MacBook Pro Updates Imminent (Really), Part Numbers Appear

[Apollo33]

Not to be Donald the Dork here, but not all 1080p streams are made the same. Blu-ray offers a higher bitrate (meaning more quality, less compression) than nearly all downloadable 1080p sources. Too tired to find the linkage, but if the finished file is smaller than 25GB (capacity of single-layer blu-ray disc), then the Blu is likely better.

This is why I have no real desire to buy movies from iTunes. (in any case, iTunes only offers 720p currently)

Yes, iTunes uses h.264 which is one of the best video codecs currently available... However, it's just part of the MPEG-4 spec which is also used for Blu-ray movies.

Thus a Blu-ray movie is likely using a similar codec (if not the same h.264 codec) for video. I don't foresee iTunes having 25 GB movie files for download in the near future. (especially since that'd take up a lot of space on most harddrives)

Even if iTunes offered 1080p movies for download, it's very likely that they'd be compressed down to 5 GB (maybe more, but probably not). That's a fifth of the space of a SINGLE LAYER Blu-ray disc. I think some movies might even use two layers. Sure, as the file size increases, the loss of quality becomes less and less noticeable, but I think most people would be able to tell the difference between a 5GB movie and 25GB movie.

Another thing Blu-ray offers that Apple probably won't for quite some time: Lossless audio. (sometimes uncompressed, which I don't really understand... there's plenty of great lossless codecs out there, but I guess they don't need to worry about space on Blu-ray discs) So iTunes movies (if they even had surround sound) would still have compressed audio, which would also be another downside.

Apple really just needs to get off their "We know best" mentality and put Blu-ray into their devices. Not doing so isn't going to make me want to buy iTunes movies... it's just making me hold off on getting a new Mac (like Mac mini --HDMI would also be nice-- or 27" iMac).

 

[commander.data]

I have it from a pretty good source on the technician side (think Genius repair manuals sent out ahead of a launch) that these are in fact the updated MBP models, and that they do not include a 13" model update.

The higher prices are due to Blu-ray reader drives (the writers add $300) for each of the 15" and 17" models. He didn't know if it was something that you could down-grade (making it cheaper) but that does seem likely from the days of SuperDrive/ComboDrive options.

Other than that, nothing super special to report - slightly longer battery life, greener technology, newer graphics cards, slightly cheaper RAM modules, etc. - no mention of USB 3.0 or FW3200.

Supposedly these will mark the start of Blu-ray options across the board, with the Mac Pros updated in April/May and the iMacs in May/June. He didn't think the Mac Mini would receive an update, just that Blu-ray would become a new option -- around the same time as the iMacs (I guess they want all the pro machines to go first).

That's what I hear, time will tell.

Very interesting. Quickly standardizing on Blu-ray across all Macs is exactly what I've been supporting to quickly grow the installed base so that we can move over to single Blu-Ray disc releases instead of multi-DVD releases of software suites and games as soon as possible.

Please let the GPUs be ATI DX11 tech. Although if the NAB event is true, that gives the opportunity for Demo Time which works best with Optimus. Any chance of IPS screens? Would be an ideal compliment to Blu-ray drives. Hopefully, Apple isn't changing the form factor to 16:9. If cheaper RAM means 8GB standard on the high-end 15" and 17" models that would be amazing, although unlikely.

 

[tombilske]

Is there a media event scheduled for next week?

If not I think we can come to 2 conclusions, either:

1) It's not coming out Tuesday.

2) It's going to be a minor upgrade, so we should keep our expections low.

do you consider the updates to the iMac and the MacBook in October minor?? iMac got a 27" display for the first time ever, moved all its displays to 16:9 and all IPS displays, changed the shape of its enclosure and came standard with a wireless keyboard and a brand new wireless mouse.
Also the MacBook completely changed its enclosure (polycarbonate unibody) and offered specs on par with the lowest 13" MBP
If thats a minor upgrade then i hope the MBP gets a minor upgrade!

