macOS Sonoma Launching This Week With These New Features

[ignatius345]

Just thought, because they are actively selling m1 in the air and iMac does that mean the 5 years of new os compatibility for older Mac’s starts from after it goes off sale? I.e an m1 Mac should be able to run the new Mac OS that comes out in 2028?

A word of warning on this. Just because a device is technically allowed to run a given OS, doesn't mean it's going to run it as smoothly as the OS it shipped with.

I've made the move many times in the past (as I suspect others have) of getting tempted by new features to keep installing new OSes on older Macs -- and then seen them gradually slow down year after year until they're "getting slow" and I end up wanting to replace them. All well and good, if you're willing to pay for new hardware to keep up with the latest features.

BUT, if you're of a mind to extend the usable lifespan of a Mac, you'd do well to be careful of how far you take the OS updates, in my opinion. One way to help with this, too, is to "overspec" the machine and buy something faster than you need today, with more RAM than you need today, to account for the increasing software overhead a few years down the road.

My own base model M1 Air is running great on Ventura and I suspect it will on Sonoma as well. But whatever OS they have in 5 years may well run kind of clunkily, if the past is any guide.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

I’m going to be waiting and see what happens.

 

[btrach144]

It's not forced obsolescence because your iMac hasn't stopped working, and it is still going to get security updates.

Being told last week by my iPad that passwords I move into family password sharing won’t be available on my iMac sure feels like forced obsoletion nor does it feel very secure.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Being told last week by my iPad that passwords I move into family password sharing won’t be available on my iMac sure feels like forced obsoletion nor does it feel very secure.

That’s odd cause I don’t see that on my 2008 Mac Pro

 

[krakenrelease]

I miss Snow Leopard. Everything you needed and rock solid. When I got my 14 MBP, I couldn't even use my 4k monitor off Thunderbolt reliably for months. I'll wait till next year probably to update.

 

[coolfactor]

remember.... the purpose of yearly OS updates is mainly to obsolete older versions. Oh yeah, and throw the customers a bone of questionable new features

You make it sound like executives sit around a table plotting how they can obsolete the current release, with the intention of driving up sales.

There is another possibility... an opportunity to bring new features, new capabilities, new performance, more value.

As a software engineer myself, I don't plot how I can force my customers into a corner. That's a dark, sad way to live. Instead, my software naturally evolves as I get new ideas, learn new things, and as the technology landscape itself changes. My customers benefit from the upgraded releases.

Apple has constantly said they are driven by what they can give to users, not take. Here's a mirror to reflect on your comment.

 

[coolfactor]

So basically desktop widgets, safari tweaks and new screen savers.. so underwhelming

Those may be surface-level changes, but there's so much more under the hood.

It's like buying a new car that has an upgraded engine. You don't see the engine improvements, but they are still there.

 

[pshufd]

You make it sound like executives sit around a table plotting how they can obsolete the current release, with the intention of driving up sales.

There is another possibility... an opportunity to bring new features, new capabilities, new performance, more value.

As a software engineer myself, I don't plot how I can force my customers into a corner. That's a dark, sad way to live. Instead, my software naturally evolves as I get new ideas, learn new things, and as the technology landscape itself changes. My customers benefit from the upgraded releases.

Apple has constantly said they are driven by what they can give to users, not take. Here's a mirror to reflect on your comment.

Ventura was a significant upgrade for me for 3 reasons: enhanced hypervisor support, weather app and clock app. The latter 2 may sound like minor things but I was running Windows 10 in a virtual machine to have the weather displayed all the time.

These little creature comforts, along with larger functional upgrades can be quite appealing to a lot of customers.

 

[coolfactor]

I still believe there was no good reason to drop support for 32-bit apps. I have Steam games, video editing software etc. that functioned before but don't now. It's so stupid.

Supporting both 32-bit and 64-bit — different word lengths, which has a significant impact on how the hardware processes instructions — requires two sets of libraries be loaded, thereby making the computer half as efficient.

Is that really what you want?

 

[pshufd]

Supporting both 32-bit and 64-bit — different word lengths, which has a significant impact on how the hardware processes instructions — requires two sets of libraries be loaded, thereby making the computer half as efficient.

Is that really what you want?

It also requires additional transistors to support the 2 instruction sets and added decoder logic.

 

[Plutonius]

I'm going to consider downgrading to Mojave if this keeps up.

I stayed on Mojave for my desktop and laptop.

I'll upgrade to Sonoma when I get a Mac Studio this fall.

 

[CalMin]

Why they can’t release these features randomly throughout the year I don’t know. Apple has become a predictable boring mess. I guess I’ll still spend my money and download on day 1 etc.

I know you’re kidding about spending money, but I still remember waiting in line back in the day for a $129 boxed copy of OS X.

So we had widgets in 2005….Apple said “no this is dumb” and got rid of them…..now in 2023 widgets are a new thing….again…oook

it’s as if there are two camps inside Apple

My 2017 iMac is running just fine but isn’t supported? Seems like forced obsoletion.

Absurd that a fully packed iMac 27inch 5K from 2017 isn't allowed to run this iteration of macOS where it is just a tiny incremental upgrade from the previous one. It makes clear that Apple is all about profit maximalization these days.

Your iMac will do everything tomorrow it can do today. But anyone still on Intel should ready themselves for when macOS goes Apple silicon only. I remember when they dropped PowerPC support. That felt brutal.

