MacBook Pro Update Due for Launch as Soon as Tomorrow?

[john123]

So let me make sure I understand what you are trying to say. You're saying is that the HIGH end available now SHOULD be faster than the BASE model available later? If that is what you are trying to say, it's kinda apples to oranges and that is a terrible argument to say that performance won't be effected. You have to compare evenly across the board (Base to Base and High end to High end). Do you honestly think that the high end available for the same price soon will not be faster than what is offered now? Also, you're forgetting that they will probably upgrade other components as well. If they even increase the battery life an hour for example, then the new MBP >> current MBP in my book, but I seriously doubt that in an EVEN comparison, the upgraded MBP would not be a better performer. The only way I could imagine Apple not improving performance in comparable MBPs is if it increases battery life or some other beneficial trade-off.

I didn't say performance wouldn't be [a]ffected. I said that Core iX isn't a game-changer. Which it isn't, given that you can get an equal level of performance now.

The initial Arrandale sports no battery increase, so that argument goes out the window. Hard drivers aren't any different now. The Arrandale caches are wimpy. Etc.

My point -- still standing as tall as it did before -- is that the lack of Core iX isn't a "blocker" for anyone but the high-end customers right now. If you want the same kind of performance you'll get with Arrandale in a stock configuration, you can go out today and buy it.

So there is an improvement then. And looking at the results closer it is fairly substantial. Just under 20% overall yes, but that is dragged down by E-Learning and General Productivity which are nothing huge considering. The 27% increase (rounding to nearest decimal) in Video Creation and 29% in 3D are impressive however. Follow that with a 38-43% improvement in Cinebench and 26-45% for H.264 encoding and you can't say that that isn't substantial. To the average guy who wants to write his screenplay yeah C2D is fine but cumon, anyone who uses the Macbook Pro for what it's really targeted for will reap the benefits of Nehalem, saying otherwise is pure denial.

Again, no one is denying that there is improvement. It's just not night-and-day. It's also kind of unfair (and inaccurate) for you to use the phrase, "anyone who uses the Macbook Pro for what it's really targeted." It's targeted for higher-end customers of Apple products. That doesn't mean people who are often CPU bound. I assure you that as someone who has spent tens of thousands over the last 10 years on Apple laptops that I am among the target customers, yet I'm not CPU-bound most of the time.

 

[deadlydingo]

It isn't better - not even marginally. Today's BTO processor-upgraded C2Ds will run faster than the base model Core iX that Apple releases. The fact that waiting will save you some money is the only compelling bit. Performance arguments, on the other hand, simply do not apply for any user who has plenty of cash and can afford the top-of-the-line today.

A bit on both sides of the fence huh? It sounds like you were saying there was no performance upgrade..."not even marginally."

And on the battery, I wasn't saying that the battery will be better, I was saying if the processor isn't better then the battery (or some other trade-off) would be and that was only a response to the fact that I didn't believe you when you said there was no performance upgrade. You even proved that there is a performance upgrade.

 

[Eric S.]

Another Tuesday has gone by without any updates. I think two things are going on and another is hopefully going on:

1. Apple is trying to get the iX processors without the terrible Intel integrated graphics on the same die. It may be taking more time to get those in numbers.

Arrandale is already a two-die config, with cpu/southbridge on one 32nm IC and gpu/memory controller on another 45nm IC. So what you're suggesting is either that a) Intel produce a 45nm IC with only the memory controller, or b) Intel integrates the memory controller onto the 32nm IC with the cpu/southbridge. Highly unlikely in either case, I would think.

2. Apple is waiting until the iPad launch is complete. It would make sense that at the first sign of a lull after the iPad launch they'd announce new Mac Pros and MBPs to keep the focus on Apple and indirectly back on the iPad.

I agree with this, but I don't think the plan is to wait for a lull. I expect Apple has the schedule all worked out already; that's basically necessary for marketing/production reasons.

3. (Wishful thinking probably) The new Macs will have SATA-6 and USB 3.0. Please please please.

I would be very surprised.

 

[john123]

A bit on both sides of the fence huh? It sounds like you were saying there was no performance upgrade..."not even marginally."

And on the battery, I wasn't saying that the battery will be better, I was saying if the processor isn't better then the battery (or some other trade-off) would be and that was only a response to the fact that I didn't believe you when you said there was no performance upgrade. You even proved that there is a performance upgrade.

