MacBook with Blu-Ray, Networked HDTV from Apple?

[Ping Guo]

Harddrives have an MTBF (mean time between failure) of several 100.000 hours. Having a harddrive for backup purposes only, you will probably come to an active working time of a couple of 100 hours at best. If you like, you could have the HD run a burn-in-cycle before using it as backup medium, as most of them fail either within the first hours or towards the end of their lifecycle (Gaussian distribution).

Interesting - so if I understand you, HD backup is actually more reliable than burned media backup? Aside from storing data, how would people utilize their BR drives on their laptops?

I personally don't watch DVDs on my laptop, but even if I did the advantages of BR over downloaded content would hardly be noticeable on such a small screen. Home theater of course, different story....

Just an idea, an external DVD drive that you could use in your home theater, and leave there 95% of the time. When (if) you need to burn or watch something on your laptop, you can just plug it in, or better yet, use a remote disk-type application.

 

[o0samotech0o]

Soon enough, Apple WILL Take over the world in everything.

-Sam

 

[o0samotech0o]

My 2 cents and more of my lofty ideas which won't happen this tuesday.

Why Apple's Cinema TV display will be different? And why now is a better time?

http://www.last100.com/2008/02/07/through-patent-filing-apple-hints-at-rich-future-of-appletv/


In the patent above, Apple has already envisioned iChat to be part of the experience. It also has various patents on DVR for TV programmes. Possible Apple proposition: You recorded Season 3: Episode 4 of Heroes of cable. But hey, you missed the rest of the first 3 Episodes..no worries, iTunes store can help you. Just buy the previous episodes on iTunes store via this new TV.

Now, one would say, why can't Apple just incorporate the DVR feature into just the Apple TV box? Why compete with the big boys on HDTV sets? I seriously do not think Apple is building a HDTV just to add DVR capability in it.

Here is what some of the features this Apple Entertainment TV Display (let's call it that) will have.

1) iSight build in
2) DVR recording (I take back from my previous post that it won't happen after seeing the patents) with inbuilt TV receiver
3) Mic/headset via Wireless or BT.
4) Book Reader
5) Games
6) Remote device that acts as a voice communication device as well.
7) Voice call/answering

Hardware
1) H264 built in decoder/encoder
2) new sleek remote with LCD screen
3) Docking station for ipod/iTouch

What this new Apple Entertainment TV Display possibly can do

1) simultaneously ichat/phone chat/video chat over the net while watching any programme

2) Connect via USB your digital camera and upload your pics onto the set and subsequently to Flickr

3) Upload via USB your videos to the set and later to Youtube.

4) Record video messages

5) A new e-book section. To browse your ebooks from iTunes store

6) It is so simple to use...my grandma will know how. (Remove complicated remotes of normal TV set)

7) automatically downsize your recorded programmes back to your iPod.

8) capture any video calls and sync back to your iPhone.


It is an almost complete entertainment TV.

The TV is all about content - it's not about the best speaker or LCD screen. It is not where Apple would compete. The idea where the computer pushes the content only to the TV is dead (like DVD). It is the entertainment TV that pushes back the content (upload video, pictures, etc within the set) to all the available computers (macs, pcs) in the house as well.

Your family comes back from a nice outing complete with new Video footages and digital photos. Instead of uploading into your mac and going through all the fuss of "Editing" and storing. All one needs for the super newbie is to plug your devices into the Apple Entertainment TV Display and immediately you can view. The reason is to make this thing as simple and easy as possible. Where someone with no computer experience is able to do easily. And to center the experience around the living room. Current TV allows you to play your video cam or photos on the tv...but recording? not possible.

Now if you really want to edit your pics, you still have your normal computers to do so as they will be streamed to your computers for editing if you so choose to. Remember the Apple Entertainment TV Display is supposed to be simple to use.

Now I called my parent who has a similar Apple Entertainment TV Display via the iChat button on screen. I share the new video and photos streaming from my computer to theirs or I upload to youtube or flickr and gives them a direct link - all the while chatting over iSight and the communication remote. Or Share this via iChat with a friend on his macbook. Your daughter picks up the files from her macbook and send to her friends.

The new Apple Entertainment TV Display picks up and records voice/video calls too. You will have a new telephone number. It is XXXX@ichat.com. You decided to call your mom, pap, galfriend...but they couldn't pick up the call. A video message is recorded. You will be notified when you are back home via your new remote or on screen display. Well if you don't like the new email number? you can dial via the normal telephone line which is built in too. Sync everyone's address book into the machine with privacy settings.

