macOS Tahoe: A Pattern of Poor Usability and Design Regression

[Kal Madda]

OK, fair enough. But one would thing the GUI should be able to handle that and adjust, no? I mean it's 2026 after all… And (like I said), that's actually part of my criticism – why are the GUI elements so dependent on the content for legibility? Is that really a design style worth aiming for? 🤔

Are you talking about the contact card? If the system forced a text color onto users that contrasted with the background, it wouldn’t truly be customizable. It would be “customizable” with big handrails… 🤷🏼‍♂️. With great power comes great responsibility. Apple provides full customization for contact cards, so those who choose to customize their contact card should make sure they use colors that contrast well, though some may make poor choices too with it. Again, I don’t see how the system could “adjust” in this scenario without breaking the entire premise of full user customization. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[star-affinity]

Are you talking about the contact card? If the system forced a text color onto users that contrasted with the background, it wouldn’t truly be customizable. It would be “customizable” with big handrails… 🤷🏼‍♂️. With great power comes great responsibility. Apple provides full customization for contact cards, so those who choose to customize their contact card should make sure they use colors that contrast well, though some may make poor choices too with it. Again, I don’t see how the system could “adjust” in this scenario without breaking the entire premise of full user customization. 🤷🏼‍♂️

It could change the gradient of the clock, Wi-Fi strength etc. on a scale from black to white depending on the content to maintain contrast. 🤷‍♂️🙂

 

[Kal Madda]

It could change the gradient of the clock, Wi-Fi strength etc. on a scale from black to white depending on the content to maintain contrast. 🤷‍♂️🙂

Ok, so you’re just talking about the status bar elements and not the rest of the contact card? That’s fair. Though I will point out, iOS has never really flawlessly handled this. This was a thing years ago. So it’s not like it’s a problem with Liquid Glass or version 26. It’s been the case for a while. 🤷🏼‍♂️. So while it is something that could be improved, it is not really a fair critique of version 26 or Liquid Glass, as this behavior predated this update. 👍🏻

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I think the core issue is getting lost here. This isn’t about general opinions on the look or style of the GUI — it’s about contrast and legibility in specific UI states.

Bingo.

 

[Sniper08]

That’s an apples to oranges comparison… The neighbor has come over to the property line and is pestering me incessantly about how awful the car is. I go into my garden to tend my plants, and he’s there. I go to my fence to give it a fresh coat of paint, and he’s there too. I mow my lawn, and he’s there, walking along my mower shouting at me about how terrible and awful it is, and how I must not have good taste because I like it… That’s the experience of being in this forum. People inject this stuff everywhere in the forum. There’s a vocal subset of the forum who’s decided everyone must know how much they dislike Tahoe, and how you must have poor taste or be an “Apple shill” or whatever if you like it… 🙄🤦🏼‍♂️

Furthermore, this is not a private discussion. This is a public one. If you want a private discussion, you can set up a private thread for you and likeminded individuals. But this is public, people have just as much right to share their positive opinions as you do to share your negative ones…

If you're unwilling to acknowledge and answer the question as its stands, then don't waste your time dishonestly modifying a question for a lazy gotcha.

Who is forcing you to look at these threads? Who is forcing you to post and respond?

Also, if your only reason is that 'it's a public discussion and it's my right' then you're not actually here to discuss, but you're only here to push your viewpoint.

Probably for the same reason why people do have an issue need their perspective continuously restated - Maybe because MacRumors is a discussion forum

What value does saying 'I don't see any issues' bring to a discussions about issues multiple people are experiencing?

This message is another example of not wanting to read or understand. We are not denying a discussion, but let's be clear... block against block leads nowhere (and in any case, the title of the discussion is crystal clear).

Again: try to create a separate counter-discussion that illustrates the merits of Tahoe. It would be welcome and interesting.

A lot of these users who 'don't see an issue' never answer directly why they're so insistent on making sure that everyone knows they have no issue with Tahoe. They'll keep talking past you and misrepresenting your questions on purpose.

