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MacBook Pro Update Due for Launch as Soon as Tomorrow?
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I would disagree, based on these benchmarks:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2542/6
I know that it is comparing the desktop versions of both chips but I would assume that the performance difference would be scalable down to the mobile processors too.
I don't see how it can be argued a core 2 duo is more powerful than an i5 when i5 mobile processors have HyperThreading; check out the link: http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?series=46476
Even if you have a higher-clocked C2D, HyperThreading is the thing that's going to make the difference for any pro doing vid/3D work - you'll still have twice the amount of threads to use with an i5 than a C2D. Even against a Core 2 Quad you would see a respectable amount of performance from a 2-core (4-threaded) i5, and that's before we even get into i7 and 4 cores (8 threads). It's not about base clock speed, it's all about the amount of threads, and that's why Nehalem is a big deal.
And on the subject of top-of the line, check out what Alienware are shipping: http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/hom...px?refid=laptop-gaming&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&~ck=mn
i7's baby; buying a top of the line C2D isn't really buying top of the line, it's buying something that is not only outdated but is looming death in the face.
The argument of comparing a top C2D against a base i5 is not a particularly objective one either, as most likely the price point will stay the same, plus who here has a spare 5k to throw at a new laptop on a couple of months time, or who with any business sense would do such a thing anyway??
That only matters of course if you care about such things though, but I would assume most people buying a Macbook Pro are probably pros in design/media field and the performance and the price at which you buy it will matter, at least that's where I'm coming from.
If Apple want to remain top of the line on their side of the field they better start shipping Nehalem too!
Gotta twist their arm! Petition anyone? (I kid!)I would say that in spite of the obvious concern that Apple has the most out-dated laptop range than at any time since the intel switch, the odds on any given tuesday leading up to today have been at 20-40%, peaking at almost 50% when this rumour came out and again when Steve told some guy not to worry about it on a monday. With the amount of press the iPad is getting lately, I think the odds have dipped to 15% for today and will soon dip to and remain less than 10% 'til the tuesday a week after the 3G version is delivered.
I base this guesswork on checking this site pretty much every day for 6 years, having a fairly good understanding of apple's business model and the bitter memory of the 6 month hiatus in mac updates that accompanied the original iPhone release.
I base this guesswork on checking this site pretty much every day for 6 years, having a fairly good understanding of apple's business model and the bitter memory of the 6 month hiatus in mac updates that accompanied the original iPhone release.
Very very unlikely. Intel CPUs KILL AMD units for breakfast. Sure, Intel's CPUs are more expensive, but even their cheaper ones generally kill AMD's top of the line CPUs. There's more to FSB or cores with CPUs.
I suspect that Apple will either:
1) disable the GPU component via firmware on the new Intel mobile CPUs (not entirely sure if it's possible or not, but wouldn't surprise me)
2) Deploy separate GPUs to handle graphics situations that the onboard CPU GPUs cannot handle (much like the current 9400/9600 solution).
point 2) is messy, and costly imho. I'm sure Apple would prefer the latest mobile Intel CPUs without GPUs, and cheaper prices, but alas, Intel is a monopoly and can do what it wants. I mean, Microsoft didn't get punished all those years ago, what are they going to do, punish Intel? I think not, far too much damage to the US economy would occur. AMD is too weak to take advantage and "lead" imho. For that reason alone, I can't see Apple switching to AMD CPUs.
Dave
I suspect that Apple will either:
1) disable the GPU component via firmware on the new Intel mobile CPUs (not entirely sure if it's possible or not, but wouldn't surprise me)
2) Deploy separate GPUs to handle graphics situations that the onboard CPU GPUs cannot handle (much like the current 9400/9600 solution).
point 2) is messy, and costly imho. I'm sure Apple would prefer the latest mobile Intel CPUs without GPUs, and cheaper prices, but alas, Intel is a monopoly and can do what it wants. I mean, Microsoft didn't get punished all those years ago, what are they going to do, punish Intel? I think not, far too much damage to the US economy would occur. AMD is too weak to take advantage and "lead" imho. For that reason alone, I can't see Apple switching to AMD CPUs.
Dave
It's a good question. Desktop wise, the newer ATI GPUs are better value for money, and almost as powerful as their Nvidia cousins. For most users, Apple switching to ATI wouldn't really be a bother. I doubt that Intel would be happy though - they have some grand self belief that they can make decent GPUs. I don't think so Tim. It's classical monopolistic behaviour - by leveraging their dominant share of the Desktop and mobile CPU market, they hope to ram Intel GPUs down everyones throats, and beat ATI.
From a driver point of view, ATI drivers have always sucked beyond belief - both on the Windows and Linux platforms. I doubt Mac would be any different. Nvidia has always been well ahead of ATI in terms of quality drivers. There's no technical reason that I could think of that would stop Apple from continuing to use Nvidia GPUs, although business deals with Intel might preclude Apple from using Nvidia GPUs etc. Nothing would surprise me, i.e. Apple gets a nice discount on CPUs from Intel, they need to keep their mouth shut and not say anything about the contractual agreements, they dump Nvidia and either go with Intel GPUs or switch to ATI (or something else).