So what happens if a family is watching some programme on Apple Entertainment TV Display and your galfriend call? Simple. Pick up the call via your mac. or buy another voice remote set or use your iPhone/iPod touch with earpiece which will predetermine the user and all the calls will route to this particular set only. Without disturbing the show currently playing. Of course if you are watching a programme, the call can be just informed via your LCD screen on the remote. And not be shown on Apple Entertainment TV Display screen. It's your call. You set the preference and privacy settings.

Why a Apple TV with such soup up ability won't work standalone without the display. It needs to communicate back to the Apple TV the video processing of iSight and streaming real TV channels to the screen for recording. The HDMI won't cut it. By removing the HDMI, RGB outputs of the current Apple TV and incorporating the rest of the machine into the LCD TV, it will be more economical and design wise more aesthetically pleasing. Also we need to implement a dock into the machine and possible USB ports.

An all-in-box will solve much cable issues and cut down costs by using more standard size items than to source for miniature components and put into a Apple TV box. And the ability to incorporate some sort of gaming device/feature into this new Apple Entertainment TV Display much like Nintendo WII will be something interesting to see if it happens - a la proximity detector and 2D/3D game remote controller. What about controlling your TV via iSight and proximity detector? It will save lots of headaches with menus that needs lots of steps..and yes..no touchscreen because you do not sit that close to the media center. Maybe that's why you need a LCD screen...to build in proximity sensors. Somehow u can move objects on screen a distance away from the screen while holding the Apple remote? Apple already has some patents similar to Nintendo WII. Which allows you to zoom in and move things on screen.

There are a lot of endless possibilities for them to incorporate it into a nice package. Let's hope they do have something like that soon.

ARE you SURE that you don't work for Apple?

 

[GregA]

I have a BR player and a 1080i monitor.

Do you have a 1080i tube monitor?
Or a 1080p plasma/lcd (or 720p, or 480p)?

My father thought he had a 1080i plasma because that was the listed input. Turned out it downconverted it to 1024x768... which was actually very good for 5 years ago (and the same resolution as what I bought more cheaply 6 months ago). It's very common for plasma/lcds to list what inputs they accept - only recently have they advertised the resolution of their screens.

 

[te9055]

not exactly what Kevin said

what Kevin actually said at the live filming of diggnation was that he had no leeks from good sources and that all he had heard was their was going to be blue-ray drives but his sources are not reliable

 

[GregA]

The TV is all about content - it's not about the best speaker or LCD screen. It is not where Apple would compete. The idea where the computer pushes the content only to the TV is dead (like DVD). It is the entertainment TV that pushes back the content (upload video, pictures, etc within the set) to all the available computers (macs, pcs) in the house as well.

Your family comes back from a nice outing complete with new Video footages and digital photos. Instead of uploading into your mac and going through all the fuss of "Editing" and storing. All one needs for the super newbie is to plug your devices into the Apple Entertainment TV Display and immediately you can view. The reason is to make this thing as simple and easy as possible. Where someone with no computer experience is able to do easily. And to center the experience around the living room. Current TV allows you to play your video cam or photos on the tv...but recording? not possible.

Nice post. The above (and the rest of the post) convince me there is value in Apple having an actual TV - given they would want to control the whole screen experience, with an integrated TV & computer experience.

Expanding on the above - if you think of iPhoto now, an iPhoto on a TV as you describe could automatically load pictures from a camera, classify them as one event, and allow you to rate them as you watch them. There is very little management required beyond that. They could also sync to MobileMe or a computer.

 

[maxshanly]

Jason Calacanis stated at FOWA (during his presentation on Friday) that he sold Weblogs, Inc. for $30 million.

 

[KindredMAC]

Why quote the price for an external, when internals are much cheaper?

Even so, Newegg has an external reader for $135, and external BD writer for $370, not $500.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=blu-ray&bop=And&Page=2

Not so sure about that, there are drives which can read BD discs but not burn them which are much less expensive. those same drives can burn CD's and DVD's.

I really hope that Apple does have some great new tv's on tap, but I don't think that Apple TV ought to be done for. Alot of people will want tv's of other makes, To lose the mac mini or the apple tv would be a bad move.

so, lets not predict death for some items, just be happy for now that the product line is getting refreshed.

yay, finally Blu-Ray and maybe some really cool TV's. but.... i doubt the tv would get mentioned at the "notebook" event next week. apple doesnt double up announcements much anymore

Try around $380.00 US at NewEgg and a 6x burner no less!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136150

I would like thank everyone for quoting links to NewEgg.
But I'm having a problem finding anywhere in these listings where any of these drives have any Mac support built in already....

