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MacBook Pro Speed Bump
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zync
macrumors 68000
First I must say that you are quite contradictory. "It's not broken if it still works." That's a brilliant statement by the way.
Your original macintosh was not DESIGNED to play DVD's or get on the internet. It still performs the functions it was designed for! 486's are not designed to run the latest versions of word processing or financial applications; they do however run early versions—which were available at the time of their design—quite well. I never said 486's were not obsolete. What I did say is that according to your argument they are because you originally said:
Emphasis, which obviously leads to your next statement, is mine.
You agreed that outdating regularly occurs in a day and yet a six month old PowerBook G4 is not obsolete? Even though it is six months old, has been replaced by MBPs with immensely different processors, and is no longer produced? Maybe you're trying to say that MBPs are not the descendants of PowerBooks?
Your own definition of obsolete uses outdated as one half of what defines obsolescence. As a student of English, I understand that the term obsolete does not have to imply that the item in question is really old and unused, but instead outdated by something newer.
I understand the "nuances" between connotation and denotation. However if a guy uses a word with the correct denotation to prove his point—as the original poster did—we have no right to jump all over him. According to the English language, of which I most certainly am a student of, his MBP was obsolete. You guys just want to jump on him for complaining and so you tell him "it's not obsolete, it still functions." Obsolete, as far as connotation even goes, does not imply something that does not function. Obsolete, implies, in all its various uses, that it is an object that still functions and is no longer produced, ie. it works and its old/outdated, just as you said before. If you'd pay attention you'd realize that I just used your own definition.
Also, as a studio art major, crimson and cardinal are FAR from being the same shade, and the dictionary agrees, defining cardinal as the red of the bird and crimson as a deep red inclining toward the violet end of the spectrum.
And actually my Mustang is not obsolete. The car branded as the 2006 Mustang is not physically different from my own. All of the packages that the "current" Mustang has can be made to make my Mustang. It is still in production and has remained unchanged (as far as my specific model goes). If, in 2007, they change my Mustang to include a bigger engine—or a smaller and weaker one for that matter—my Mustang will become outdated, however I should hope that it still functions 😀
Maybe I don't understand English? After all you appear to be speaking it and yet you don't make any sense 😀
matticus008 said:
Your original macintosh was not DESIGNED to play DVD's or get on the internet. It still performs the functions it was designed for! 486's are not designed to run the latest versions of word processing or financial applications; they do however run early versions—which were available at the time of their design—quite well. I never said 486's were not obsolete. What I did say is that according to your argument they are because you originally said:
matticus008 said:
Emphasis, which obviously leads to your next statement, is mine.
matticus008 said:
You agreed that outdating regularly occurs in a day and yet a six month old PowerBook G4 is not obsolete? Even though it is six months old, has been replaced by MBPs with immensely different processors, and is no longer produced? Maybe you're trying to say that MBPs are not the descendants of PowerBooks?
Your own definition of obsolete uses outdated as one half of what defines obsolescence. As a student of English, I understand that the term obsolete does not have to imply that the item in question is really old and unused, but instead outdated by something newer.
matticus008 said:
I understand the "nuances" between connotation and denotation. However if a guy uses a word with the correct denotation to prove his point—as the original poster did—we have no right to jump all over him. According to the English language, of which I most certainly am a student of, his MBP was obsolete. You guys just want to jump on him for complaining and so you tell him "it's not obsolete, it still functions." Obsolete, as far as connotation even goes, does not imply something that does not function. Obsolete, implies, in all its various uses, that it is an object that still functions and is no longer produced, ie. it works and its old/outdated, just as you said before. If you'd pay attention you'd realize that I just used your own definition.
Also, as a studio art major, crimson and cardinal are FAR from being the same shade, and the dictionary agrees, defining cardinal as the red of the bird and crimson as a deep red inclining toward the violet end of the spectrum.
