Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
So...you want ur first laptop, i7 chip and the latest an greatest!
Why the i7? U probably don't know why. This is the problem! Everyone wAnts the latest and greatest with no functional need. Get the
mcb pro now and u won't be sorry. New ones will not be out till may/June.

Well heres hows that logic is flawed.

Sure many people dont need the power offered by most of the processors out. That doesn't mean down the road that they wont. Truth is the i7s will be more viable for longer for the simple reason they are more powerful. In 2-3 years when programs do utilize the full potential of these processors, then you wont have regretted getting the better processor available.

People shouldn't have to pay top price for a processor that'll only last them 3 years when theres a processor available that could extend the viability of their computer an extra year or two.

Just because they wont utilize the potential of that processor now doesn't mean they never will.
 
Hey...

The CPU power for the i5/i7 is great but the truth is for most users you will not notice a difference between current and future mcp cpu's. What you will notice is if there will be the rumored features:
USB 3.0- Huge performance increases!
BlueRay Drive!
HDMI output!

That is the only thing that holds me back from the purchase. BUT the expectation is that the price will go back to the 1999 for the base level 15". Expect that rate increase across all models. Also expect that 3- 4 months after the release date those prices will drop back down to a lower amount. Then the assumption will be the next MCP is on the way.
Bottom line is if you are willing to wait who knows how long and pay a premium for wanting the new MCP as soon as they come out then definately wait.
What sucks is WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT WE ARE WAITING FOR. Meaning we don't even know what the feature set will be.
I love the machines and OS but hate the price fixing, punishing early adopters and, most importantly, leaving out technically capable features so they can creep them in one at a time and getting people to buy more and more. IPAD-No camera, phone, no 3g with round 1, no mobile providor options, no HD screen (sqare resolution 1024=768), etc. Same with the MCP.
 
???

Well heres hows that logic is flawed.

Sure many people dont need the power offered by most of the processors out. That doesn't mean down the road that they wont. Truth is the i7s will be more viable for longer for the simple reason they are more powerful. In 2-3 years when programs do utilize the full potential of these processors, then you wont have regretted getting the better processor available.

People shouldn't have to pay top price for a processor that'll only last them 3 years when theres a processor available that could extend the viability of their computer an extra year or two.

Just because they wont utilize the potential of that processor now doesn't mean they never will.

So what you are sayng is we should always buy the latest and greatest because one day we might need it. Don't know when or for what but we will. That seems open ended and makes me afraid I will always be out of date ;) Or at least that what these companies want us to feel.
 
So what you are sayng is we should always buy the latest and greatest because one day we might need it. Don't know when or for what but we will. That seems open ended and makes me afraid I will always be out of date ;) Or at least that what these companies want us to feel.

That's not what I'm saying... I'm just defending those who want to wait or at least think the newest hardware should have been released.

I agree with what you said above about the upgrade between processors being relatively small and not being sure of what well be recieving in the update.

Obviously if you need a computer now you should get one now, because technology will always be updating. It's almost guaranteed as soon as you purchase something, the next big thing will be released.
 
HDMI Output can be managed on the current generation through an adapter from Kanex. Not as cheap as other Mini Display Port adapters, but compared to the bump up in price of a MBP with the feature built in, Kanex is likely to be the better bargain. Keep in mind, there will not be an HDMI port built into the MBP, it'll retain the MiniDisplay Port and you'll be able to purchase an adapter to hdmi, the only difference between a future apple solution and what is presently out there now is that you will only plug one thing in (MiniDisplay) as opposed to two (MiniDisplay and USB). I think most of us can handle the USB.

Blu Ray drives are still not as common on PCs as they would probably need to be for apple to feel it was a feature people really want or need. Plus they want to continue to push online video content and with new compression methods and high speed internet the goal is to get you to go through them and not buy BluRay. Apple would also rather not support a competitor if it doesn't have to. The Mac Pro is the most likely of any candidate to get Blu Ray options, simply because the market there is substantially different than for the MBP which is not really meant to be a professional device, but a high end consumer product that looks "professional."