5k 27" iMac users have been left high and dry now there is no equivalent product for them to upgrade to. Yes, I know they could buy the Studio Display and add a Mini or Studio but I know several people who have now abandoned the upgrade route because they are confused by Apple's change of direction. They saw the iMac as a one-stop solution that was straightforward to implement. They see the new solution as applying to professionals or at least prosumers. Those 27" users also don't want to downgrade to a smaller 24" option which is also beginning to look neglected. Just to top things off the ideal of a 5K screen to achieve appropriate scaling leaves limited choice - Apple or Samsung with the LG option having received poor reviews. I'm not sure why Apple has done this or if there are any stats to show a decline in purchasing by older, more casual buyers.

if there was a market there, Apple would chase it. I can only think that the 27 inch iMac simply wasn’t a big enough seller for them to re-engineer it in this generation. That sucks for those of us that liked it, but I suspect it won’t be coming back anytime soon.

But it is in a way, cause you don't get to run the latest OS. It gives at least the feel of obsolescence. And by the next iteration it will be.

Well, how long should we expect our machines to stay current? A 2017 iMac is now six years old? I don’t think Apple is obliged to keep them current 100% for many more years. Plus at some point they will drop support for Intel altogether because of the things that they can do with Apple Silicon. I think those will hurt the most when this happens will be anyone who bought an Intel machine circa 2019.

 

[Ethosik]

I still believe there was no good reason to drop support for 32-bit apps. I have Steam games, video editing software etc. that functioned before but don't now. It's so stupid.

Apple Silicon was the reason. Translating 32 to 64 bit then to Apple Silicon would be a lot more difficult for Rosetta than it is now.

 

[Plutonius]

Well, how long should we expect our machines to stay current? A 2017 iMac is now six years old?

I agree with most things but Apple should still source the batteries for a 2017 MacBook Pro (wear item) along with MacOS security updates.

The only option I had was to buy a third party battery and attempt to replace it myself (it did not go well ).

 

[pshufd]

I agree with most things but Apple should still source the batteries for a 2017 MacBook Pro (wear item) along with MacOS security updates.

The only option I had was to buy a third party battery and attempt to replace it myself (it did not go well ).

I had a local shop do a 2014 MacBook Pro this past spring. We've had not problems after they replaced the battery. This local shop has been around for a long time.

 

[darngooddesign]

Being told last week by my iPad that passwords I move into family password sharing won’t be available on my iMac sure feels like forced obsoletion nor does it feel very secure.

It’s not less secure, it’s less convenient.

 

[JMStearnsX2]

Exactly what features are you seeking in a mature desktop OS?

Stability

 

[btrach144]

That’s odd cause I don’t see that on my 2008 Mac Pro

It’s a warning given on your iOS 17 or iPadOS 17 device that your older devices are unsupported and will not be able to use password groups.

It’s also called out in documentation, “Note: If you move a password into the shared group, you can only access the password on a device using iOS 17, iPadOS 17, macOS Sonoma, or later.” Source

 

[darngooddesign]

It’s a warning given on your iOS 17 or iPadOS 17 device that your older devices are unsupported and will not be able to use password groups.

It’s also called out in documentation, “Note: If you move a password into the shared group, you can only access the password on a device using iOS 17, iPadOS 17, macOS Sonoma, or later.” Source

I wonder if that’s for people receiving the shared passwords. Your passwords may still be available via your keychain.

 

[Realityck]

Apple Silicon was the reason. Translating 32 to 64 bit then to Apple Silicon would be a lot more difficult for Rosetta than it is now.

That sounds right as Windows for ARM is only 64 bit. WWDC’s 2018 Mojave was last MacOS that supported 32 bit apps, 2 years later at 2020 WWDC the first ARM macOS DTK was available, and just a few months later the first AS Macs were released. How far this ARM supporting Sonoma MacOS has come since Big Sur is amazing.

 

[btrach144]

It’s not less secure, it’s less convenient.

Wrong One could argue that having to open up a password manager and viewing the password to manually enter it in opens yourself to shoulder surfing, “In computer security, shoulder surfing is a type of social engineering technique used to obtain information such as personal identification numbers (PINs), passwords and other confidential data by looking over the victim's shoulder.” Source

So it’s less secure and less convenient. Security isn’t just well coded software. It’s the entire package.

 

[Thisismattwade]

Widgets on the desktop will be neat, I hope. I'll probably wait till the ".1" Sonoma update.

My family uses our (base) M1 MBA as just about the most "basic" users you can imagine. However, I think it'd be cool to not have to swipe left to see Weather/Calendar/Reminders/Photos (my current setup).

 

[CalMin]

Stability

That's an entirely reasonable ask. But it's not a new feature. Ventura has been solid for me.

My 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel) was super flaky when docking/undocking. Since moving all my Macs to Apple silicon, I've seen very few KPs. (Probably two in total under Ventura, which I attribute to MS Teams badly written electron app).

I am, however, very picky about the apps I run. If they don't run natively on Apple silicon, I don't install them. Developers who haven't recompiled to Universal aren't moving with the times or keeping their apps up to date. I think that helps a lot with stability because most of the apps I use are actively updated.

I will, gulp, be upgrading in-place Ventura to Sonoma on 2 of my 3 Macs. The one where I saw the KP's is my main business machine and will wait for the 14.1 or 14.2 release and will be rebuilt from a clean install of the OS. It was last clean installed on Big Sur, so it's time to get it freshened up again.

 

[Macaholic868]

Any word on whether or not OpenCore will be updated to support Sonoma? The last update I found was from June where they said they thought it would be 6 months or so and it sounded like the biggest issue for Macs whose support was dropped for Sonoma was the wireless stack. It sounds like Apple removed it for those models. Has anybody heard anything more?

 

[ss2cire]

Don't forget the new and exciting bugs!

Not bugs, undocumented features!

——————-

In all seriousness though, this is mostly the first time I haven’t been that excited to upgrade. Although that new gamer mode sounds pretty slick.