macOS Tahoe: A Pattern of Poor Usability and Design Regression

[svenmany]

This is a recycled first world problem that happens just about every year on this forum with iOS, iPadOS, macOS etc. I can't run macOS 26 and I would like to but my 2018 Mini doesn't support it.

It is different this time around. Well, it is certainly different for me.

Since you aren't running macOS 26, perhaps you should wait till you've spent a good deal of time with it to develop an opinion. Your having an opinion at this time is just you guessing.

I originally liked it. I voted "yes" in the poll about Liquid Glass on this site. A bit later I changed it to "meh". Then, later still, I changed it to "no". It took a bit of using it to realize we have a significant problem. I had to pay careful attention, stumble across egregious problem areas, think about the challenges of other users, and consider the training I've had in UI design over the last 35 years.

 

[Kal Madda]

I don't. I buy the cheapest most inexpensive Mac which is the base model Mini.

None of that matters. The computer powers on, it works and it functions basically the same. People cry for change and when they get it, they then complain they don't like the change. This is a pattern with just about every tech company. Google is no different, they changed the look of all their icons where they all blend in and it's hard to tell them apart. But you know what? You learn to adjust and move on.

People complain that Apple has lost its way and they just happened to produce the worse version of [insert latest OS]. A year later the newest OS is the worse and the previous OS which was hated on the forums is now considered to be their best effort.

This is a recycled first world problem that happens just about every year on this forum with iOS, iPadOS, macOS etc. I can't run macOS 26 and I would like to but my 2018 Mini doesn't support it.

Absolutely this, 100%! 👍🏻. Every new thing Apple releases people go after in these forums claiming Apple’s “losing their way”, supposedly “don’t care about their customers”, “made the worst mistake ever”, etc. fill in the blank, and then when the next thing comes, that first one was the best thing ever, and the new thing is the worst. It’s an endless spiral…

Look at this brouhaha over Tahoe, for example… When Apple introduced macOS Big Sur with a new design language and new app icons, people were freaking out in forums like this and going on and on about how “awful”, “Fischer-Price”, and “unprofessional” it supposedly looked… Yet fast forward a few years, and Sequoia (using the same design language these people were previously complaining about) is “professional”, “sleek”, and the shining example of what macOS should be or look like, or whatever… 🙄🤦🏼‍♂️. Just wait, when Apple introduces the next visual style years down the road that will come after Liquid Glass. The people complaining about Liquid Glass today will be complaining about that new design and praising how great the Liquid Glass UI looked… 🤷🏼‍♂️

This is just cyclical, and very annoying that people always want to raise such a stink over any little change or new thing… 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

[01cowherd]

This is just cyclical, and very annoying that people always want to raise such a stink over any little change or new thing… 🤦🏼‍♂️

Nobody is forcing you to stick around on these "very annoying" threads that "raise such a stink".

 

[Kal Madda]

*** Full disclosure: My Apple tools do not use Tahoe or IOS 26. Neither have I used Tahoe or 26. And I have never personally seen them in action. My MacIntel MBP is on still on Big Sur 11.7.10 and my 13mini is still on IOS 18.6.2.

My comment on Tahoe is not informed by personal experience, and is without merit to those who have hands on experience.

….

So, I truly wonder about the quality of the creative briefs behind Tahoe and IOS26 - and the quality of the executives that approved them. Especially when I think of the attached IOS26 article. I will assume that Tahoe download rates will be similar when that data is reported.

Thank you for acknowledging that. I respect that. I do have personal experience with both, and so can say I have not had any problems with either in terms of the new design.

Mostly what I wanted to point out is that articles like the one you cite claiming low iOS 26 adoption rates are basing such claims on very faulty data. This linked article explains one of the problems with said data:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...but-reports-of-extremely-low-rates-are-flawed

I’ve also heard that they’re comparing data from a shorter period of time for iOS 26 vs the other OS versions being compared.

 

[Kal Madda]

Nobody is forcing you to stick around on these "very annoying" threads that "raise such a stink".

No, nobody is forcing me to, but someone needs to provide some balance… 🤷🏼‍♂️

And you can’t really escape this anti-new stuff attitude in this forum. It bleeds into other threads, and happens every single time Apple introduces anything new. 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

[fisherking]

The big difference here is that it BREAKS SO MANY rules of accessibility. Rules do not change just because customer wants a new OS design. They stay EXACTLY the same.

interface rules (invented by people) can also be amended or changed (by people). we're talking about human concepts, not scientific facts...

 

[Kal Madda]

I think there's a strong difference between 'These UI elements are inconsistent/look bad and I don't like it' and 'there are many bugs in this OS that makes using my computer harder.' But writing off people's actual experiences, screenshots, videos, and so on as 'opinions' is exactly why we have so many of these threads.