I'm sorry you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was saying is that there is no increase -- not even marginal -- gained from (Core iX - C2D) clock for clock that you can't gain from (C2D_fast - C2D_slow) today. Therefore, if you are not looking at a top-end BTO today, performance isn't a reason not to take a C2D. Only price/value are.

 

[cobalt79]

To move past the lame arguments...

For all those June predictors out there, if Apple were to wait until June, I think it might be the biggest WWDC ever! By looking at the buyer's guide, every apple product (but the iPad) would be in RED "DON'T BUY" status.

I figure that is a record...

 

[john123]

lame ...

And blind, evidence-less guesses about release dates aren't?

 

[deadlydingo]

True, but it's all blind hope.

 

[locality]

John123, are you an Apple spy, hired to work this board to convince as many buyers as possible to buy up the remaining stock of the current MBPs? If not, you should be getting paid because you've nearly convinced me to give up the waiting game.

 

[deadlydingo]

I'm sorry you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was saying is that there is no increase -- not even marginal -- gained from (Core iX - C2D) clock for clock that you can't gain from (C2D_fast - C2D_slow) today. Therefore, if you are not looking at a top-end BTO today, performance isn't a reason not to take a C2D. Only price/value are.

What about top-end now vs top-end iX? You completely disregard that like I said in my original response. It's stupid to try to make an argument that there's no performance upgrade if you are comparing a future base model to a current top-end. Even that article you linked talks about that.

 

[inertiat]

Steve Jobs is rubbing his hands together "mwahahaha argue my pretties, argue!"

 

[ryckmonster]

The problem is, by May Apple will be working toward launching the Ipad in other markets, like the UK, in June and Europe, possibly, at the same time. If there isn't a technical reason for delaying new MBPs then my bet would be mid to end of April if it isn't tomorrow or the 6th April.

Don't give your hopes up.. People have been saying "Oh well if its not this Tuesday I bet it is next Tuesday" for months now. I don't know what would make next Tuesday any more likely than six Tuesdays ago. The only logic I am seeing right now is to wait for the iPad buzz to die down. At least let it die down in the American market anyways..

 

[GTWH]

Don't give your hopes up.. People have been saying "Oh well if its not this Tuesday I bet it is next Tuesday" for months now. I don't know what would make next Tuesday any more likely than six Tuesdays ago. The only logic I am seeing right now is to wait for the iPad buzz to die down. At least let it die down in the American market anyways..

Yeah, cant argue with your logic there, the Ipad is definitely the focus for the next couple of weeks.

 

[Jeffois]

My Guess (with my logic):

I would imagine that the launch wouldn't go much past late April/early May. My thinking is that Apple wouldn't want to miss graduation with new 'Books at that point.

On the other hand, I know diddly about the chip supply and all the other things, let alone whether Apple truly does care about new laptops in the pipeline for graduation time...

 

[WHM]

I'm sorry you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was saying is that there is no increase -- not even marginal -- gained from (Core iX - C2D) clock for clock that you can't gain from (C2D_fast - C2D_slow) today. Therefore, if you are not looking at a top-end BTO today, performance isn't a reason not to take a C2D. Only price/value are.

Very well said !! People are waiting for an unknown? I gave up and bought a new 15' 2.6 AND COULD NOT BE HAPPIER... It's been a month and finally have all the files squared away and finally backed up the hard drive... by the time the upgrade comes out I will wait a few months and sell this one. I had an early 2008 pre unibody but loaded... $2,700 invested and sold it early Feb for $1500 and feel I got a good price and only cost me $300 to update with the educational discount.. I will do it agin in 6/9 months and I have lost no sleep waiting on an unknown date for the refresh... get a life people!!

 

[john123]

John123, are you an Apple spy, hired to work this board to convince as many buyers as possible to buy up the remaining stock of the current MBPs? If not, you should be getting paid because you've nearly convinced me to give up the waiting game.

Ha, I wish. It's just all about value, not performance. That's really my point.

What about top-end now vs top-end iX? You completely disregard that like I said in my original response. It's stupid to try to make an argument that there's no performance upgrade if you are comparing a future base model to a current top-end. Even that article you linked talks about that.

