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ChickenSwartz said:
I think 4GB will be pushing it in a laptop, atleast in a Mac. That is, if you want 4x1GB. This will take up space and make more heat. We have all seen Apple's opinion on space and heat. However, it might not too far of a stretch for Apple to quietly make the MBP compatable with 2x2GB as far as power, etc., but not officiallty offer that.

Strangling the MBP when it comes to memory, as they have effectively done now, is hopefully a thing of the past soon.

It is, in my opinion, just too dumb to have a chipset that supports 2GB sticks, but not letting you put two of those in the MBP. It is true that the price of the 2GB DDR2 SO-DIMMs is still quite high (and would be even higher with the Apple Store premium...), but to artificially disallow the use of two 2GB sticks is still not justified.
 
erikh said:
Strangling the MBP when it comes to memory, as they have effectively done now, is hopefully a thing of the past soon.

It is, in my opinion, just too dumb to have a chipset that supports 2GB sticks, but not letting you put two of those in the MBP. It is true that the price of the 2GB DDR2 SO-DIMMs is still quite high (and would be even higher with the Apple Store premium...), but to artificially disallow the use of two 2GB sticks is still not justified.

Especially considering true 64-bit implementation requires 4GB of ram (from what I understand), I hope that apple will allow this in the updated MBP's.
 
HecubusPro said:
Especially considering true 64-bit implementation requires 4GB of ram (from what I understand), I hope that apple will allow this in the updated MBP's.

"True 64bit" doesn't require any specific amount of RAM.
 
gmckenzi said:
You're not the only one. For me, getting over the 2Gb barrier is a must; and for the same reason too...I need to be able to run Parallels and devote at least 1.5Gb to the Windows session without strangling the life out of my OSX side. I'll pay the premium -- it will still be cheaper than buying a carrying two noteboooks (one Windows, one OSX).

Unless you want to buy a very expensive Notebook, it's not cheaper...

Current 2GB PC-5300 DDR2 SO-DIMMs retail around $1600-1700 each, so a pair would cost more than a second MBP with 2GB would...
 
ergle2 said:
Unless you want to buy a very expensive Notebook, it's not cheaper...

Current 2GB PC-5300 DDR2 SO-DIMMs retail around $1600-1700 each, so a pair would cost more than a second MBP with 2GB would...

Hmm...maybe I should check prices before I open my yap eh?

Okay, so I'll have to come up with another way to rationalize it. Maybe I'll avoid medical fees resulting from carrying two laptops? Avoid ridicule from friends and double the hassle from airport security?

I'll think of something. ;)
 
ergle2 said:
"True 64bit" doesn't require any specific amount of RAM.

So what is the 4GB barrier I keep hearing people talk about when it comes to 64-bit? What requires 4GB to be effective when it comes to 64-bit?
 
HecubusPro said:
So what is the 4GB barrier I keep hearing people talk about when it comes to 64-bit? What requires 4GB to be effective when it comes to 64-bit?

Simple answer: With 64-bit computing the applications have the opportunity to address more than 4GB of memory, thus making it possible to use more than 4GB. In contrast, with an ordinary 32 bit processor, you would not be able to use more than 4GB.
 
gmckenzi said:
I need to be able to run Parallels and devote at least 1.5Gb to the Windows session without strangling the life out of my OSX side. I'll pay the premium -- it will still be cheaper than buying a carrying two noteboooks (one Windows, one OSX).


Have you thought about using Bootcamp? That is like having two laptops in one. And you can devote all your RAM to that OS.
 
erikh said:
Simple answer: With 64-bit computing the applications have the opportunity to address more than 4GB of memory, thus making it possible to use more than 4GB. In contrast, with an ordinary 32 bit processor, you would not be able to use more than 4GB.

With most recent (as in 2000 onwards or so) x86 processors 32bit processors/processors in 32bit mode, this also isn't true. PAE allows 16 4GB spaces for a maximum of 64GB memory but with a single maximum allocation of 4GB.

It's not as good as "true" 64bit for a variety of reasons (but might actually be faster in some cases...). MacOS X enables PAE on boot, but I've no idea if it implements full support for it. I know Windows supports it.

There's also another slightly different mode that implements the same thing, called PSE36.
 
ergle2 said:
With most recent (as in 2000 onwards or so) x86 processors 32bit processors/processors in 32bit mode, this also isn't true. PAE allows 16 4GB spaces for a maximum of 64GB memory but with a single maximum allocation of 4GB.

It's not as good as "true" 64bit for a variety of reasons (but might actually be faster in some cases...). MacOS X enables PAE on boot, but I've no idea if it implements full support for it. I know Windows supports it.

There's also another slightly different mode that implements the same thing, called PSE36.

Which is why I started my explanation with "Simple answer:". This explanation was the non-simple cousin of my post. :)
 
ChickenSwartz said:
Have you thought about using Bootcamp? That is like having two laptops in one. And you can devote all your RAM to that OS.

Yeah, I have thought about it, but I'm concerned about the impact on my workflow -- switching from Windows work, to email, to checking my calendar, to browsing, and back, etc. repeatedly during the course of a day.

