly prove that this MBP unlike the rest was made differently and therefore it was impossible for fault to be present at the time of manufacturing then I don't see what's different to the claim that I and many others have made.

 

[theGreyeyeGemini]

Do they even explain why or their reasoning for denying what appears to be a 100% legal consumer law claim?

I've asked them multiple times they always say that because I never reported a fault before this GPU Video failure that I wasn't elegible to any further outcome other than to take them to court, even though I was well within my 6yrs for a consumer law claim.

....like @maflynn said they're just hoping I'll give up the fight and spend sillymoney on more of their product, which is very unlikely after this bitter pill!!

Sorry to hear that Donna, it seems ridiculous. The cost to Apple (trillion dollar megacorp) is trivial, the Goodwill it would generate is immense, and it makes them look mean to anyone who reads this.

yep and I've been a loyal customer since the ibook toilet seat days, also still have Mac Pro G4, iphones, 13" powerbook g4, and the useless 17". They've lost this customer now.

 

[theGreyeyeGemini]

this is absolutely laughable.... can you believe this,
the Executive Relations guy (Kashif Jamil) that called me on Friday to tell me to essentially 'clear off' just called me back this morning to offer me a rediculously small refund for the logicboard part of $259 US dollars (he couldn't even be jeffed to convert it and tell me in GBpounds).

Now we all know on here that the logic board essentially is the most expensive part of a MBP, so this is crazy talk. Even on a basic search online for that part, new (17" early 2011, A1297) they are listed as being between $640 to over a Grand. Even pointless used ones are on fleabay for upwards of £700!

What's even more concerning and upsetting is I'm literally being laughed at, I could hear they're colleagues chuckling in the background at my calm but knowledgable (thanks @brandscill) consumer law replies, especially when I told him he had to send the reason in writing to me so my solicitor can act on the refusal for a replacement or full refund.
I recorded the whole call (they record me so why not). In fact I have all my conversations since they started giving me the runaround weeks ago.

Not sure why he changed his mind over the weekend, as he was adamant in giving me nothing and wasn't very friendly on the Friday, but nonetheless I refused his offer and said I'll be making a civil claim.

 

[tryrtryrtryrt]

Not sure why he changed his mind over the weekend, as he was adamant in giving me nothing and wasn't very friendly on the Friday, but nonetheless I refused his offer and said I'll be making a civil claim.

Because if you win (and I'm quite sure you will) and post results here, this could trigger some unwanted consequences for Apple at least throughout EU.

 

[AppleMacFinder]

People, why you don't just use this solution - https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ntel-integrated-gpu-efi-variable-fix.2037591/
TL,DR : this will disable your discrete GPU permanently and you will be able to use integrated graphics only,
but your MBP will be working OK - no discrete graphics though, but still more useful than 5 lbs paperweight...

I personally tested this software solution for about 3 weeks and can confirm that it is working perfectly
(no unexpected freezes or kernel panics)
Hopefully you could fix your expensive pro macbooks this way, I wish you all the best

 

[theGreyeyeGemini]

Because if you win (and I'm quite sure you will) and post results here, this could trigger some unwanted consequences for Apple at least throughout EU.

Yep your so right, didn't even think about that onward effect, just little ol'me getting the confidence from you lovely guys on here to not back down on this unsatisfactory outcome.
All they keep saying is because I never complained in the 'just over' 5yrs of owning it or at the time of the repair program (which I was unaware of) I'm not eligible for a consumer claim, but as @brandscill has been my superstar and repeatedly made me aware of it's actually 6yrs to honour a repair, replace or refund outcome under the Sales of Goods Act.
I also think the fact the repair program was released is them 'banged to rights' in admitting these models have been sold faulty or in other terms with 'built in obsolescence'!

People, why you don't just use this solution - https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ntel-integrated-gpu-efi-variable-fix.2037591/
...

Hey there, thanks yeh I did see your thread a week ago as a solution but all that programming is a little over my head, just the terminology scares the bejeesus out of me!
I'll more likely just take out the barely full Hard Drive and case it into a portable drive. I back-up to crashplan and a drobo unit too so I've not lost any files just a working MBP.

 

[tryrtryrtryrt]

I also think the fact the repair program was released is them 'banged to rights' in admitting these models have been sold faulty or in other terms with 'built in obsolescence'!

I believe this is the key fact. Had there been no official replacement program, you'll lose a lot of time proving it was faulty initially. You could've still proved it eventually but not worth it IMHO. In current situation the case is quite simple IMHO. Again, not a solicitor, not one who frequents small claims courts, just your fellow UK resident who have read and (hopefully) understood the legislations.

 

[theGreyeyeGemini]

@tryrtryrtryrt thanks for your support. I too have never been one to frequent small claims courts and find it very daunting, but I'm not going to back down on this.

I've also contacted BBC Radio 4's consumer programme 'You and Yours' and BBC1 Watchdog TV show who are very interested in the fact that it was a 'known fault' story, but are also confused as to why my Consumer Law Claim didn't get a positive outcome unlike others on here. So just waiting to hear back from their researchers now.

As my case is logged with Apple only 5wks after the 'repair program' finished I can sit back and play the long game on this, but I'm definitely not resting on my laurels, already made that shocking mistake when I didn't contact them with the startup issue before the deadline in Dec where's the severely kicking myself emoji, should fill this page with that!!

 

[brandscill]

@tryrtryrtryrt thanks for your support. I too have never been one to frequent small claims courts and find it very daunting, but I'm not going to back down on this.

I've also contacted BBC Radio 4's consumer programme 'You and Yours' and BBC1 Watchdog TV show who are very interested in the fact that it was a 'known fault' story, but are also confused as to why my Consumer Law Claim didn't get a positive outcome unlike others on here. So just waiting to hear back from their researchers now.

As my case is logged with Apple only 5wks after the 'repair program' finished I can sit back and play the long game on this, but I'm definitely not resting on my laurels, already made that shocking mistake when I didn't contact them with the startup issue before the deadline in Dec where's the severely kicking myself emoji, should fill this page with that!!

Glad to hear your fighting this. Apple need to abide by the laws of the countries they operate it and not pick and chose how it works.

 

[tryrtryrtryrt]

Glad to hear your fighting this. Apple need to abide by the laws of the countries they operate it and not pick and chose how it works.

Well, I'll take it a little further: Apple should make effing goddamn working machines worth the money they ask! Then these laws mostly won't matter.

 

[Sanpete]

Well, I'll take it a little further: Apple should make effing goddamn working machines worth the money they ask! Then these laws mostly won't matter.

Yeah, why do people make machines that have problems? I don't get that.