So just saying that you can find a cheap Blu-Ray player for a computer is useless on two fronts:
Front#1: Price..... Sure you guys found prices cheaper than I said off the top of my head. But just because Apple has built in support for DVD Burners still doesn't mean that I can go over to Best Buy and but the cheapest one they sell and expect it to work on my Mac.

Front#2: Player only.... A complete waste of time IMO. That is why I have had a PS3 for the last couple of years. It needs to be a burner in the computer market or it only holds a single use of playing a disc.

Sure I was off a tiny bit with my pricing when compared to shooting in a barrel of PC periphs but I like to use trusted people like here when buying Mac-COMPATIBLE items:
http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/Search.cfm?Ne=5000&Ntt=Blu-Ray&Ntk=Primary&Ns=P_Price|0&N=6866

I don't trust NewEgg when buying for MY Mac, but you may.

 

[richard.mac]

^ the Newegg Blu-ray drives will work fine on your Mac. you will be able to burn read/write to Blu-ray discs natively in OS X its just Apple hasnt updated DVD Player for Blu-ray movies and not all of their hardware is HDCP compatible yet.

 

[emaja]

I would like thank everyone for quoting links to NewEgg.

<snip>

I don't trust NewEgg when buying for MY Mac, but you may.

I was just using Newegg as an example of pricing for the drives. Apple will get a better price due to volume, so it is possible for them to include BD drives at their chosen price points.

 

[jcb10]

MMmm, sauerkraut

I'm so tired of hearing about blu-ray, the thought of buying blu-ray anything leaves a bad taste in my mouth, kind of like sauerkraut

You must have never had good sauerkraut. It's 8:54 a.m. here, and the thought of a kosher frank, with deli mustard and smothered in sauerkraut is making me salivate (and I just had breakfast)!

Which goes to the point of the story some people want sauerkrau (or Blu-Ray) as an option, some don't. And if we're willing to pay more, why deny us?

 

[rcook349]

Why do you guys want Blu-Ray?

I'm just curious why so many want a Blu-Ray drive in the next MacBooks. It seems like the trend is away from physical media, Jobs obviously supports that movement with comments he made when the Air was introduced.

Wouldn't it be better to not have the bulk of a drive in the laptop at all, and then hook to an external drive when needed?

Wht do people need drives expect to install the initial OS? Is it to watch movies? Do people really watch movies on laptops? Is that the main reason.

Thanks.

 

[jcb10]

Why the battery worry?

Personally, I wouldn't mind a blu ray player myself but I agree not if it is going to sacrifice battery life. I would rather more effort be put into the 'specs' of the computer

Well, it's only going to drain your battery if you use it to play Blu-Ray movies. If you're not actively using the drive, it's not going to take any power. In fact, I suspect, the drain is mostly when you're using it to decode processor-heavy Blu-Ray video. If you're just using it to decode less intensive data like CD-ROM, CD audio or DVD, it's going to use much less power.

 

[ubercool]

Wouldn't it be better to not have the bulk of a drive in the laptop at all, and then hook to an external drive when needed?

Wht do people need drives expect to install the initial OS? Is it to watch movies? Do people really watch movies on laptops? Is that the main reason.

Thanks.

A someone who just had to recover from an incredible crash in far-away Amsterdam, and who was lucky enough to bring that old-fashioned Leopard disk with me, I consider a built-in disk drive mandatory, until *Apple* and the *digital-downloads-loving Steve Jobs* offer a way to remotely reinstall an OS.

 

[rw3]

Wrong. They have stopped producing their own plasmas, and instead have opted to buy plasma display panels from Matsushita whilst retaining their processing unit in the panels themselves. They still have the best plasmas, or even so HDTV's, on the market today, period.

Wrong....they are now sourcing the panels from Panasonic and the Panasonic Plasma is the best plasma available. They have the best rating among plasma owning consumers, not to mention the best price point. The older Pioneer Elite Plasmas were way over priced for the very lack luster additional specifications they had over a comparable Panasonic.

 

[125037]

I can't believe that in 14 pages of Mac TV speculation no one has said

Mac HDTV Touch

I mean, HP has a touchscreen computer, why not have it on a tv? you could have a special thimble to put on your finger so you don't scratch/smudge the screen with all the contact with your finger

I know it doesn't really have a practical use, but I just wanted to throw that out there and see where it goes...