Dude, I acknowledged that straight-up in my very first post on the subject. If a person has to be a jetsetter and has to get the fastest machine possible, then no duh, the high end Core iX will beat the current high end Core 2 Duo. That said, however, if you really NEED that much speed, then you already have a desktop to do your serious crunching -- something I've already said on these forums. What you call "stupid" is ultimately a comparison of value vs time of purchase. It's pretty friggin' relevant, even though you'd like not to believe so.

 

[deadlydingo]

Ha, I wish. It's just all about value, not performance. That's really my point.



Dude, I acknowledged that straight-up in my very first post on the subject. If a person has to be a jetsetter and has to get the fastest machine possible, then no duh, the high end Core iX will beat the current high end Core 2 Duo. That said, however, if you really NEED that much speed, then you already have a desktop to do your serious crunching -- something I've already said on these forums. What you call "stupid" is ultimately a comparison of value vs time of purchase. It's pretty friggin' relevant, even though you'd like not to believe so.

I agree that that's pretty important to a lot of people, which is why I don't go around criticizing people for not waiting and getting a MBP now. If you go out and buy one right now, that's a GREAT decision and more power to you. I'm sure you will thoroughly enjoy your computer because lets face it, it really is a great computer. You came in and started flaming each person who even mentioned the iX processors. My very first post as a member on this forum was when I said that I was happy there might be a new processor in the works and the FIRST response was basically a condescending "why? it's useless." type response from you based on an unfair comparison and when I stood up for my opinion (which was simply that the new processors are going to be faster) you got all defensive. Regardless, this is a stupid argument and it has gone on way too long. My final two cents: if you want one now, go out and get it cause it will be a fantastic computer and I'm sure you will love it. I'm not in a huge hurry so I'm willing to wait a bit longer for the upgrade.

 

[john123]

I'm just going to quote my own original post on this topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlydingo
but I REALLY want an i7/i5 processor. I may not need it, but I definitely want it. Fingers crossed....
Why? You realize that unless you're getting top-of-the-line, the percentage speed bump you can have with Core iX can be had today simply by getting a faster Core2 Duo than you were going to get in the first place, right? For people looking at the entry level models of, say, the 15", Arrandale really is a non-issue on every dimension other than what you'll pay.

It isn't my fault if people twist my language.

 

[deadlydingo]

If I misunderstood your intent, then I am truly sorry. I just felt as though you were criticizing every person who even mentioned the iX processors and that you did so without backing it with legitimate reasoning. Let's face it, I'm itching to get a new MBP and I want the upgraded specs. Stop criticizing me for wanting it.

 

[john123]

Hey, there's a reason I'm following this thread too. I'm itching to get one as well!

 

[deadlydingo]

Hey, there's a reason I'm following this thread too. I'm itching to get one as well!

Ahh...mac. Common ground is gooood. Seriously, I'd even be happy with some outragous page 2 rumors at this point. I'm itching for some news, even if it is wrong. Where did Job's son go?

 

[Cuju]

Ahh...mac. Common ground is gooood. Seriously, I'd even be happy with some outragous page 2 rumors at this point. I'm itching for some news, even if it is wrong. Where did Job's son go?

lmao... And I too would like to see any news on the new MBPs, roamming these forums everyday is killing me on the inside

 

[Symetry]

I think most of you nervous nancy's, various butthorns and the usual impatient 8 year olds disguised as would-be adults are just going to have to come to terms that it's iPAD iPAD iPAD iPAD iPAD iPAD iPAD iPAD iPAD for the next two months. You're not going to see a new Macbook Pro until this summer.

 

[entatlrg]

I was all wrapped up in update fever ... here at our office we have 13 and 15" June '09 MBP's and a few MBA's ... couldn't be happier they handle everything we throw at them ... still working great.

I feel for the people who 'need' to upgrade or buy because you don't want to have the old tech at full price when the new tech has to be just around the corner ...

Maybe buy a refurb to save some money ... in my long experience now you're better off doing that then buying a win machine just to get i5/i7...

 

[john123]

Maybe buy a refurb to save some money ... in my long experience now you're better off doing that then buying a win machine just to get i5/i7...

I second this. Refurb/used is an excellent way to bide your time.

 

[Symetry]

I second this. Refurb/used is an excellent way to bide your time.

Agreed. You'd be better off buying a 2001 iMac clamshell than just buying a windows machine for an i5, IMO.