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macOS 13.2 Breaks Compatibility With Pioneer's CD/DVD Drives [Updated]

Yebubbleman said:
You have a beta program to allow developers to start working on your code. You also have a beta program to FIX these issues before they are released in the wild. However, to your point, there's minimal point to having a beta program when your RELEASE versions are effectively acting as betas in terms of instability and quality control.

The point is that it's not Pioneer's responsibility to fix something that Apple broke. Apple broke something that had been previously working. And, in the case of Pioneer, for a damn long while.
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So if you installed a third party SSD that has a defect that corrupts your data, is that Apple or the SSD manufacturer’s fault?
 
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goodcow said:
Optical media is still useful at times. macOS aside, UHD Blu-rays look and sound significantly better than streaming.
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Agreed. I’m in the process of starting a film & video transfer service, and a lot of the media people want transferred are of course stuck on optical media. Without CD/DVD support I can’t rescue their media from a burned disc that could potentially suffer from disc rot.
 
Mr. Dee said:
Then why would they have a beta program? If point updates are not expected to break things unexpectedly, why have a public beta program for it? Its to actually test, catch these things so the IHV can work with Apple to at least say, we are aware of a bug that might affect Pioneer optical drives. Please either refrain from upgrading or apply this patch. Apple can't be expected to make every single thing work. Besides, other brand optical drives are working.
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Functionalities with USB external drives seem very basic for a computer OS. Don’t tell me Apple didn’t even bother to test something like that.

And fact is there are people having their external USB drives stop working after the update. Yet we don’t see Apple patching anything yet. 🤷‍♂️
 
Mr. Dee said:
So if you installed a third party SSD that has a defect that corrupts your data, is that Apple or the SSD manufacturer’s fault?
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That's a pretty dishonest question in the context of this discussion. Of course it would be the SSD manufacturer's fault if the SSD had a "defect" that caused data corruption.

Now, if you were actually being honest, you would have asked "If you installed a third party SSD and it has been working perfectly fine for years and an OS update caused it to malfunction and corrupt data, would it be Apple or the SSD manufacturer's fault?"

Of course, I'm sure you know that the answer isn't going to be the one you're hoping for.
 
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ian87w said:
Functionalities with USB external drives seem very basic for a computer OS. Don’t tell me Apple didn’t even bother to test something like that.

And fact is there are people having their external USB drives stop working after the update. Yet we don’t see Apple patching anything yet. 🤷‍♂️
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Apple didn't test what? So far, it sounds like this only affects Pioneer drives and not any others. Should Apple do full regression testing against every device for every build?
 
Tagbert said:
Apple didn't test what? So far, it sounds like this only affects Pioneer drives and not any others. Should Apple do full regression testing against every device for every build?
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There are users here reporting that their USB external drives/SSDs failing to work/recognized by the OS after the update.
 
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jakey rolling said:
That's a pretty dishonest question in the context of this discussion. Of course it would be the SSD manufacturer's fault if the SSD had a "defect" that caused data corruption.

Now, if you were actually being honest, you would have asked "If you installed a third party SSD and it has been working perfectly fine for years and an OS update caused it to malfunction and corrupt data, would it be Apple or the SSD manufacturer's fault?"

Of course, I'm sure you know that the answer isn't going to be the one you're hoping for.
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It depends on what specifically the update did to "break" the device. Sometimes things appear to be working because of loose tolerances that give them a pass. Tightening up those tolerance sometimes proves that they were not working correctly to begin with. As I said before since this point release of MacOS is the the first version to support usb security keys, I imagine Apple did a lot of work to close the backdoors and tighten up security in their USB implementation. This may have exposed some third-party devices as not properly implementing the USB specification on their end. Who is at fault in that case? I'm sure you know that the answer isn't going to be the one you're hoping for.
 
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jwolf6589 said:
True. I have lots of movies on my Mac that was imported over years ago that cannot play with current versions of Mac OSX. These videos played just fine in Mac OS 8.
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What possible format are they in that vlc can’t play and handbrake can’t reencode?
coffeemilktea said:
Listen, I know there's people upset about not being able to use CDs and Blu-Rays, but is there any word on whether or not the last update breaks support for record players and cassette tapes, because that seems equally important.

How on earth am I going to play my grandfather's copy of Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon if I can't use a USB-connected record player? How will I listen to my dad's collection of Nirvana tapes? I might have to use modern forms of technology to consume media. 😤
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You mean the original mixes in full quality instead of lossy compressed remixes that sound like crap?
NEPOBABY said:
That an issue too.

The CDs that came out in the 80s before the loudness wars had the original mixes and volume that the artists intended.