Maybe Apple will go with only Intel GPUs on entry level models, and incorporate more powerful dedicated GPUs on upper level models. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the moment ;-) The only guys who'll have any ideas are those in Apple's R&D, upper marketing echelons, top management, and possible upper level TAC.
Dave
mbp revisions
here is the first sane person commenting on mbp release - to think that they would dilute the attention on the ipad prior to its launch is crazy...just a canuck's opinion, who can't even get an ipad til end of april
here is the first sane person commenting on mbp release - to think that they would dilute the attention on the ipad prior to its launch is crazy...just a canuck's opinion, who can't even get an ipad til end of april
So let me make sure I understand what you are trying to say. You're saying is that the HIGH end available now SHOULD be faster than the BASE model available later? If that is what you are trying to say, it's kinda apples to oranges and that is a terrible argument to say that performance won't be effected. You have to compare evenly across the board (Base to Base and High end to High end). Do you honestly think that the high end available for the same price soon will not be faster than what is offered now? Also, you're forgetting that they will probably upgrade other components as well. If they even increase the battery life an hour for example, then the new MBP >> current MBP in my book, but I seriously doubt that in an EVEN comparison, the upgraded MBP would not be a better performer. The only way I could imagine Apple not improving performance in comparable MBPs is if it increases battery life or some other beneficial trade-off.
MBP updates before the end of April?
Future Shop's in-store Apple stores have a big Apple Mac event scheduled for April 30 - May 2. It was originally scheduled for March - April. Obviously an event like this won't be held for old products. Future Shop is owned by Best Buy Canada. The stores holding the event have the in-store Apple stores. I don't think this event is only for updated Mac Minis and lower level iMacs, as the top end Core i iMacs and new MB appeared last fall with no fanfare at FS. It could be a combined event for Core ix MBs, MPBs, iMacs, and Minis. The iPads are schedule for release in Canada at the end of April, but this event will probably be at Apple stores and Best Buy only. Also, FS doesn't carry Mac Pros.
Here's the Future Shop link:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/Apple-Demo-Days.aspx
I posted similar info yesterday in the Waiting for Arrandale thread, but nobody seemed interested.
Future Shop's in-store Apple stores have a big Apple Mac event scheduled for April 30 - May 2. It was originally scheduled for March - April. Obviously an event like this won't be held for old products. Future Shop is owned by Best Buy Canada. The stores holding the event have the in-store Apple stores. I don't think this event is only for updated Mac Minis and lower level iMacs, as the top end Core i iMacs and new MB appeared last fall with no fanfare at FS. It could be a combined event for Core ix MBs, MPBs, iMacs, and Minis. The iPads are schedule for release in Canada at the end of April, but this event will probably be at Apple stores and Best Buy only. Also, FS doesn't carry Mac Pros.
Here's the Future Shop link:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/Apple-Demo-Days.aspx
I posted similar info yesterday in the Waiting for Arrandale thread, but nobody seemed interested.
I don't follow...I get that there's some event going on to demo Apple products, and agree that it would be unlikely they'd demo something old...but lose you when you seem to dismiss that it could be for the iPad. Not saying you're wrong, just saying I don't follow...could you explain a little more?
Another Tuesday has gone by without any updates. I think two things are going on and another is hopefully going on:
1. Apple is trying to get the iX processors without the terrible Intel integrated graphics on the same die. It may be taking more time to get those in numbers.
2. Apple is waiting until the iPad launch is complete. It would make sense that at the first sign of a lull after the iPad launch they'd announce new Mac Pros and MBPs to keep the focus on Apple and indirectly back on the iPad.
3. (Wishful thinking probably) The new Macs will have SATA-6 and USB 3.0. Please please please.
1. Apple is trying to get the iX processors without the terrible Intel integrated graphics on the same die. It may be taking more time to get those in numbers.
2. Apple is waiting until the iPad launch is complete. It would make sense that at the first sign of a lull after the iPad launch they'd announce new Mac Pros and MBPs to keep the focus on Apple and indirectly back on the iPad.
3. (Wishful thinking probably) The new Macs will have SATA-6 and USB 3.0. Please please please.
The reason why I don't think it's for the iPad is because the event is for Macs. If it was for the iPad, you wouldn't need Mac experts, and it says, "You'll love a Mac." That line has always referred to Mac computers only. Mac and iPad are two distinct product lines at the Apple site. The last time there was any major attention given to a new product line at Future Shop was when the new MBPs were introduced last summer. Also, as far as I know, the iPad will be available at Apple stores and Best Buy only, for the initial release, the same as in the US. In addition, if it was for the iPad it would mostly likely say so.
I know, because Apple is so straight forward with their releases. Full disclosure is their moto! Yeah right! They have tight control on how their resellers communications as well.
It's been benchmarked. We aren't talking about hypothetical infrastructure. There are real-world benchmarks comparing the PC laptops with Arrandale to the performance of C2D. <20% improvement clock-for-clock is what you get. Hardly game-changing.