And actually my Mustang is not obsolete. The car branded as the 2006 Mustang is not physically different from my own. All of the packages that the "current" Mustang has can be made to make my Mustang. It is still in production and has remained unchanged (as far as my specific model goes). If, in 2007, they change my Mustang to include a bigger engine—or a smaller and weaker one for that matter—my Mustang will become outdated, however I should hope that it still functions 😀
Maybe I don't understand English? After all you appear to be speaking it and yet you don't make any sense 😀
zync
macrumors 68000
absurdio said:
This has already been explained, but the MBP has a separate graphics card while the MB does not. Generally what the MB has is called, more properly, integrated graphics.
Basically integrated graphics chipsets do not have their own RAM, and thus feed off of the system's main RAM. The processor also vies for this RAM, especially when the hard drive is used, and so integrated graphics are much slower than an independent card (or chipset in the case of Apple's laptops) that has it's own RAM.
Also, though I'm not entirely sure, integrated graphics processors also have to use the system's processor to get at main RAM, instead of an independent gpugraphics processing unitaccessing its own RAM.
The 15's (including the 1.8) are NOT obsolete! Not by any stretch of the imagination.
I don't agree with that definition of obsolete. Webster defines it as "no longer useful" which I think is more accurate. By that definition, a machine is only obsolete if it can't do the latest jobs. Just because something isn't the latest model doesn't make it obsolete. It just isn't the latest and greatest.
I don't agree with that definition of obsolete. Webster defines it as "no longer useful" which I think is more accurate. By that definition, a machine is only obsolete if it can't do the latest jobs. Just because something isn't the latest model doesn't make it obsolete. It just isn't the latest and greatest.
That magnetic latch on the new Macbook is all kinds of vogue. What are the chances that it will be added to the MBP when they switch to Merom?
bbrosemer
macrumors 6502a
This discussion of being Obselete is pointless. I think it is very fair to call some computers obselete... EX. If it cant connect to the internet then it is pretty obselete... If it can't play a CD then it is obselete... If it does not have a USB it is obselete.. The MBP will not be obselete until USB, Firewire, DVD's, CD's, and DVI are all obselete once all perpherials can no longer be used or a new OS can not be installed with the most fore front technology then the computer is obselete.
arsonata said:
I'm less optimistic than Diatribe. Of course, I'm also no 68030, so my suspicions may be of comparatively little value.
I was wondering the same thing, though. It IS pretty damn chic to not have all those ugly latches everywhere...
I'd be quite happy to see them pull it off.
I have my doubts, though. There were rumors of a new magnetic closure system well before the 17" MBPs came out...perhaps even before the 15" MBPs. If there were no technical troubles implementing that, why not include it on the Pros?
Some speculation:
1) It might be easier to get the magnetic closure system to work with/through the plastic case than with the aluminum.
2) Since the MB has no latch, it has no release button. instead, it seems to just have a little notch in the lower case to let you lift the lid. It seems like that sort of notch would be harder to build into an aluminum case than a plastic one (or at least harder to do it elegantly). If they do wind up using the magnetic "latch" on the next MBPs, i think they're gonna have to think of a different release than just the MB's little notch.
Another thought:
How likely is it that Apple will even do a significant revision/overhaul of the MBP when Merom comes out? I'm waiting for Merom half in the hopes that they DO make some revisions (like the magnetic latch) to the whole design of the MBP. But Apple has been doing a pretty good job of updating the line quietly. The Core Duo has been updated at least twice now without any revisions to the case/body/design of the MBPs...it seems at least possible to me that when Merom rolls around, the MBPs will stay the same design-wise and just contain a new processor.
Thoughts? Opinions?
I hope I'm wrong here. I'd rather like to see a REAL rev. B. Maybe they can get that top bezel a little thinner. Maybe they can get a DL superdrive in the 15" MBP. Or maybe a goddamn FW800.