Seeing as how I will search for the remote for an hour before i will actaully go up to the TV and change the channel, (IMO) I would find that useless bc I am never actaully at my tv. It sounds cool, but useless. maybe like some high tech touch screen remote, o wait, we have them already! iPod Touch, iPhone meet my new......er, well they can't call it apple tv can they.

 

[Porco]

I'm just curious why so many want a Blu-Ray drive in the next MacBooks. It seems like the trend is away from physical media, Jobs obviously supports that movement with comments he made when the Air was introduced.

Wouldn't it be better to not have the bulk of a drive in the laptop at all, and then hook to an external drive when needed?

Wht do people need drives expect to install the initial OS? Is it to watch movies? Do people really watch movies on laptops? Is that the main reason.

Thanks.

1) I don't like or use wireless much.
2) I have a shelf full of Blu-ray Discs, not a shelf full of a trend towards downloads(!). I play them on my PS3, but I would love to be able to take a few discs with me if I'm not at home and play them on the portable machine.
3) My internet connection is not suitable for HD downloads even if I could accept the lower quality and need to store more big files.
4) I still buy most of my music on CD, though that might change eventually.
5) If/when they are writable, 50GB+ storage on a blank disc will be very welcome for back-ups and for burning HD video.
6) If people don't want an optical drive then fine, I have no problem with the Air or a new optical drive-less mac for people who want that. But I don't get why some people would want to deny those who do want one the option.

 

[Lucy Brown]

I for one will not upgrade my imac till I can have the option to at least add a blue ray drive to it. I'm sure it wont come standard with one right off the bat but I will pay extra for one, till then apple wont get any cash from me.

 

[Neodym]

Interesting - so if I understand you, HD backup is actually more reliable than burned media backup?

Basically yes - however this is a little bit too general. There are media variants (like MO or DVD-Ram, which was only named "DVD" to participate from the mainstream success of DVD's), which utilise different materials and structural approaches and thus are equally or even more reliable than HD backups. Unfortunately those are not being developed actively any more, so nowadays they lack of speed, size and support.

Your statement above is - in my opinion - true when you compare HD backups with mainstream CD's and DVD's. Those are heavily dependant on both media quality and the compatibility with each individual burning device. Even good-quality media can be defective a couple of months (in worst case even days) after being burned, if the CD-/DVD-burner is not properly adjusted or uses wrong burning settings etc. etc.

Bluray yet has to prove whether it can deliver on quality, what CD and DVD have promised.

Aside from storing data, how would people utilize their BR drives on their laptops?

*shrug* Same as before with DVD drives, only with bigger capacities. I'd guess only few people would really use it more than a few times directly after purchase (let alone going to its limits). Sometimes there may also be some "PC market has it, so we need it as well to not appear inferior..." - attitude.

Rgds
Neodym

 

[AidenShaw]

Great post!

(duplicate deleted)

 

[KissStephanie]

While I agree with the point you are trying to make, what problems exactly is Sony and only Sony responsible for? I thought the common misconception that Blu-ray = Sony that was around during the format war had long disappeared. I guess I was wrong.

Sony are the main reason for the current price of players, and also for the rights which makes it very difficult for people to playback movies unless their equipment is HDCP.

 

[AidenShaw]

Great post!

2) I have a shelf full of Blu-ray Discs, not a shelf full of a trend towards downloads(!). I play them on my PS3, but I would love to be able to take a few discs with me if I'm not at home and play them on the portable machine..

I also have a growing collection of BD movies, and it's nice to be able to load the same disc when I'm on the road, and not have to circumvent DMCA in order to make a crappier version to carry with me.

It's not about whether a laptop can show every pixel in 2.35:1 ratio - it's about one high quality medium.

Maybe when laptops have 5 TB disks and there's an SMF drop in every home and apartment we'll move to downloads only.

 

[Cave Man]

If what we're seeing is the form factor of the new MB(P), then I have a hard time envisioning a Blu-Ray drive, since they are larger than what would fit in the apparent size of the new computers.

 

[stewy]

the best news for me would be that they dump the combo drive entirely, the lowest end macbook would have a superdrive. After that the other macbooks and macbook pro's would have a bluray drive.

I couldn't care less about bluray... i really couldn't.

 

[markintellect]

If they do it though like combo drives on Macs expect the low end MacTv or whatever it is branded as to incorporate CRT technology.

Have you any idea what you are on about? Apple stopped selling CRTs 7 years ago! They are hopeless for full HD as well, and cannot be wall mounted, as well as being that you would have something which no-one would buy.