See the story on Macrumors itself: https://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/0...hmarks-show-major-improvements-for-notebooks/
OK, I can buy that...especially because from what you're describing, it actually seems like it could be a clue (assuming the "not for old hardware" assumption is valid)! Now if you could bump up those dates a little...
"Anandtech provides an overview of the newly announced chips which run as fast as 2.66GHz (Dual Core) as a base speed with Turbo speeds as high as 3.33GHz. Direct comparisons of the 2.53GHz Arrandale and the 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo currently used in the MacBook Pro showed notable improvements at the same clock speed:"
Doesn't this mean that there is a notable increase in performance? Almost 20% increase is still pretty good IMHO.
On another note, you're all probably right about the wait, but one can hope!
Yeah you've hit the nail on the head exactly. I'd rather have an Nvidia GPU over an ATI because ATI have always had poor drivers and Nvidia seem to excel regularly at theirs. Plus they update their GPUs with technologies such a CUDA which can be used for video encoding. I'd take an ATI over Intel any day though!! All this excitement makes me wonder if a career as an Apple R+D may be a go-er
So there is an improvement then. And looking at the results closer it is fairly substantial. Just under 20% overall yes, but that is dragged down by E-Learning and General Productivity which are nothing huge considering. The 27% increase (rounding to nearest decimal) in Video Creation and 29% in 3D are impressive however. Follow that with a 38-43% improvement in Cinebench and 26-45% for H.264 encoding and you can't say that that isn't substantial. To the average guy who wants to write his screenplay yeah C2D is fine but cumon, anyone who uses the Macbook Pro for what it's really targeted for will reap the benefits of Nehalem, saying otherwise is pure denial.
My hopes exactly!! Plus a proper full-sized keyboard would be great. Move the speakers parallel with the track pad and extend the keyboard horizontally and that would be amazing! I need my numeric 0 key for After Effects!
Super wishful thinking aside I would reckon that if the Pros aren't updated until Junish due to points 1 and 2 (they seem the most realistic options) then USB 3.0 would be included. Not so sure about SATA-6, it's still early days waiting for that to mature with SSD but I hope I'm wrong
Apple will never introduce a full keyboard with numpad onto their laptops. Only thing you can do is use an external numpad or get the fullsized Apple wired keyboard.
Speakers by the trackpad would be horrible, they'd get muffled when you move your hands, plus it'd look so ugly!
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No MBP until AFTER iPad launch complete
The MBP may have been stymied by problems that kept it from being released before the iPad but irregardless of the reason there's no way that Apple wants it competing with the iPad right now. And for those who say it's a different demographic (iPad vs. MBP) your only partially right. If your going to drop 500-900 dollars on an iPad you might just decide, "forget it, I'll just get a laptop that does more".
Anyway, I don't think there's anyway we see a new MBP until after the iPad 3G's are on the shelves for a couple weeks. Which leaves me with Mr. Jobs email reply...
He doesn't care a whip about his loyal customer base. His attitude through this has been, "Take what I give you when I decide to give it to you". The secrecy bit is so over the top that he won't even talk to us who love the MBP and other Apple computer products. We don't get to have any idea of what and when something is coming out. Not even a guess at what their even exploring.
This kind of attitude only makes money until you have a competitor that cares about the customer. Sadly, Apple has no competitor. Its products are so unique that a PC is not really much competition. Don't get me wrong, I love the Apple name brand and products but Jobs lack of interest in serving his existing customers is disheartening.
Apple products.......B+ to an A-
Apple store and genius bar........A to A+
Apple loyalty to existing customers.......D- to F
a macrumors member posted the comment that he felt like Charlie Brown knowing that Lucy was going to pull the ball away when he went to kick it.
Steve Jobs is Lucy and the loyal customer is Charlie Brown.
The MBP may have been stymied by problems that kept it from being released before the iPad but irregardless of the reason there's no way that Apple wants it competing with the iPad right now. And for those who say it's a different demographic (iPad vs. MBP) your only partially right. If your going to drop 500-900 dollars on an iPad you might just decide, "forget it, I'll just get a laptop that does more".
Anyway, I don't think there's anyway we see a new MBP until after the iPad 3G's are on the shelves for a couple weeks. Which leaves me with Mr. Jobs email reply...
He doesn't care a whip about his loyal customer base. His attitude through this has been, "Take what I give you when I decide to give it to you". The secrecy bit is so over the top that he won't even talk to us who love the MBP and other Apple computer products. We don't get to have any idea of what and when something is coming out. Not even a guess at what their even exploring.
This kind of attitude only makes money until you have a competitor that cares about the customer. Sadly, Apple has no competitor. Its products are so unique that a PC is not really much competition. Don't get me wrong, I love the Apple name brand and products but Jobs lack of interest in serving his existing customers is disheartening.
Apple products.......B+ to an A-
Apple store and genius bar........A to A+
Apple loyalty to existing customers.......D- to F
a macrumors member posted the comment that he felt like Charlie Brown knowing that Lucy was going to pull the ball away when he went to kick it.
Steve Jobs is Lucy and the loyal customer is Charlie Brown.