Every time someone posts an issue they're having, there's a constant stream of condescending 'That's just your opinion, it's fine for me so it's a you problem why do we even talk about this?', then more people chime with similar issues and we get great conclusions of 'Ok fine yes, there are some bugs in your opinion but just live with it since Apple knows best.'

That thread gets pushed down after the fanboys shout down everyone else through endless 'polite' (read: condescending) posts. Someone else has the same issue, and they post a new thread instead of reviving an old one. Do we think Apple added a 'tint' switch to the display settings instead of accessibility just for fun?

I've been pretty open that I like the way LG aims to look (my homeassistant dashboard has been doing something similar with CSS for a few years now), but the bugs that I've experienced (not being able to use TimeMachine, buttons moving or vanishing, confusing visual hierarchy, and so on) are about the actual OS functions not working as well as they could.

It's one thing to upgrade from an OS to a new look and not like it, I think that happens to everyone at some point. It's another to upgrade and immediately have trouble reading the same menu text and tooltips as the old OS in the new OS or having your first time machine backup balloon to several hundred gigs (and never actually backup, even after a new drive/fresh OS install), or just completely refuse to work with your dock.

The problem is when people conflate some rare bug they’re encountering with the whole OS version as if that’s what everyone is encountering, or as if it’s a universal issue for everyone inherent to the new OS version. Legitimate bugs should be resolved, and Apple does their best effort to do just that. And I try to offer helpful solutions for those who are encountering such bugs where I can.

But the comments complaining about rounded app window corners and such make it a lot harder to sift through and determine what is legitimate bug vs random complaint about the new OS version… 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[Cape Dave]

interface rules (invented by people) can also be amended or changed (by people). we're talking about human concepts, not scientific facts...

So, you are saying that light gray text on a medium gray background somehow becomes readable? I do not think THAT fact changes very much.

 

[Kal Madda]

Tahoe is ruining Apple's reputation, although it was on its way with the ridiculous System Preferences that is disjointed and difficult to navigate. People complained about it but Cook never brought back the old System Preferences.

No, Tahoe isn’t ruining anything. And the old System Preferences didn’t make any sense and required extra clicks to navigate. It was a lousy and stupid design, and I will not miss it for a second. It was such a pain in the neck to have to navigate, and was needlessly different from all of Apple’s other platforms. The new Settings setup is much better, requires less clicks to navigate, and the sidebar structure is more consistent with other Mac apps, the Settings apps for all of Apple’s other platforms, and other systems people use today….

 

[ThomasJL]

View attachment 2596814

The screenshot on the left is UI design that was pioneered by Apple. The screenshot on the right is UI design that was pioneered by Microsoft.

Apple pioneered skeuomorphism. Microsoft pioneered flat design.

For over two decades, Microsoft copied Apple by using Apple-pioneered user-freindly skeuomorphism. Then Microsoft pioneered user-unfriendly flat design. Then Tim Cook became CEO and was so clueless and mediocre that he allowed Apple to copy Microsoft. And here we are over one decade later, and Apple is still copying Microsoft by using flat design along with flat design variants such as neumorphism and now glassmorphism.

 

[Kal Madda]

obviously tahoe will run exceptional since that is the latest model.
which is great since that OS excels on later m-series chips

we m1 are not in the same boat.

I’m using an M1 Mac Mini with Tahoe, and it runs butter smooth. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[steve333]

No, Tahoe isn’t ruining anything. And the old System Preferences didn’t make any sense and required extra clicks to navigate. It was a lousy and stupid design, and I will not miss it for a second. It was such a pain in the neck to have to navigate, and was needlessly different from all of Apple’s other platforms. The new Settings setup is much better, requires less clicks to navigate, and the sidebar structure is more consistent with other Mac apps, the Settings apps for all of Apple’s other platforms, and other systems people use today….

I don't know anyone who agrees with this take. The old System Settings were much easier to navigate

 

[Kal Madda]

I don't know anyone who agrees with this take. The old System Settings were much easier to navigate

It was not. At least not for someone who picked up a Mac after an iPhone (a very large percentage of new Mac users, btw). Options that made no sense to be grouped together were grouped together anyways due to a limited number of primary categories, and practically non-existent sub-categories due to each category essentially being a single long and cluttered page one had to scroll through. In order to switch between primary categories, I had to click the back button to go back to the dumb icon grid page to then select another category, and vice versa. There was just a ton of extra clicking and popping in and out of pages that made no sense. It wasn’t consistent with every other Apple platform. And every other primary system Mac app used a sidebar structure, except for the dumb Preferences app, because it just had to be different for no good reason… I hated that setup with a passion. The new Settings app is exactly what I wanted, and just makes so much more sense.