The debate as to whether it is worth waiting for or not has largely taken the position of future proofing your machine. That isn't bad advice, but you have to keep in mind that programmers aim to create software solutions that are as efficient as possible. Keep in mind that all those little Atom netbooks out there can run itunes, chrome web browser, windows 7, microsoft office, and an IM client all at once with 2gb of ram installed. I think we can all agree that a C2D is substantially higher on the chain than the Atom. So the point is, most of what people want to do these days are not CPU heavy. If you know you have the sort of work that is, or you're in a field where new software comes out and constantly pushes the edge of tech then by all means wait it out. For most people, the current generation is going to do all they need it to do, and be able to do that for a long time. Until there is a massive evolution in what people use their computers for, even a 2.26ghz C2D is going to be able to run Photoshop (requires 2.0Ghz) for the occasional cropping and editing people do, iWorks/Office, iTunes, an IM client, a web-browser with a number of open tabs, and even play most games that casual gamers would play (if you're wanting to play COD4 or something, you might need a dedicated graphics card to boost frame rates, but otherwise... probably not that necessary).

Long story short, we have hit a technological plateau where the advancements in the technology are substantially ahead of the software to exploit them. The difference between the Vaio i7 8gb Ram I'm using now and the Vaio C2D that it replaced has never been noticeable, (but now I can burn Blu-Ray which for me is a necessary feature). Unless you're doing video, or wanting to store 20GB to a single disk for record keeping purposes, save your money and buy what you need. Put the difference aside towards a computer 3 or 4 years from now instead.
 
The MBP you have now is more than suitable for programming. I've programmed on a dell inspiron 1520 with 1.5 ghz Core 2 Duo, 1gb RAM, Vista with no problems(back when I first began programming)!

Thanks for your response. However, I am aware that the first few years of programming it will handle no problem. What I really want to know is would it be able to handle the last few years of college, when I will be coding more complex applications. Also I plan on utilizing 2d graphics, possibly 3d(but at that point I might get a newer mac, its still several years in the future).

Also some one made a point that in a few years applications will be coded more for the iX processor. I think that the iX is not that big of a leap forward that applications will be programmed specifically for it and won't work as efficiently with the core 2 duos. As far as I understand the iX is just more efficient and a bit faster.
 
HDMI Output can be managed on the current generation through an adapter from Kanex. Not as cheap as other Mini Display Port adapters, but compared to the bump up in price of a MBP with the feature built in, Kanex is likely to be the better bargain. Keep in mind, there will not be an HDMI port built into the MBP, it'll retain the MiniDisplay Port and you'll be able to purchase an adapter to hdmi, the only difference between a future apple solution and what is presently out there now is that you will only plug one thing in (MiniDisplay) as opposed to two (MiniDisplay and USB). I think most of us can handle the USB.

Blu Ray drives are still not as common on PCs as they would probably need to be for apple to feel it was a feature people really want or need. Plus they want to continue to push online video content and with new compression methods and high speed internet the goal is to get you to go through them and not buy BluRay. Apple would also rather not support a competitor if it doesn't have to. The Mac Pro is the most likely of any candidate to get Blu Ray options, simply because the market there is substantially different than for the MBP which is not really meant to be a professional device, but a high end consumer product that looks "professional."

The debate as to whether it is worth waiting for or not has largely taken the position of future proofing your machine. That isn't bad advice, but you have to keep in mind that programmers aim to create software solutions that are as efficient as possible. Keep in mind that all those little Atom netbooks out there can run itunes, chrome web browser, windows 7, microsoft office, and an IM client all at once with 2gb of ram installed. I think we can all agree that a C2D is substantially higher on the chain than the Atom. So the point is, most of what people want to do these days are not CPU heavy. If you know you have the sort of work that is, or you're in a field where new software comes out and constantly pushes the edge of tech then by all means wait it out. For most people, the current generation is going to do all they need it to do, and be able to do that for a long time. Until there is a massive evolution in what people use their computers for, even a 2.26ghz C2D is going to be able to run Photoshop (requires 2.0Ghz) for the occasional cropping and editing people do, iWorks/Office, iTunes, an IM client, a web-browser with a number of open tabs, and even play most games that casual gamers would play (if you're wanting to play COD4 or something, you might need a dedicated graphics card to boost frame rates, but otherwise... probably not that necessary).

Long story short, we have hit a technological plateau where the advancements in the technology are substantially ahead of the software to exploit them. The difference between the Vaio i7 8gb Ram I'm using now and the Vaio C2D that it replaced has never been noticeable, (but now I can burn Blu-Ray which for me is a necessary feature). Unless you're doing video, or wanting to store 20GB to a single disk for record keeping purposes, save your money and buy what you need. Put the difference aside towards a computer 3 or 4 years from now instead.

Your point would definitely be valid if money was being saved...but its not. The new MBPs will probably be the same price but with the new enhancements.

Half the discussion here would be over if Apple issues a 25% discount on the current model. The current model is the same price today as it was Last June when it was released.

And a note about HDMI, the Miniport adapter that is current available won't carry sound, whereas a native HDMI port on the laptop should be able to do that.
 