My point is that for all of these upgrades, Apple only did a silent update. There was no event, simply a press statement.

Therefore i dont think that just because there isnt an Apple event scheduled for next week, we wont see a good bunch of updates

Here's hoping...

 

[twilightrose]

Very interesting. Quickly standardizing on Blu-ray across all Macs is exactly what I've been supporting to quickly grow the installed base so that we can move over to single Blu-Ray disc releases instead of multi-DVD releases of software suites and games as soon as possible.

Please let the GPUs be ATI DX11 tech. Although if the NAB event is true, that gives the opportunity for Demo Time which works best with Optimus. Any chance of IPS screens? Would be an ideal compliment to Blu-ray drives. Hopefully, Apple isn't changing the form factor to 16:9. If cheaper RAM means 8GB standard on the high-end 15" and 17" models that would be amazing, although unlikely.

I really hope they don't have optimus....it seems like such a fluke. Sure, the auto GPU switching is nice for battery, but thats the only upside that I can see about optimus. ATis mobile gpus of the same range are just as powerfull, and use less energy and run colder, really see no reason to use nVidia this time around :/

 

[novodigo]

My predictions:

- Macbook/Pro refresh in May (i5/i7, no blu ray, no HDMI, ATI or Arrandale graphics only)
- Mac Pro refresh in June 2010 (gulftown xeon 6-core CPUs)
- Mac Mini & MacBook Air due Christmas 2010 (core i3/i5 CPUs)
- No iMac updates until Q1 2011

I'm really not expecting any Macbook update soon. The MBP will probably get updates to i5/i7 on April.

 

[Sir Cecil]

Does that mean one could burn Blu-Ray discs on an outboard Blu-Ray burner connected directly to the MBP, with no additional software etc?

 

[dcoux09]

do you consider the updates to the iMac and the MacBook in October minor?? iMac got a 27" display for the first time ever, moved all its displays to 16:9 and all IPS displays, changed the shape of its enclosure and came standard with a wireless keyboard and a brand new wireless mouse.
Also the MacBook completely changed its enclosure (polycarbonate unibody) and offered specs on par with the lowest 13" MBP
If thats a minor upgrade then i hope the MBP gets a minor upgrade!

My point is that for all of these upgrades, Apple only did a silent update. There was no event, simply a press statement.

Therefore i dont think that just because there isnt an Apple event scheduled for next week, we wont see a good bunch of updates

Here's hoping...

Yes, I think everything you said would be a minor upgrade. Bigger screen, new mice (that many people dislike), and a wireless keyboard is far from innovative and definitely substandard to what was already on the market from other manufacturers. (And who cares if there is a "new shape" to iMacs? Really?) Too often Mac users are content with shabby upgrades. Ram and hard drive space should be cheaper now; if they lower the price, install new processors, put in a blu-ray drive, install HDMI, and incorporate USB3, it's still not a MAJOR upgrade. And I doubt there will be HDMI and USB3, making this next upgrade extraordinary substandard, especially if they don't even touch the 13 inch MBP. You're really on the cutting edge with your laptop specs there Apple.

Apple distances itself from PC's because of its OS. Hardware is lacking sufficiently.

 

[laela]

I have it from a pretty good source on the technician side (think Genius repair manuals sent out ahead of a launch) that these are in fact the updated MBP models, and that they do not include a 13" model update.

The higher prices are due to Blu-ray reader drives (the writers add $300) for each of the 15" and 17" models. He didn't know if it was something that you could down-grade (making it cheaper) but that does seem likely from the days of SuperDrive/ComboDrive options.

Other than that, nothing super special to report - slightly longer battery life, greener technology, newer graphics cards, slightly cheaper RAM modules, etc. - no mention of USB 3.0 or FW3200.