 

[Sniper08]

I disagree. my experience with Tahoe has not shown any legibility issues.

I understand your experience is that you're not liking what you're seeing, but truth be told, what you're dealing with doesn't mean everyone is dealing with it. I think overall, with the exception of a few issues, Tahoe's UI is fine

Contrast has been lowered in several areas in Tahoe, that is an objective fact. There are numerical measurements that can be used to objectively measure this if you want an objective measurement.

More importantly, how can you 'disagree' with someone's experience looking at something with your own? Do you have access to their eyes?

 

[fisherking]

If you're unwilling to acknowledge and answer the question as its stands, then don't waste your time modifying a scenario for your convenience.

Who is forcing you to look at these threads? Who is forcing you to post and respond?

Also, if your only reason is that 'it's a public discussion and it's my right' then you're not actually here to discuss, but you're only here to push your viewpoint.



What value does saying 'I don't see any issues' bring to a discussions about issues multiple people are experiencing?



A lot of these users who 'don't see an issue' never answer directly why they're so insistent on making sure that everyone knows they have no issue with Tahoe. They'll keep talking past you and misrepresenting your questions on purpose.

hmm, this seems like one of those 'everyone else has an issue, it's not me' posts.

consider your own behavior on the thread. seems you're 'only here to push your viewpoint' 🤔. but isn't everyone pushing their viewpoint? and isn't that a big part of discussion? with the (hopeful) intent of ppl seeing each others POV... something that rarely happens 🤣

 

[maflynn]

More importantly, how can you 'disagree' with someone's experience looking at something with your own? Do you have access to their eyes?

I'm pointing out that his experience is not being shared by me, and as such his statement of fact is not fact, but opinion

 

[maflynn]

What value does saying 'I don't see any issues' bring to a discussions about issues multiple people are experiencing?

That I fail to see any issues - not sure how you're not understanding that, but that's ok.

 

[Sniper08]

hmm, this seems like one of those 'everyone else has an issue, it's not me' posts.

consider your own behavior on the thread. seems you're 'only here to push your viewpoint' 🤔. but isn't everyone pushing their viewpoint? and isn't that a big part of discussion? with the (hopeful) intent of ppl seeing each others POV... something that rarely happens 🤣

When I use the phrase 'push a viewpoint' I'm talking to people who write past a post and specifically misrepresent it to push forward their message.

For example, the many times I've asked you why you keep saying people are 'scared' or 'panicked' of opposing viewpoints and you respond with a reaction and say nothing.

For another example, the many times others have asked you to elaborate and you refuse to say anything beyond referring back to your original post.

If you want a discussion, you share viewpoints. That means you; acknowledge other POVs, explore other POVs, try to learn from other POVs. You share your own and expand on it to help others learn

If you want to push a viewpoint, you; disregard other POVs, claim others' experience as invalid, and most importantly; avoid any self-reflection or exploration. If someone asks you a question, you avoid it or answer in a glib and useless manner.

 

[Sniper08]

I'm pointing out that his experience is not being shared by me, and as such his statement of fact is not fact, but opinion

Are you unable to comprehend that this fact has been shown in this thread multiple times? For example, dark green backgrounds with light green writing being more difficult to see than black writing on a white background?

If you're saying that contrast has not decreased as a fact, you are wrong. If you can see it with no issue, great, but it doesn't change the reduction in contrast.

That I fail to see any issues - not sure how you're not understanding that, but that's ok.

What does maflynn 'failing to see any issues' add to the discussion?

 

[Kal Madda]

If you're unwilling to acknowledge and answer the question as its stands, then don't waste your time dishonestly modifying a question for a lazy gotcha.

Dishonest? That’s a tall claim… I merely highlighted the fact that I didn’t come searching for this thread, this thread came to me in my feed…. This is a discussion that seems to seep into several threads here on MacRumors. And yes, I chose to engage with a thread that showed up in my feed, since my feed is bombarded with this stuff whether I want it or not, just as anyone else here has… 🤷🏼‍♂️. That isn’t a crime…

Who is forcing you to look at these threads? Who is forcing you to post and respond?