Your point would definitely be valid if money was being saved...but its not. The new MBPs will probably be the same price but with the new enhancements.

Half the discussion here would be over if Apple issues a 25% discount on the current model. The current model is the same price today as it was Last June when it was released.

There has been no evidence that the price would not increase, and in the past Apple has bumped up the price on a new generation for the first few months, and then dropped it down slightly. So it stands to reason that one possibility is new features at the same price point, and a second, still reasonable, possibility is that we'll see new features at a slightly higher price point. The more new features we see, the more likely it probably is that the price will up as well, maybe not substantially, if you could get a 2.53Ghz 13" Pro today with all is features, and in a month get an i5 13" with the miniport->hdmi ability, USB 3, and BluRay for $100 more, that would still be a great price!

Thing is we just don't know much. We don't know when an update is coming, what new features may be available in that update, or the price. With so many unknowns it is hard to make any real educated guess here. In the mean time, if your hold up is a lack of HDMI, there is a $60 solution to that. If your hold up is USB 3 or BluRay, there aren't solutions for those beyond waiting for Apple to add them, could be this generation of updates, the next, or never for Blu Ray.
 
There has been no evidence that the price would not increase, and in the past Apple has bumped up the price on a new generation for the first few months, and then dropped it down slightly. So it stands to reason that one possibility is new features at the same price point, and a second, still reasonable, possibility is that we'll see new features at a slightly higher price point. The more new features we see, the more likely it probably is that the price will up as well, maybe not substantially, if you could get a 2.53Ghz 13" Pro today with all is features, and in a month get an i5 13" with the miniport->hdmi ability, USB 3, and BluRay for $100 more, that would still be a great price!

Thing is we just don't know much. We don't know when an update is coming, what new features may be available in that update, or the price. With so many unknowns it is hard to make any real educated guess here. In the mean time, if your hold up is a lack of HDMI, there is a $60 solution to that. If your hold up is USB 3 or BluRay, there aren't solutions for those beyond waiting for Apple to add them, could be this generation of updates, the next, or never for Blu Ray.

Yeah and that's the biggest issue... NOT KNOWING.
And that is exactly why we all are here everyday sharing stories, gathering bits of information from whatever source trying to piece it together into something more reliable without any luck.

And that my friend is half the fun! Frustrating fun.....
 
Yeah and that's the biggest issue... NOT KNOWING.
And that is exactly why we all are here everyday sharing stories, gathering bits of information from whatever source trying to piece it together into something more reliable without any luck.

And that my friend is half the fun! Frustrating fun.....

It is definitely entertaining, if not a bit frustrating... I'm on here everyday off and on holding on to that last little bit of hope that maybe, just maybe, someone has heard something certain... of course even if they had the chances of it being accurate might not be high... but its part of the game. I'm not knocking waiting, I'm still waiting (although the 13" 2.26 MBP for 999 at microcenter has my attention) but if people are waiting solely for specific features that can be managed now, maybe its not worth the wait.
 
So what you are sayng is we should always buy the latest and greatest because one day we might need it. Don't know when or for what but we will. That seems open ended and makes me afraid I will always be out of date ;) Or at least that what these companies want us to feel.

what he is trying to say is why pay top dollar for old technology. its stupid. would you go buy a corvette with a ls1 from the 2000 model for the same price as the brand new z06 with the ls7 because you dont need the extra horsepower? i think not.
 
Really???

what he is trying to say is why pay top dollar for old technology. its stupid. would you go buy a corvette with a ls1 from the 2000 model for the same price as the brand new z06 with the ls7 because you dont need the extra horsepower? i think not.

Does anyone really think, given Apples track record, they will give us all these new features including a new CPU and architecture supporting that new CPU for the same price??? C'mon, they are not that stupid. They will come out at a higher price point leaving us with the same question...old or new for a price. Early adopters will kick up the 20% plus and the rest will buy the existing or wait for the price to drop. Standard consumption curve for retailers. How much will you be willing to pay more and what does more mean to you. Draw those lines now and lets see when this new MCP comes out.
 
Does anyone really think, given Apples track record, they will give us all these new features including a new CPU and architecture supporting that new CPU for the same price??? C'mon, they are not that stupid. They will come out at a higher price point leaving us with the same question...old or new for a price. Early adopters will kick up the 20% plus and the rest will buy the existing or wait for the price to drop. Standard consumption curve for retailers. How much will you be willing to pay more and what does more mean to you. Draw those lines now and lets see when this new MCP comes out.

