THANK YOU! Had someone said THIS instead of the smarta*% remarks, it might have gone over better.
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MacBook Pro Update Due for Launch as Soon as Tomorrow?
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THANK YOU! Had someone said THIS instead of the smarta*% remarks, it might have gone over better.
The new MBP *might* offer new technologies such as blu-ray or USB 3.0. Might. There is no definite take on this, all we can do is wait until Apple releases the product(s).
As I've said earlier on in this thread, if you're not working with large images, video editing, 3d rendering, hardcore gaming, etc, then the current MBPs will suit your needs without issue imho. For all those arguing that they won't, I'd like to ask them if that's the case, how have they survived with using computers over the past 10 or more years, that were/are much slower than the MBP setups we see currently?
Like most "ordinary" users (no insult intended), you probably rely on EMail, web browsing, word processing, etc. If that is the case, the current MBPs will easily handle this without a sweat.
A note on gaming - since most games are natively released on the Microsoft Windows platform, playing them on a MBP or other apple will either require dual booting into Windows using bootcamp, or using a virtual technology such as Fusion or Parallels (the latter being my choice from my research). VMs do require some grunt, and more so if you're trying to play a high end hardcore 3D game within a virtual environment. The memory and CPU are not the limiting issues with the MBPs - the limiting issues (imho) are the slower rpm hard drives (5400 rpm by default) and under powered mobile graphics GPUs.
I do suspect that the new MBP range will use 7200 rpm hdd devices as standard and will offer a more powerful GPU by default, with more options on upgrading the GPU too. These will do far more for the masses than blu-ray (low adoption rate), or USB 3.0 (brand new technology, no hardware supporting it yet is on the market I believe) will.
I believe that the new MBP range will debut at the same entry level prices for the entry level models, but the more powerful configurations will probably jump over current prices. GPUs cost money, more powerful GPU solutions even more so. 7200 rpm hdd devices don't cost more than their 5400 rpm brethern, and it is a bit puzzling that Apple has offered them as the default. That is my only real criticism of Apple's MBP range (other than the glossy screen, which is a nightmare to calibrate with calibration tools).
That's my 2c worth.
Dave
As I've said earlier on in this thread, if you're not working with large images, video editing, 3d rendering, hardcore gaming, etc, then the current MBPs will suit your needs without issue imho. For all those arguing that they won't, I'd like to ask them if that's the case, how have they survived with using computers over the past 10 or more years, that were/are much slower than the MBP setups we see currently?
Like most "ordinary" users (no insult intended), you probably rely on EMail, web browsing, word processing, etc. If that is the case, the current MBPs will easily handle this without a sweat.
A note on gaming - since most games are natively released on the Microsoft Windows platform, playing them on a MBP or other apple will either require dual booting into Windows using bootcamp, or using a virtual technology such as Fusion or Parallels (the latter being my choice from my research). VMs do require some grunt, and more so if you're trying to play a high end hardcore 3D game within a virtual environment. The memory and CPU are not the limiting issues with the MBPs - the limiting issues (imho) are the slower rpm hard drives (5400 rpm by default) and under powered mobile graphics GPUs.
I do suspect that the new MBP range will use 7200 rpm hdd devices as standard and will offer a more powerful GPU by default, with more options on upgrading the GPU too. These will do far more for the masses than blu-ray (low adoption rate), or USB 3.0 (brand new technology, no hardware supporting it yet is on the market I believe) will.
I believe that the new MBP range will debut at the same entry level prices for the entry level models, but the more powerful configurations will probably jump over current prices. GPUs cost money, more powerful GPU solutions even more so. 7200 rpm hdd devices don't cost more than their 5400 rpm brethern, and it is a bit puzzling that Apple has offered them as the default. That is my only real criticism of Apple's MBP range (other than the glossy screen, which is a nightmare to calibrate with calibration tools).
That's my 2c worth.
Dave
I did say this [earlier]. With so many posts, it's easy to miss threads. ;-)
Happy decision making!
Dave
5400 rpm drives require far less battery to operate. It allows them to boast of longer battery life, and frankly, for normal operations, 5400 rpm is plenty.
I'm totally with you on the glossy thing though, They look great, but I'll never own one.
They are also a complete and utter rip off. At the best of times, Apple hardware is pricey. Right now, it's laptop line is disgusting. £1889 for a 17" laptop with generation and a half old processors?
There's no way anyone can recommend that. It's just a damn rip off and nothing else.