How likely is it that Apple will even do a significant revision/overhaul of the MBP when Merom comes out? I'm waiting for Merom half in the hopes that they DO make some revisions (like the magnetic latch) to the whole design of the MBP. But Apple has been doing a pretty good job of updating the line quietly. The Core Duo has been updated at least twice now without any revisions to the case/body/design of the MBPs...it seems at least possible to me that when Merom rolls around, the MBPs will stay the same design-wise and just contain a new processor.
Thoughts? Opinions?
I hope I'm wrong here. I'd rather like to see a REAL rev. B. Maybe they can get that top bezel a little thinner. Maybe they can get a DL superdrive in the 15" MBP. Or maybe a goddamn FW800.
P.S. - thanks everyone who responded regarding graphics cards/units/processors. Much appreciated. Since Half Life 2 is about the only thing I want out of Windows, I guess I'm gonna have to keep coveting the MBPs instead of the MBs. Thanks, again.
btw, for those of you have been tracking, the low end MBP now beats the price of a similarly configured Dell Precision - even with the $150 standing dell rebate. $1999 vs $2085.
Of course battery life is different to be fair.
I havent fully checked the other 2 standard configs..
Of course battery life is different to be fair.
I havent fully checked the other 2 standard configs..
the drives
thanks. I did mention that I have no clue about the dvd burning world. So, just for my education, who should really care about DL drives? I'm guessing that since the most I plan to do with a dvd burner is to back up data and burn the little movies of my niece and other fun short home movies, a DL drive wouldn't be essential. Man, I need to go read up on this stuff.
So I can buy the 8x media and it will work fine in the 15"MBP?
And since I fear that MBPs will only have shiny screens once the rumored august major updates will occur, I think I'll buy now. I'm off to the apple store to salivate over the computer I want.😱
thanks. I did mention that I have no clue about the dvd burning world. So, just for my education, who should really care about DL drives? I'm guessing that since the most I plan to do with a dvd burner is to back up data and burn the little movies of my niece and other fun short home movies, a DL drive wouldn't be essential. Man, I need to go read up on this stuff.
So I can buy the 8x media and it will work fine in the 15"MBP?
And since I fear that MBPs will only have shiny screens once the rumored august major updates will occur, I think I'll buy now. I'm off to the apple store to salivate over the computer I want.😱
Diatribe said:
You know, some people might actually want to buy a glossy screen; for some, it may be very much worth it. Stop trolling and scaring people off!😡 🙄
Digidesign said:
Geesh, I hope so! A black anodized aluminium case would be so very, very cool.
MBP17 price drop??
I'm confused...I didn't see the price drop of the 17"mbp in the U.S. site. Can anybody tell me if the 17" one's price really droped already??? 😕
Thanks!!!
icecavern said:
I'm confused...I didn't see the price drop of the 17"mbp in the U.S. site. Can anybody tell me if the 17" one's price really droped already??? 😕
Thanks!!!
matticus008
macrumors 68040
You're being entirely too selective about tasks. By your argument, a car isn't obsolete if it was originally designed with a top speed of 35mph. As a car, it's not even in the ballpark with modern capabilities, making it obsolete. A Mac Classic, as a personal computer is inadequate and therefore obsolete. You're missing the huge gulf in capability between a 160MHz slower MacBook and a 20 year old computer--the difference which makes one obsolete and not the other.zync said:
Yes, because outdating != (does not equal) obsolete. A V6 and a V8 are immensely different, but if they added a V8 option to a car this year, that doesn't mean that the V6 they used last year is obsolete. Something can be obsolete even if it is still produced, and something can be no longer produced and not be obsolete. Your car is no longer produced (despite the huge physical similarity between the 2005 and 2006, there are differences in the configuration options and part suppliers). The fact that it is carried over largely unchanged doesn't negate the fact that it is not identical. The slower MacBook Pro had only one change made, and a minor one at that. The original MBP has been superseded, but is far from obsolete.
If it's simply outdated, then it's outdated, not obsolete. Despite what the dictionary says, your understanding does not reflect accepted usage.