Supposedly these will mark the start of Blu-ray options across the board, with the Mac Pros updated in April/May and the iMacs in May/June. He didn't think the Mac Mini would receive an update, just that Blu-ray would become a new option -- around the same time as the iMacs (I guess they want all the pro machines to go first).

That's what I hear, time will tell.

No mention of a screen resolution bump on the 15" to accompany the Blu-Ray, I assume?

/me hopeful

 

[commander.data]

I really hope they don't have optimus....it seems like such a fluke. Sure, the auto GPU switching is nice for battery, but thats the only upside that I can see about optimus. ATis mobile gpus of the same range are just as powerfull, and use less energy and run colder, really see no reason to use nVidia this time around :/

I completely agree. nVidia Optimus can't even increase max battery life. The best battery life you can get is running IGP only. nVidia Optimus only increases battery life if you accidentally leave the laptop in discrete GPU mode for too long. Optimus' relevance is determined by whether the Arrandale's IGP is insufficient for what the average user would be doing while on battery and I'd argue that in general Arrandale's IGP is fine for most tasks on battery. I would think most people while on battery would just be doing web surfing, word processing, other office work, video watching, maybe some photo editing. Arrandale's IGP is good enough for that and can accelerate H.264, offer Flash acceleration at least on Windows, and even do light GPGPU tasks since Intel is writing a DX11 Computer Shader driver for Windows so Apple could work with Intel to write an OpenCL driver for OS X. If Arrandale's IGP is good enough for tasks on battery, than that negates nVidia Optimus which is really nVidia's only mobile GPU advantage this generation other than probably price. Hopefully Apple won't be ignoring ATI's better performance/watt and feature set simply for price, which they probably wouldn't pass on to consumers anyways given price points are generally static to component fluctuations.

If Apple does go with ATI GPUs, hopefully they still work out no-logout GPU switching as is the case in Windows with ATI GPUs. No-logout near instant manual GPU switching is good enough for me, since I don't really intend to constantly be switching back and forth between the IGP and discrete GPU anyways.

 

[offwidafairies]

Are you SERIOUS??? I've lived with a 2006 White MacBook the past 4 years. I'm a Senior Software Developer / Architect at my company. (Been in the field for 15 years). I also create iPhone apps on the side. My White MacBook is looking a little rough, but it does everything I need it to do. It's a little slow sometimes, but I can get everything done.

I'm looking to upgrade my screen from 13" to 15", and get a faster processor to speed up my development a bit, but I can still wait a few more years if necessary. It would be NICE to get a new MacBook Pro, but I don't NEED to.

What, exactly, do you do that your masters project is 'falling apart' because you don't have the latest and greatest? What if you did this same project 2 years ago - would it have been impossible???

my 2007 mbp was coping OK, but died. this is the second hdd to die. plus usb ports are dodgy which was a pain. hence needing a new one.

i'm using max msp and doing audio stuff that is processor intensive.

having said that, i'm running a lot of it (not all) on my 1.66 mini 10v. but again, it cannot cope with intense live processing.

my masters is in sound design and performance.

 

[laela]

I completely agree. nVidia Optimus can't even increase max battery life. The best battery life you can get is running IGP only. nVidia Optimus only increases battery life if you accidentally leave the laptop in discrete GPU mode for too long. Optimus' relevance is determined by whether the Arrandale's IGP is insufficient for what the average user would be doing while on battery and I'd argue that in general Arrandale's IGP is fine for most tasks on battery. I would think most people while on battery would just be doing web surfing, word processing, other office work, video watching, maybe some photo editing. Arrandale's IGP is good enough for that and can accelerate H.264, offer Flash acceleration at least on Windows, and even do light GPGPU tasks since Intel is writing a DX11 Computer Shader driver for Windows so Apple could work with Intel to write an OpenCL driver for OS X. If Arrandale's IGP is good enough for tasks on battery, than that negates nVidia Optimus which is really nVidia's only mobile GPU advantage this generation other than probably price. Hopefully Apple won't be ignoring ATI's better performance/watt and feature set simply for price, which they probably wouldn't pass on to consumers anyways given price points are generally static to component fluctuations.