This is a silly statement that ignores all of data over the last 5 years or so. 15" MBPs have consistently had an entry level price point of $2K. New models appear at that price point, and older models are discounted. In fact, we last saw a price DECREASE for an entry-level 15", but that was only because it was a pretty gimped-down machine.

Whenever new models appear, there will be a $2K model that's pretty much the standard 15"er. To believe otherwise is to ignore history.
 
Does anyone really think, given Apples track record, they will give us all these new features including a new CPU and architecture supporting that new CPU for the same price??? C'mon, they are not that stupid. They will come out at a higher price point leaving us with the same question...old or new for a price. Early adopters will kick up the 20% plus and the rest will buy the existing or wait for the price to drop. Standard consumption curve for retailers. How much will you be willing to pay more and what does more mean to you. Draw those lines now and lets see when this new MCP comes out.

Well see that's what we DON'T know...
And brings up back to where we started.

I see it this way...
Current price $1199 USD.
Upgrade RAM to 4GB $100
Upgrade HDD to 320 $100

If Apple doesn't do anything else major, they will just up the RAM and HDD and still sell for $1199. I've saved myself $200 by waiting for a few weeks/months.
To me, that's not a biggie. I can wait it out.
 
Now I'm convinced

I'll buy my first mac ever on mid or late April when I go to the states. If there is an update, GREAT. But if don't, it's ok. I'll buy my 15" MBP anyways.
My only doubt is if I buy the 15" baseline or the high end...'cause if there is no new releases until mid april, I'll buy the new ones in the end of the year :p it's a viciuous circle! :p
 
This is a silly statement that ignores all of data over the last 5 years or so. 15" MBPs have consistently had an entry level price point of $2K. New models appear at that price point, and older models are discounted. In fact, we last saw a price DECREASE for an entry-level 15", but that was only because it was a pretty gimped-down machine.

Whenever new models appear, there will be a $2K model that's pretty much the standard 15"er. To believe otherwise is to ignore history.

The 15" model is 1699. I think u r right , the 15" model will have a base of 1999. U think that is the same price?
 
The 15" model is 1699. I think u r right , the 15" model will have a base of 1999. U think that is the same price?

from what i always recall (i havent been purchasing macs for very long). the 15" that has the dedicated videocard and and better processor has been $1999 which is their, what i would call, mid level performer. then there is the 15" with the better processor and a videocard with more memory. then there is the 17" with the same specs, only with a larger screen.

now since the unibody has come out they added the 15" lacking a dedicated card and a slower processor and bumped down the price. which to me shouldnt even be counted as a macbook pro so i consider the cheapest pro the $1999 unit. most will agree with me.
 
I'm also waiting the new MBP... But I'm pretty confident with the time it takes to integrate the new intel chips. It means a major update and not only a CPU change...

In next gen MBP, I trust:cool:
 
from what i always recall (i havent been purchasing macs for very long). the 15" that has the dedicated videocard and and better processor has been $1999 which is their, what i would call, mid level performer. then there is the 15" with the better processor and a videocard with more memory. then there is the 17" with the same specs, only with a larger screen.

now since the unibody has come out they added the 15" lacking a dedicated card and a slower processor and bumped down the price. which to me shouldnt even be counted as a macbook pro so i consider the cheapest pro the $1999 unit. most will agree with me.

Wait and see
 
(1) CD2 is a waste of your money for the prices Apple is charging. This technology is 3-4 years old.

(2) MacBook Pros are not hard to find by any stretch of the mind. Maybe in Aussie? But then you could still order from the Aussie Apple store?

(3) To recap (1), don't waste your money on CD2 especially if you are doing photo and video editing.

huh? Yes, the basics of C2D might be a few years old, but the speeds aren't that bad. Mobile CPUs have always been slower than the desktop variants for starters. Apple's speeds are no worse than what I've been seeing from competitors to be honest. Sure, we're seeing the trickle down effect of i5/i7 mobile chipsets over the past Six or so weeks, but they are not supremely faster than previous chipsets. I could probably find a few websites with reviews etc to prove my point if I had to.

Yes, Apple's prices are a bit high, but the basics of economics are that:

a) Apple is in this to make money
b) they have a responsibility to shareholders to maximise profits
c) if people are still prepared to pay X amount of money for the current MBP range, then they'll keep charging it. Want lower prices? No one buy any Apple products for an extended period of time. Do it long enough and they'll cave in and lower prices.

That said, you are paying a bit more for a better quality product, and OS X is what I consider the best operating system at the moment (from a user point of view). Linux offers freedom and ultra configurability, but can be difficult to install and setup and maintain/admin, Windows is hit and miss.