Hmmm. I have had a few conversations with Apple Reps on the phone about return/excahnge policies. The first converation, over a month ago, they stated that if a new model comes out within 14 days I could exchange with no fees for a new one with no restock fees and if the news ones are less expensive I would get a credit. I decided to wait, and wait. I then looked at other options like refurb iMac and 13" MP (instead of my Plan A for a powerful new 15"). I was told that if I wanted to exchange for something of equal of greater value that I can do so for 30 days without fees. I considered it but still waited. Then last Thursday I call back - the same contact, and confirmed that 30 day statement and then placed an order for a 27" 3.06 imac w/256 GPU and 1TB drive. If I am not happy and a new MBP comes out in that time I can ship it back with no worries and get a new MBP. As it turns out a refurb 27" imac (with me adding another 4GB to make it 8GB) and a 13" MB with 4GB ram would cost about the same as a 15" (middle model) with 500GB 7200RPM HDD and 8Gb ram. So now my first mac is on its way and I have options. However, I was told that the 30 days thing depends on who you speak with and how flexible they will be. I now have 'my guy' that knows my situation and will work with me.
As far as with programs need hyperthreading, I know that Photoshop, which is my main program for image editing doesn't current make use of multiple cores and is more RAM intensive. When the 64 version comes shortly out I will up the RAM for about $100 to 8Gb and have a speed demon for my needs. If I did video editing or games then one of those i5 or i7's would be a superieor choice.
At any rate a refurb, especially if you need one now, is great way to go to minimize the price risk for current models. If my iMac works out I may either get a MB or a refurb 13" MBP (or better, a clearance sale MBP when the new ones come out)
Just to clarify Apples return policy
Online Store http://store.apple.com/us/help/returns_refund
Retail Store http://www.apple.com/legal/sales_policies/retail_us.html
Both policies seem to be the same to me and I have always been told it was 14 days WITH a restocking charge. If someone at Apple told you 30 days and no restocking charge I would ask him to send you an email stating that fact so you have something to fall back on.
I have a 21.5" iMac at work that I just love. You're 27" will be awesome. You won't want to return it. Good luck!
One argument FOR waiting...
So far, I've been one of those guys in this thread giving the finger to those people who say they "have" to wait for new models. Much of this is because normal users don't really do that much CPU-intensive activity.
But you know, I can think of one reasonably compelling reason to wait for Arrandale (unless you need it now), and I felt like bitching now.
OH MY GOD, ADOBE FLASH PLAYER, WHY DO YOU SUCK MY TESTICLES?
Seriously. I'm tired of watching one core trucking along like the little engine that couldn't. I've got the Firefox Flash blocker installed and whatnot, but man, when you're in Flash land on a web site, it's brutal. Have Flash going AND VMWare? Say goodnight.
Anyway, this is a total tangent, but I felt like expressing my frustration.
So far, I've been one of those guys in this thread giving the finger to those people who say they "have" to wait for new models. Much of this is because normal users don't really do that much CPU-intensive activity.
But you know, I can think of one reasonably compelling reason to wait for Arrandale (unless you need it now), and I felt like bitching now.
OH MY GOD, ADOBE FLASH PLAYER, WHY DO YOU SUCK MY TESTICLES?
Seriously. I'm tired of watching one core trucking along like the little engine that couldn't. I've got the Firefox Flash blocker installed and whatnot, but man, when you're in Flash land on a web site, it's brutal. Have Flash going AND VMWare? Say goodnight.
Anyway, this is a total tangent, but I felt like expressing my frustration.
Ditto this. I find that you can often get misinformation speaking with Apple reps. I ran into this problem this past summer regarding an iPhone repair. Ultimately a supervisor made the situation right, but it was a huge pain.
So far, I've been one of those guys in this thread giving the finger to those people who say they "have" to wait for new models. Much of this is because normal users don't really do that much CPU-intensive activity.
But you know, I can think of one reasonably compelling reason to wait for Arrandale (unless you need it now), and I felt like bitching now.
OH MY GOD, ADOBE FLASH PLAYER, WHY DO YOU SUCK MY TESTICLES?
Seriously. I'm tired of watching one core trucking along like the little engine that couldn't. I've got the Firefox Flash blocker installed and whatnot, but man, when you're in Flash land on a web site, it's brutal. Have Flash going AND VMWare? Say goodnight.
Anyway, this is a total tangent, but I felt like expressing my frustration.
This is because Flash is optimized on other platforms in a way that's not possible on Mac OS X. You can blame Apple/Steve Jobs for that.
Sorry, what? I can blame Apple for the fact that Adobe designed a media platform that can't be optimized well for OS X? That's on Adobe my friend. It's not like the Mac or OS X came out of nowhere and blindsided Adobe.
Can you be more specific?
Support for hardware acceleration is available on OSX and Flash isn't based on DirectX or any other Microsoft-proprietary technologies either. I don't see a reason why Flash can't be optimized for OSX. In fact, Adobe is currently doing just that. Too bad a public flamewar was needed to make this happen.
I take it back. I was wrong. Apologies. I misread the original blog/statement at Adobe about Apple not cooperating with them.
http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2010/02/open_access_to_content_and_app.html
"So, what about Flash running on Apple devices? We have shown that Flash technology is starting to work on these devices today by enabling standalone applications for the iPhone to be built on Flash. In fact, some of these apps are already available in the Apple App Store such as FickleBlox and Chroma Circuit. This same solution will work on the iPad as well. We are ready to enable Flash in the browser on these devices if and when Apple chooses to allow that for its users, but to date we have not had the required cooperation from Apple to make this happen."