Not at all. His MBP can do EVERYTHING that a new one can. The difference is as minor as changing the wattage on the speakers. A product can't be obsolete solely because it has been replaced. That's not the weight that the term "obsolete" carries.
No, you're not. You're using half of the definition, which is not the same thing.
I never said they were the same; the dictionary doesn't really make a working distinction unless you know the implications of the other words. The definition for cardinal uses the word scarlet. Scarlet and cardinal aren't the same, either. But if I stuck to what the dictionary said, I could use them interchangeably.
By your definition, your Mustang would be obsolete, and obviously you know that it wouldn't be true.
matticus008
macrumors 68040
No, it doesn't. It has no memory of its own. It steals the 64, too.bbrosemer said:
As for the working definition of integrated graphics here, it's not entirely accurate. The definition used, "built into the logic board," actually best describes an embedded graphics system. Integrated graphics are built into system components on the logic board and are inseparable from the computer (motherboards which use them cannot offer "optional" upgrades to better GPUs).
ATi and others make embedded systems, which they supply as chips to motherboard manufacturers to be built in to compatible motherboards. Embedded graphics systems take up more space than integrated systems but offer better performance because they often have their own memory, and it's possible to offer a selection of BTO options with these.
Discrete systems are seen as cards in desktops, but in notebook computers they can be either cards or right on the motherboard. A discrete system is a complete package with its own memory, its own internal bus, and a complete set of video functions that communicates with the rest of the system on the peripheral bus (AGP or PCIe). This offers the best performance, but also takes up the most space and generates a tremendous amount of heat (often equal to or greater than the CPU).
The MBP has a discrete graphics processor (which is built directly into the logic board). The MacBook has integrated graphics built directly into the logic chipset and no capacity for upgrades or optional GPUs.
Wonder if my 17" will get this update, since I just ordered it on the 8th...from PCConnection...and they said two weeks...
I hope so!
I hope so!
Speed Bump???
I always thought that a speed bump meant that there would be at least one new higher speed. To me this is just a price drop. The 2.0 & 2.16 GHz processors were options before as well as now. There was no new higher speed model made available. So to me this is just a price drop, even if it is a $500 amount.
The actual speed bump was made before the Intel MacBook SemiPro was shipped. At that time they dropped the 1.6 GHz model & added a 2.16 GHz model. Like that time the low end 1.8 GHz model was dropped, but no new speed/model was added to the top like before.
Price decrease yes, speed bump no.
Bill the TaxMan
Macrumors said:
In addition to the MacBook introduction today, Apple has quietly bumped the specs of its MacBook Pro line, leaving pricepoints unchanged.
The lineup currently stands as:
15.4" 2.0Ghz Core Duo, $1,999
15.4" 2.16Ghz Core Duo, $2,499
17" 2.16Ghz Core Duo, $2,799
Customers are also now able to custom-build their MacBook Pro with a glossy screen at no additional charge.
I always thought that a speed bump meant that there would be at least one new higher speed. To me this is just a price drop. The 2.0 & 2.16 GHz processors were options before as well as now. There was no new higher speed model made available. So to me this is just a price drop, even if it is a $500 amount.
The actual speed bump was made before the Intel MacBook SemiPro was shipped. At that time they dropped the 1.6 GHz model & added a 2.16 GHz model. Like that time the low end 1.8 GHz model was dropped, but no new speed/model was added to the top like before.
Price decrease yes, speed bump no.
Bill the TaxMan
matticus008
macrumors 68040
It's a speed bump because at the stock prices you're getting a faster CPU than before...so each model has been "bumped" to the next faster CPU. There's no price decrease, only that former options were made standard. The stock models are faster for the same price, so it can't really be called a price change.heisetax said:
Apple Shmapple
macrumors member
amac4me said:
Huh? All computer companies have to do this. If they didn't, a personal computer would cost $150,000 by now.