If Apple does go with ATI GPUs, hopefully they still work out no-logout GPU switching as is the case in Windows with ATI GPUs. No-logout near instant manual GPU switching is good enough for me, since I don't really intend to constantly be switching back and forth between the IGP and discrete GPU anyways.

Too bad ATI drivers suck so bad though. Have they done anything about that yet?

 

[twilightrose]

I completely agree. nVidia Optimus can't even increase max battery life. The best battery life you can get is running IGP only. nVidia Optimus only increases battery life if you accidentally leave the laptop in discrete GPU mode for too long. Optimus' relevance is determined by whether the Arrandale's IGP is insufficient for what the average user would be doing while on battery and I'd argue that in general Arrandale's IGP is fine for most tasks on battery. I would think most people while on battery would just be doing web surfing, word processing, other office work, video watching, maybe some photo editing. Arrandale's IGP is good enough for that and can accelerate H.264, offer Flash acceleration at least on Windows, and even do light GPGPU tasks since Intel is writing a DX11 Computer Shader driver for Windows so Apple could work with Intel to write an OpenCL driver for OS X. If Arrandale's IGP is good enough for tasks on battery, than that negates nVidia Optimus which is really nVidia's only mobile GPU advantage this generation other than probably price. Hopefully Apple won't be ignoring ATI's better performance/watt and feature set simply for price, which they probably wouldn't pass on to consumers anyways given price points are generally static to component fluctuations.

If Apple does go with ATI GPUs, hopefully they still work out no-logout GPU switching as is the case in Windows with ATI GPUs. No-logout near instant manual GPU switching is good enough for me, since I don't really intend to constantly be switching back and forth between the IGP and discrete GPU anyways.

I personally wouldn't mind having to logout-switch(yes it is a pain but) if it ment having a much nicer ATi GPU to nVidias current offerings, I'd gladly take it over optimus' advantages. But yes, I'd much rather not have to logout to switch the GPU's, and in personal opinion I would rather have it manual switch instead of auto-hardware determination.

 

[offwidafairies]

and ps it wouldn't have been possible 2 yrs ago

 

[twilightrose]

Too bad ATI drivers suck so bad though. Have they done anything about that yet?

ATi and nVidia both have their driver problems, just as both have ups and downs for the physical hardware. More ontopic to the question though, yes ATi drivers are getting better lately

 

[RatherBeReading]

Just a quick question...though I run the risk of sounding really stupid (I'm not a huge tech guy, just an everday kind of user), I have to ask: am I, as a student soon going to college for geology, going to notice the difference between a core 2 duo processor and an i3/i5 processor? I'm not talking miniscule .0005 second differences, but actual differences that I would notice with everyday use (i.e. using iWork/MS word, a geologic graphing program or two, using the Internet, music, reports, etc.)? I'm planning on getting a 13" pro after the update happens whether the 13" pros are upgraded or not. Thanks for your help!

 

[twilightrose]

Just a quick question...though I run the risk of sounding really stupid (I'm not a huge tech guy, just an everday kind of user), I have to ask: am I, as a student soon going to college for geology, going to notice the difference between a core 2 duo processor and an i3/i5 processor? I'm not talking miniscule .0005 second differences, but actual differences that I would notice with everyday use (i.e. using iWork/MS word, a geologic graphing program or two, using the Internet, music, reports, etc.)? I'm planning on getting a 13" pro after the update happens whether the 13" pros are upgraded or not. Thanks for your help!

No, probobly not. The realworld noticability is miniscule, however, if you plan on using graphics software waiting to see what the refresh brings will be a good idea, as it will have new GFX cards as well which would help for your geologic graphics programs, ontop of waiting will most likely make current models cheaper in the end anyway if thats the route you wanted to take.