 

[throAU]

as a point of reference my MBP2010 was quite zippy under os10.6 and is sluggish at best under os10.13 - expecting a hardware system to work as quickly under succeeding software systems seems to be a pipe dream at best

to be fair, your machine was designed to run macOS from 7 releases prior; time and technology moves on.

and its not just “bloat”. new internet standards for encryption, video, audio, etc.

 

[throAU]

I'm in the same boat. I'm in the market for an M5 Mac, and would have had one by now but between Tahoe inherent instability

Examples?

Tahoe for me has been one of the most stable macOS releases I’ve run since snow leopard - M4 max.

 

[throAU]

consider the possibilities. for example:

1. stay on current mac and don't update the OS to tahoe
2. move to tahoe and get on with life
3. sell current mac and put that money towards a PC
4. move to tahoe and complain endlessly on this forum

am guessing that, for most people, 1, 2 or 3 would be the most rewarding options

Even better.

do 1 or 2 and actually give apple feedback

 

[throAU]

I say forget it, learn unix - single user boot into Darwin (it will be helpful to know how to code at this point) and get to work, those annoying ui problems (user interface or is short for urinary tract infection) will be history

Switching to linux or windows because you don’t like Tahoe “usability” is like going back a horse and cart because you don’t like that new cars have touch screens.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Switching to linux or windows because you don’t like Tahoe “usability” is like going back a horse and cart because you don’t like that new cars have touch screens.

Ehhhh, Gnome 49 is incredibly good and it’s literally faster and smoother with animations thanks to its dynamic triple buffering. I’m running Debian on a mini pc as a server and it’s matched to a 300hz display. It’s bloody fast and looks great when I need to tinker with it. Debian is absolutely rock solid and thanks to flatpaks and the like, installing apps isn’t the command line copy and pasting affair they used to be. Linux is quite simple these days if you want it to be.

However, I’m on an M4 mini for day to day personal use thanks to the ecosystem integration. You really can’t beat it if you’ve gone all in.

 

[tenjikuronin]

Switching to linux or windows because you don’t like Tahoe “usability” is like going back a horse and cart because you don’t like that new cars have touch screens.

Horse and buggy? Have you ever used Linux? Right now KDE is more consistent than Tahoe, and where it isn't...at least someone isn't getting paid to make it worse.

Plus, "horse and buggy," I wonder why 95% of my steam library plays on Linux and its more like 30% on Mac??

And at least Linux lets me install the apps I want without treating me like an idiot or a child. But maybe some folks don't like being treated like an intelligent adult, with their operating system second-guessing their choices every twenty seconds.

 

[Wolf1701]

And at least Linux lets me install the apps I want without treating me like an idiot or a child. But maybe some folks don't like being treated like an intelligent adult, with their operating system second-guessing their choices every twenty seconds.

I agree that Linux is slowly improving over time.

As for the rest, I don't know if I'm an idiot or an eternal child, but with a couple of terminal commands, I can install whatever I want on macOS.

 

[tenjikuronin]

As for the rest, I don't know if I'm an idiot or an eternal child, but with a couple of terminal commands, I can install whatever I want on macOS.

You've never had Gatekeeper stop you from installing something you downloaded from the internet, and then have to go into System Preferences to allow it?

I use Homebrew but not everything is in HB - just yesterday I installed some mouse software that the OS didn't like. Plus the nanny operating system wants to tell me every 30 days that Google Meet or Alttab can access my screen (I did turn that off). Whenever I use Rio or Raycast Tahoe demands I re-give them access to outside folders.

Because sure, it's only 3 clicks for security, maybe a few more for software to access to Accessibility, and one terminal command to turn off the screen sharing notifications, and one click every time I use Rio or Raycast, but I also don't like the implications of my nanny operating system keeping me from installing software, and all this unnecessary babysitting from the OS is adding up. If you enjoy fighting the OS (or don't install anything you get on the internet), more power to you, I just think it should do what I tell it to; it's an OS not a kiosk.

When I started using OSX, people called Macs toys, but that wasn't really accurate. Because of Darwin, you could do a lot of powerful stuff and it seemed like Apple cared about power users. Hell, does anyone remember way-back-when Apple advertised that Macs wouldn't nag you as much as Windows machines? I run Linux, Windows, and Mac on various machines, and Tahoe is giving Win11 a run for it's money in terms of unnecessary notifications.