Oh, and C2D is fine for photo and video editing. I managed to work on large images on my very old Athlon 3ghz machine (probably 5 or 6 years old now). C2D chipsets are MUCH faster than this. How many people really work on large images and multiple layers in Photoshop?

Dave
 
Good grief people, get a grip. The difference between Core iX and Core2Duo is not that large. We're talking a low double-digit percentage here at best. Even for people who constantly work with CPU-bound applications, that's not going to make or break anything. It's fine to want the latest (and I do too), but let's not pretend it makes that much of a difference. If your time REALLY is so precious and valuable, you already have a quad core desktop to do your serious crunching.

Amen. Maybe even one of the 8 core macpros with 32gb of ram and photoshop cs4 (takes full advantage of 64 bit operating systems and large amounts of memory - earlier versions of photoshop don't).

Some people will make all sorts of BS suggestions just to justify their decision to wait. Technology is always improving, if you're always waiting, you'll never buy anything!!!

Dave
 
The CPU power for the i5/i7 is great but the truth is for most users you will not notice a difference between current and future mcp cpu's. What you will notice is if there will be the rumored features:
USB 3.0- Huge performance increases!
BlueRay Drive!
HDMI output![snip]

Very few PCs are supporting USB3, I don't even think the standard has been finally ratified as a RFC yet. I'm yet to see a device using USB3, but it isn't bad future proofing I agree. Still, let's be realistic here, most people use USB for mice and keyboards, there's bugger all difference imho. Yes, for USB portable hdds you will see performance gains I admit. That said, eSATA kills USB2 and probably would do the same with USB3 (I'd have to check the stats on this to be totally sure though). Here we go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#eSATA

Some single disks can transfer 131 MB/s during real use,[8] about four times the maximum transfer rate of USB 2.0 or FireWire 400 (IEEE 1394a) and almost twice as fast as the maximum transfer rate of FireWire 800, though the S3200 FireWire 1394b spec reaches ~400 MB/s (3.2 Gbit/s).

USB 3.0's 4.8Gbit/s and Firewire's future 6.4Gb/s will be faster than eSATA I, but the eSATA version of SATA 6G will operate at 6.0Gb/s (the term SATA III is being eschewed by the SATA-IO to avoid confusion with SATA II 3.0 Gb/s which was colloquially referred to as "SATA 3G" [bps] or "SATA 300" [MB/s] since 1.5 Gb/s SATA I and 1.5 Gb/s SATA II were referred to as both "SATA 1.5G" [b/s] or "SATA 150" [MB/s]). They will therefore operate at negligible differences of each other

Bluray is nice, but for most people, is it really worth the money? blu ray disks are still VERY expensive, players are still very expensive, and you need a nice new hdmi TV/monitor that is capable of hd display outputs to make the most of it. It's overkill really, and is just another way for the MPAA to milk more money out of is. Plus, it supports region locking, which is abhorrent, and I tout, monopolistic. hd-dvd was a far better option imho, but the movie studios didn't want it and vetoed it. I reckon bluray will go the way of sacd and dvd-audio - be an all but dead system in a few years time. Uptake is very small, and very slow, and there's very few titles (less than a 1000 titles are available).

Dave
 
hi Dave,

I really am going to use it for photo editing raw images, web surfing, emailing - maybe video editing in the future - so really I think just basic stuff.... And iagree, probably the cd2 would be fine for me needs and I had convienced myself of this!! Which is why I went to buy one today - however, both resellers were not enthusiastic to order me one - suggesting I wait!
Back to the old waiting game!!!
If there were plenty in stock - I think I would take your advice and purchaise - but it appears they are hard to fine :(

It'll probably be fine Susan. Yes, the new machines will probably have some new features, and yes, they'll be faster, but by how much is the real question. Those who wait for new technology using never buy anything. You can quote me on that ;-)

Dave
 
Long story short, Apple is probably better served by letting us all know we have an update in sight so we don't go buy a PC, but waiting to release until there are sufficient quantities of iPads in the stores to try and double up on sales with MBP purchasers. At least in my opinion :)
If they tell us when it is coming out now a lot more people would decide to wait which means less sales for the current Mbps but by not telling us they risk only the minority that are waiting for updates going out to buy pcs and a lot more (non waiters or carers for that matter) people will buy the current Mbps giving more profit or turnover plus even the (waiters) might just go out and buy a imac or mac-pro which will still profit apple. I am not sure if i am right about any of this so could someone reassure me and tell me if i am or not and their views on the matter. thanks
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.