 

[commander.data]

Too bad ATI drivers suck so bad though. Have they done anything about that yet?

In OS X? I don't know about drivers for recent ATI hardware, but nVidia drivers in OS X haven't exactly been rosy despite nVidia and Apple's supposed cosy relationship.

http://barefeats.com/imp04.html

When the 8800GT first shipped in the Mac Pro it's Core Image acceleration performance was slower than the much technically weaker HD2600XT. It took a few updates before that was fixed.

http://barefeats.com/harper22.html

Call of Duty 4 also showed poor OS X drivers for nVidia GPUs since ATI's HD3870 generated similar frame rates in CoD4 whether in OS X or Windows, while the 8800GT was slower in OS X compared to Windows.

A more recent example was a bug in nVidia's drivers in Snow Leopard 10.6.0 and 10.6.1 that made Bioshock stutter badly while this didn't occur across ATI's product line. Feral released a patch to try to help things, but the problem wasn't fixed until new nVidia drivers were released in 10.6.2.

As well, in terms of OpenGL 3.0 support in 10.6.3, it appears ATI has implemented more extensions than nVidia since I believe nVidia is missing ARB_depth_buffer_float. ATI has 22/23 extensions for OpenGL 3.0 on their DX10 GPUs, while nVidia has 21/23. The one common extension that is missing is GLSL 1.30 support which I think is actually Apple's responsibility since it's tied to Apple's higher level OpenGL front-end and Apple's software renderer.

Note the other interesting thing about Snow Leopard drivers is the effort put into bringing Intel IGP drivers up to speed. Leopard only had OpenGL 1.2 support for GMA X3100, while Snow Leopard brought it up to OpenGL 2.0 with all extensions to support OpenGL 2.1 in place. OpenGL 2.1 hardware support was supposed to be the Arrandale IGP's new feature but Apple already supports it on the 2 generation older GMA X3100. Seeing the GMA X3100 and Arrandale's IGP share the same architecture Apple has been preparing for the eventuality of more Intel IGPs even if it's not the preferred option.

 

[JohnWyatt]

Just checked all the macbook pro models at bestbuy and i almost all except for 2 are unavilable, and the 2 models that are availabe are only availabe at 2 stores out of the 6. Bestbuy wouldnt be low on all of them if something wasnt gonna happen. Ive been waiting to long for these to come out and i hope to god its tuesday.

 

[laela]

ATi and nVidia both have their driver problems, just as both have ups and downs for the physical hardware. More ontopic to the question though, yes ATi drivers are getting better lately

The thing is that ATI drivers have "getting better lately" for literally years now. The one thing I do know is that ATI drivers have sucked on all the platforms I've tried it -- Windows and Linux. I'm not sure about Mac, but if they can't get it right on Windows... then give me Nvidia any day.

 

[RatherBeReading]

No, probobly not. The realworld noticability is miniscule, however, if you plan on using graphics software waiting to see what the refresh brings will be a good idea, as it will have new GFX cards as well which would help for your geologic graphics programs, ontop of waiting will most likely make current models cheaper in the end anyway if thats the route you wanted to take.

Thanks, I am definitely going to wait for the update reguardless. If they (possibly) just upgrade the 15" and 17" on Tuesday and not the 13", I'll probably only wait till the end of June before getting one (I'm switching from pc so I'd like to familiarize myself with the system before I get to college). If apple hasn't upgraded the 13" by then, I don't think they are going to upgrade it before back to school time.

 

[laela]

In OS X? I don't know about drivers for recent ATI hardware, but nVidia drivers in OS X haven't exactly been rosy despite nVidia and Apple's supposed cosy relationship.

http://barefeats.com/imp04.html

When the 8800GT first shipped in the Mac Pro it's Core Image acceleration performance was slower than the much technically weaker HD2600XT. It took a few updates before that was fixed.

http://barefeats.com/harper22.html

Call of Duty 4 also showed poor OS X drivers for nVidia GPUs since ATI's HD3870 generated similar frame rates in CoD4 whether in OS X or Windows, while the 8800GT was slower in OS X compared to Windows.