It seems like in every release since the big cats Apple has done at least one thing to make the OS more restrictive, and it feels like it is becoming more toy-like (or maybe like an amusement park) so that you can freely install software (if you get it off the app store), buy music and movies (off their respective stores) but when you try to slightly get off the beaten path (for the crimes of using open-source software or using an app that clearly accesses the screen) some security guard is there to usher you back to attractions.

And again this is all besides the increased illegibility of Tahoe when using Liquid Glass, the harder to parse square icons, and the harder to read be-iconed menus.

 

[throAU]

Ehhhh, Gnome 49 is incredibly good and it’s literally faster and smoother with animations thanks to its dynamic triple buffering. I’m running Debian on a mini pc as a server and it’s matched to a 300hz display. It’s bloody fast and looks great when I need to tinker with it. Debian is absolutely rock solid and thanks to flatpaks and the like, installing apps isn’t the command line copy and pasting affair they used to be. Linux is quite simple these days if you want it to be.

However, I’m on an M4 mini for day to day personal use thanks to the ecosystem integration. You really can’t beat it if you’ve gone all in.

It’s not the graphical UI, it’s everything else. any modern OS has a usable GUI. Where linux fails is things like network filesystem integration.

 

[maflynn]

nd would have had one by now but between Tahoe inherent instability

Tahoe has been very stable for me, as was Sequoia.

I was critical of Tahoe and there's definitely a number of things that I may not like, but I was pleasantly surprised by it. I was expecting my mac to burst into flames upon install 😛 but its a solid upgrade, no issues (knocks on wood)

 

[Wolf1701]

It seems like in every release since the big cats Apple has done at least one thing to make the OS more restrictive, and it feels like it is becoming more toy-like (or maybe like an amusement park) so that you can freely install software (if you get it off the app store), buy music and movies (off their respective stores) but when you try to slightly get off the beaten path (for the crimes of using open-source software or using an app that clearly accesses the screen) some security guard is there to usher you back to attractions.

And again this is all besides the increased illegibility of Tahoe when using Liquid Glass, the harder to parse square icons, and the harder to read be-iconed menus.

So it's not that I completely disagree that Apple is a little restrictive in what a user (who is not tech-savvy) can do compared to the past.

However, we must also consider the new users of an ecosystem that has become “accessible to everyone”.

Obviously, some of us have never needed a digital babysitter operating system... but as long as they give me the option (via command line) to bypass certain limitations... I understand that they are not protecting ME but others who are MUCH less accustomed to dealing with malware and the like.

I completely agree about Tahoe's graphics... it really seems designed for children and without any terminal “tricks” to improve it (they've been closed).

I recently stumbled upon a piece of software (autosrt) that had to put instructions on how to bypass the gatekeeper on its homepage... no problem, you just need to know what to do and, if necessary, reactivate it... because nowadays even experts can fall into the trap (it's always a game of cops and robbers).

 

[avkills]

It was not. At least not for someone who picked up a Mac after an iPhone (a very large percentage of new Mac users, btw). Options that made no sense to be grouped together were grouped together anyways due to a limited number of primary categories, and practically non-existent sub-categories due to each category essentially being a single long and cluttered page one had to scroll through. In order to switch between primary categories, I had to click the back button to go back to the dumb icon grid page to then select another category, and vice versa. There was just a ton of extra clicking and popping in and out of pages that made no sense. It wasn’t consistent with every other Apple platform. And every other primary system Mac app used a sidebar structure, except for the dumb Preferences app, because it just had to be different for no good reason… I hated that setup with a passion. The new Settings app is exactly what I wanted, and just makes so much more sense.

The problem with the new "Settings" style is that many things that were obvious to get to are not so obvious anymore. Lots of clicking on 3 dot buttons to find manual settings. I am somewhat used to it now, but more often than not it is just easier to type what you want in the search bar instead of navigating 400 categories until you find what you want.

It makes sense on the phone and iPad the way it is, not so much on a desktop computer.

Windows is pretty much the same mess.

Personally I think High Sierra has probably been the best visual version of the OS, however I really do miss the 3D looking dock, that was cool.

People who actually do intensive computational and graphical work on their computers would probably agree that wasting CPU and GPU cycles on candied GUI elements is stupid.

I for one hate the extreme rounded corners on windows. I would challenge anyone to come up with a single good reason to have rounded them as much as they are in Tahoe for macOS. It is probably not that big of a deal with iOS and iPad OS since those devices are more than likely running full screen all the time anyway; and the displays are rounded on all 4 sides, so it would look like your pulling it from the rounded corner, which make sense for those devices.

I am going to laugh my ass off if the new studio displays have extreme rounded corners like iPads and iPhones.