Then studios ****ed up later releases.

Then the studios ****ed up the streaming releases.

Some streaming albums are now being remastered to sound like the first releases.

Same with movies. Some movies have been re-edited and made worse than they originally were.

So it is no surprise than people want to collect vintage editions on disc or vinyl.
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Bingo. ET and the Star Wars movies are perfect examples of later editing screwing things up, and streaking 4K can’t hold a candle to a 4K blu ray in terms of visual and audio quality. If you’re watching on a phone, sure, who cares, but in a big screen 4K uhd tv with 7.1 dts surround? No comparison.

I want to own my content (or at least the content I care most about), and be able to listen to or watch it offline, anytime, in lossless quality.

And even cds or lossless tips aren’t the best option, as anyone who has heard a dvd-audio or sacd disc on a high end system knows. Dark side of the moon is amazing!
 
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Yebubbleman said:
You have a beta program to allow developers to start working on your code. You also have a beta program to FIX these issues before they are released in the wild. However, to your point, there's minimal point to having a beta program when your RELEASE versions are effectively acting as betas in terms of instability and quality control.

The point is that it's not Pioneer's responsibility to fix something that Apple broke. Apple broke something that had been previously working. And, in the case of Pioneer, for a damn long while.
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absolutely right. no hardware manufacturer would expect an is patch to break something as basic as this. Apple broke the entire usb subsystem badly in Monterey and still hasn’t fixed the issues…and clearly now they’ve even made it worse.
 
Freida said:
You can own content digitally. CDs & DVDs are dead
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unless it’s drm free, it’s all licensed and not owned. it’s also reduced quality from the original - apples the worst offender there because they don’t support flac.

if you’re happy watching movies on a tablet and listening to music in a car or on AirPods, more power to you. But for those of us for whom quality, ownership, and availability matters, physical media remains king. Box wines may sell more gallons than bordeaux, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a place for both in the market.
 
MallardDuck said:
What possible format are they in that vlc can’t play and handbrake can’t reencode?

You mean the original mixes in full quality instead of lossy compressed remixes that sound like crap?

Bingo. ET and the Star Wars movies are perfect examples of later editing screwing things up, and streaking 4K can’t hold a candle to a 4K blu ray in terms of visual and audio quality. If you’re watching on a phone, sure, who cares, but in a big screen 4K uhd tv with 7.1 dts surround? No comparison.

I want to own my content (or at least the content I care most about), and be able to listen to or watch it offline, anytime, in lossless quality.

And even cds or lossless tips aren’t the best option, as anyone who has heard a dvd-audio or sacd disc on a high end system knows. Dark side of the moon is amazing!
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I can open my Palm Zire 72 videos from back in the day, but the old Quicktime videos that my 2003 Vivitar camera recorded dont play.
 
jwolf6589 said:
I can open my Palm Zire 72 videos from back in the day, but the old Quicktime videos that my 2003 Vivitar camera recorded dont play.
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must be some funky codec that vlc no longer includes. .avi files were notorious for that too.

one option would be to build a virtual machine of the older Mac OS, and use it to open and convert those files.
 
Rydawg96 said:
Agreed. I’m in the process of starting a film & video transfer service, and a lot of the media people want transferred are of course stuck on optical media. Without CD/DVD support I can’t rescue their media from a burned disc that could potentially suffer from disc rot.
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Aren’t Bluray discs supposed to last around 50 years (before they suffer from physical failure)?
 
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I’ve been having problem with USB external drives since Ventura.

Several of my drives randomly disconnect now. HDD and SSD. I have an old High Sierra Mac which is still rocksolid stable so I use that instead to transfer data to and from those external drives.
 
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jwolf6589 said:
I can open my Palm Zire 72 videos from back in the day, but the old Quicktime videos that my 2003 Vivitar camera recorded dont play.
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I wonder if those are using MPEG-2 codec. That was only available as a separate library file for a long time and I copied it from machine to machine for a few years. Haven’t done that in a while and don’t know where to get that anymore. If you know someone with a 10 year old Mac they might have it and might be able to convert to something more currrent.
 
Tagbert said:
I wonder if those are using MPEG-2 codec. That was only available as a separate library file for a long time and I copied it from machine to machine for a few years. Haven’t done that in a while and don’t know where to get that anymore. If you know someone with a 10 year old Mac they might have it and might be able to convert to something more currrent.
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It's not that big of a deal. The movies in those days had no sound and the resolution is so poor. But I got all my Palm Zire 72 videos which is more important. I also believe my blackberry Curve videos will play still as well, but these are also very very poor res.
 
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