A more recent example was a bug in nVidia's drivers in Snow Leopard 10.6.0 and 10.6.1 that made Bioshock stutter badly while this didn't occur across ATI's product line. Feral released a patch to try to help things, but the problem wasn't fixed until new nVidia drivers were released in 10.6.2.

As well, in terms of OpenGL 3.0 support in 10.6.3, it appears ATI has implemented more extensions than nVidia since I believe nVidia is missing ARB_depth_buffer_float. ATI has 22/23 extensions for OpenGL 3.0 on their DX10 GPUs, while nVidia has 21/23. The one common extension that is missing is GLSL 1.30 support which I think is actually Apple's responsibility since it's tied to Apple's higher level OpenGL front-end and Apple's software renderer.

Note the other interesting thing about Snow Leopard drivers is the effort put into bringing Intel IGP drivers up to speed. Leopard only had OpenGL 1.2 support for GMA X3100, while Snow Leopard brought it up to OpenGL 2.0 with all extensions to support OpenGL 2.1 in place. OpenGL 2.1 hardware support was supposed to be the Arrandale IGP's new feature but Apple already supports it on the 2 generation older GMA X3100. Seeing the GMA X3100 and Arrandale's IGP share the same architecture Apple has been preparing for the eventuality of more Intel IGPs even if it's not the preferred option.

Thanks for the info. Honestly, I have no data on ATI in Mac OS X. I simply haven't been impressed by any of the lousy ATI software I've been exposed to on other platforms. Nvidia on the other hand have a much better reputation in my book -- even if they have bugs (inevitable), in my view they had a good track history of dealing with the issue and providing awesome support.

If they are getting better now, then well, I'm hopeful. I do expect to dual or triple boot, so well, I do want ATI to be good across the board.

 

[JohnWyatt]

Thanks, I am definitely going to wait for the update reguardless. If they (possibly) just upgrade the 15" and 17" on Tuesday and not the 13", I'll probably only wait till the end of June before getting one (I'm switching from pc so I'd like to familiarize myself with the system before I get to college). If apple hasn't upgraded the 13" by then, I don't think they are going to upgrade it before back to school time.

I completly agree. Im getting one for college and it would be nice to get use to it before school starts. I have a good feeling that the 13" will be updated though.

and i cant wait to have the illumitated keyboard so i can type at night, haha

 

[tedobo]

Does that mean one could burn Blu-Ray discs on an outboard Blu-Ray burner connected directly to the MBP, with no additional software etc?

this has been possible since blu ray drives have been available. Os X even labels it as a BDR disc. you just cant watch Blu ray movies. I burn Blu ray discs all the time in OSX. But with Apple being at NAB the blu ray rumor seems highly likely. although $300 for a burner is ridiculous

 

[twilightrose]

The thing is that ATI drivers have "getting better lately" for literally years now. The one thing I do know is that ATI drivers have sucked on all the platforms I've tried it -- Windows and Linux. I'm not sure about Mac, but if they can't get it right on Windows... then give me Nvidia any day.

I have had absolutly no problems with my 5770 in my desktop,when the first driver5s came out it had openGL problems, then in the next revusion had slight d3d slowdown, but beyond that the cards ran perfect, no driver crashes, no bsods related to GPU error, no card lags. I agree in the past ati has had poor drivers, but they have turned around quite abit with their 5xxx cards

 

[twilightrose]

I completly agree. Im getting one for college and it would be nice to get use to it before school starts. I have a good feeling that the 13" will be updated though.

and i cant wait to have the illumitated keyboard so i can type at night, haha

Lol, the shiney keyboard