Looks like it was purely iPad/iPhone specific, nothing to do with Mac OS X.
The information stated on the website is the correct, Apple-approved return policy... but most reps and store employees make deviaitons from the policy... Like was stated before, it depends on who you talk to and if they don't feel like buding for you, the language is clear in stating that you have 14 days to return or exchange with a 10% restocking fee; no exceptions are made for the release of a new model.
However, in my experience those terms are too straight-forward and cold for employees to shut you down if 1) a new model is released within 14 days or 2) you are attempting to return and repurchase a more expensive model with 30 days. When my MBP was stolen about 2 years ago I purchased a new 15" MBP and the next day a new model was released... I took it to the store and they exchanged it without charging me the 10% restocking fee, because if they had (like their policy said they should have) I would have freaked out at them for gouging their customers.
Accepted.
Yeah. While I'm not a big fan of Flash, I still think many of Apple's artificial limitations in iPhoneOS are wrong, including the lack of Flash support.
Anyway... Back to topic...
Another reason is quite simply the desirability of Macs, which is emphasized by having the latest and greatest. It is (((nice))) to have the new eye-catching model and it gives an increased sense of value.
While not vital for some buyers, this shouldn't be underestimated. People love their Macs
Exactly, this is what I orginally stated above, if I wanted to exchange for something of equal of greater value that I can do so for 30 days without fees.
I will admit that in my conversations it was made clear that 'it depends on who you are working with'. As such the rep gave me his direct number for when I am ready to order and I called him back last week and asked to confirm this, then placed an order. My plan A was to get a new 15" MBP and use my own monitor since I feared the 27" was too big (a 24" would be perfect) and problems with eye strain from smaller fonts. Anyway, I got tired of waiting for a new MBP this gave me a chance to try a 27" out. I suspect I will either love it or hate it - assuming I get a good one without yellow. If I hate it and the new MBP's are not out after 30 days then I would simply buy a MBP refurb which would cost more so apple would win. Of course there would have been no problem if the MBP was refreshed after 8 months but now it seems like 10 months or more is likely.
I guess my point is that Apple will work with you within reason but you need to find someone that will work with you - of course it never hurts it in writing so sending an email stating "it is my understanding that...." and getting a confirmation reply from your guy can help one sleep better at night.
I don't think that there's a huge amount of difference in power consumption between 5400 and 7200 rpm hdds. Yes, there is some, but not a lot.
Apple has been a ripoff hardware wise forever. That said, they are innovative, and other companies do not follow. Magnetic power plug? The keys/keyboard on the MBP I have is the best I've ever felt on a laptop. I'm a fussy touch typist btw. Backlight keys? Watch the screen and backlit keys auto adjust intensity when light sources in your room change. I've yet to see another manufacturer have this common sense. I bought my MBP over to a mates place on Saturday so his mum could have a look and she was blown away not only by the design and thoughtfullness [towards the end user], but also the tactile feel of quality. That, my friend, costs money. Would you rather a Toyota or a Ferrari?
Dave
15% is quite a bit, IMO. That's an extra hour on a 7 hour claim.....
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whitepaper/tp7200rpm_advantages_laptop_storage.pdf
To beat the horse dead. 15% is an hour, and an hour to a marketing guy trying to compare with other brands is an eternity. Hence the low-end having them. One of the many reasons why nobody has ever gotten even close to the advertised battery times in the real world.
Another vital reason for 5400 rpm drives is that they're quieter, and Apple pays attention to the overall computing experience including noise (recall how they once claimed the PowerPC iMacs were virtually silent, as they did with the Cube too).
7200 rpm drives have a tendency to whistle and whine a little, in my experience, and I've had quite a few. Imperceptibly, perhaps, but it's there.
One of the reasons I bought a MacBook Pro was because it's considered silent.
All that'll happen with the product line refresh is that the MacBook Pros will get the i5/i7 chips (although the low-end 13in model might stick with a 2.53GHz Core2Duo chip). The higher-end MacBooks will also get ATI graphics, maybe switchable.
It's worth mentioning from a noise point of view that early Core Duo chips tended to whistle too. After getting a Macbook that whistled so much I had to use Shhhmbp on it, I was put off buying any new Intel hardware until it's had time to bed down considerably. This has put me off buying a new MacBook Pro and, indeed, I recently invested in a Core 2 Duo model.
It's very obvious that Apple is putting every ounce of energy into getting the iPad out. It's still a relatively small organisation. There's simply not enough resources available to do a major overhaul of the MacBook Pro range right now. Even if they could have spared the hardware/software guys, they can't spare the marketing people it's all iPad, iPad, iPad.
there is not going to an Macbook Pro release until after the iPad starts shipping why would they release anything before the iPad release and compromise sales, the new MBP line are ready and waiting have been since FEB7 but they won't get the green light to sell until after we've all bought an iPad.