The work I do on the Windows side isn't browser compatibility checking (I'm not a designer). For instance, I might be doing Java development for a few weeks, and while I can do Java development on the Mac side, sometimes my Java development needs to integrate with Windows-hosted software.

I'm very impressed with how well Parallels works, and now the VMWare has announced plans to release image-compatible Mac support I'll be able to work better with my colleagues who use VMWare on their Dell machines.

Anyway...all of this leads me to wanting a new Merom MBP with hopefully a capability to get over 2Gb.

My current mobile solution is a 8-month old 17" PB and a Sony Vaio (I run the Vaio with its lid closed and Remote Desktop to it from my PB), and I have a brand new 20" iMac at home that has allowed me to satisfy myself that intel Macs are more than suitable for developing on a Windows VM.

If a Merom MBP doesn't come out at Photokina, I'll simply give in and get a current MBP to replace my PB...but I know that once I do that, a Merom MBP will surely be released 15 days after I receive my non-Merom MBP. :(
 
HecubusPro said:
So what is the 4GB barrier I keep hearing people talk about when it comes to 64-bit? What requires 4GB to be effective when it comes to 64-bit?

A full 32bit address space is 4,294,967,295 bytes, which is 4GB.

Nothing requires 4GB -- 64bit processors just allow for a greater than 4GB flat addressable memory.

As noted above, the maximum limit on memory for modern x86 is much greater, but it's not a flat memory map -- it's in blocks of 4GB.

There's a down-side to 64bit addressing though -- pointers are 64bits long instead of 32bits long. This means 64bit code can be slower and consume more memory than 32bit code, depending what it's doing, since absolute addresses are twice as big.

This may be offset, depending on code. Calculation of values that have great-than-32bit results can be done more quickly and with x86 chips in 64bit mode, twice the number of registers are visible to the programmer.

As a result, it tends to roughly even out, with some code being significantly faster -- especially scientific number-crunching type apps.
 
erikh said:
Which is why I started my explanation with "Simple answer:". This explanation was the non-simple cousin of my post. :)

Quite. I'm at times given to pedantry on the technical... :)
 
atlendor said:
I agree. But I'm still hoping that Apple will launch an 11" MBP at some point in the future, perhaps to compete with the likes of Sony. That would be cool. :cool:
Therz a real good chance of that happening. Either a 12" notebook or a slimmer version of the mbp. the 12" powerbook was a huge hit, so they might bring it back in their line!
 
tekmoe said:
looking good boys. all of the pieces are fitting together now. delayed orders, resellers saying the same thing, BTO's taking much longer. i think it's finally gonna happen.

just a thought... what are we gonna talk about after it finally happens? :eek:
 
AppleKrate said:
just a thought... what are we gonna talk about after it finally happens? :eek:

Yes, appleintelrock, Santa Rosa I suppose...

Or the detailed iTV specs, or the likelihood of a new Apple PDA or an iPod-with-the-gizmo-of-the-month-integrated, or all else failing, we always have the good ol' (dare I say it?) "PowerBook G5 next tuesday" thing... ;)
 
steve jr. said:
...all the things that go wrong with this batch of machines :rolleyes: (hopefully very little or nothing)

Well, the likelihood that someone here will be disappointed by the new batch is very high. It's just a question of whether it will be 'multimedia' (because of a lack of user-replaceable HDD) or someone else (because of the new MBPs still missing 1920x1200 resolution, 2x2GB memory support, graphics cards with a real punch or any other 'requested' feature).
 
jericho878 said:
2.16 and 2.33 Merom options
Magnetic latch
MacBook style keyboard
New video card (Nvidia?)
160GB hard drive option

IMO, these are the least that Apple can do to keep up with other high performance notebooks in the market.

What are you smoking? macbook keyboard? ewww! no way!

but i agree on the best possible graphics card, at least as an option. and an option for 160GB hard drive.

it's the least they can do.

hell i would also love it if they offered the option for blu-ray drive.
 
ergle2 said:
Indeed. The big question is when they can update the MB?

Santa Rosa is currently expected no earlier than April. Assuming the MB's can't get Merom til, say, December, is it worth going C2D for ~4 months? (Assuming Santa Rosa is on-time -- which, to be fair, Intel's been pretty good at lately).

I don't get people's excitement over Santa Rosa. It is really a cpu for slim mini laptops. not a more desktop replacement model. it also has some more basic functions.

ie, the way i read the specs are that it is for macbook type, but higher end ones will use a better one. dunno
 
syklee26 said:
i do see some upgrade in the lowest level MBPs though....such as:

2.16ghz C2D
1440 x 900 resolution
1GB single sodimm (rather than 512mb ram)
100gb SATA drive with option upto 160gb
8x DL superdrive (or 8x superdrive without DL function)
NVidia 7300GT 128mb upgradable to NVidia 7600GT 256mb
one firewire 400 and two USB 2.0 (maybe they will add Firewire 800).

dude, you are wanting the wrong optional card. TOTALLY WRONG.
We want the option of this high end mobile card GeForce Go 7900 GTX 256 -512

this card is the best in market.
 
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