It was delivered into my feed… Did anyone force me to look or respond? Not strictly, though it’s impossible to be in this forum without getting bombarded by these kinds of things, even seeping into unrelated threads, so I can’t really effectively “avoid” or “ignore” the topic in this forum… I’m well within my rights replying to claims being made in public threads that showed up in my feed…

Also, if your only reason is that 'it's a public discussion and it's my right' then you're not actually here to discuss, but you're only here to push your viewpoint.

False. It is a public discussion, and it is my right to share my views/opinions, and push back against claims made in said public discussion. I’m “pushing my viewpoint” just as much as you are yours… 🤷🏼‍♂️

What value does saying 'I don't see any issues' bring to a discussions about issues multiple people are experiencing?

There’s actually quite a bit of value in people sharing their experiences without issues. It may help in troubleshooting the issue as a problem with one’s settings, a bug they’re encountering, or a problem with the way they’re using said thing (yes user error is a thing, and it can be very common with software and computers)… And I could also similarly ask what value does repeatedly saying over and over again “I see these “issues”” have?…

Furthermore, most of these people here are making broad truth claims, not just claims or personal experience. They are making claims like “Tahoe is unreadable”. When this is just not even close to being universally true… Or other claims like “Tahoe runs poorly”, as if it’s a universal truth for all. So other people here like myself are rightfully pushing back on said truth claims, and sharing our experiences that prove these claims are not universally true for all…

A lot of these users who 'don't see an issue' never answer directly why they're so insistent on making sure that everyone knows they have no issue with Tahoe. They'll keep talking past you and misrepresenting your questions on purpose.

And I could similarly say that a lot of these users who hate Tahoe never answer directly why they’re so insistent on making sure that everyone knows they hate Tahoe…. This is an open discussion. People are allowed to say they like Tahoe and have no issues with it just as much as people are allowed to say they hate Tahoe and have issues with it… That’s the whole point of discussion. It wouldn’t be much of a discussion if everyone just agreed and self-congratulated each other about how right they are… 🤷🏼‍♂️.

 

[Sniper08]

Dishonest? That’s a tall claim… I merely highlighted the fact that I didn’t come searching for this thread, this thread came to me in my feed…. This is a discussion that seems to seep into several threads here on MacRumors. And yes, I chose to engage with a thread that showed up in my feed, since my feed is bombarded with this stuff whether I want it or not, just as anyone else here has… 🤷🏼‍♂️. That isn’t a crime…

It was delivered into my feed… Did anyone force me to look or respond? Not strictly, though it’s impossible to be in this forum without getting bombarded by these kinds of things, even seeping into unrelated threads, so I can’t really effectively “avoid” or “ignore” the topic in this forum… I’m well within my rights replying to claims being made in public threads that showed up in my feed…

False. It is a public discussion, and it is my right to share my views/opinions, and push back against claims made in said public discussion. I’m “pushing my viewpoint” just as much as you are yours… 🤷🏼‍♂️

There’s actually quite a bit of value in people sharing their experiences without issues. It may help in troubleshooting the issue as a problem with one’s settings, a bug they’re encountering, or a problem with the way they’re using said thing (yes user error is a thing, and it can be very common with software and computers)… And I could also similarly ask what value does repeatedly saying over and over again “I see these “issues”” have?…

Furthermore, most of these people here are making broad truth claims, not just claims or personal experience. They are making claims like “Tahoe is unreadable”. When this is just not even close to being universally true… Or other claims like “Tahoe runs poorly”, as if it’s a universal truth for all. So other people here like myself are rightfully pushing back on said truth claims, and sharing our experiences that prove these claims are not universally true for all…

And I could similarly say that a lot of these users who hate Tahoe never answer directly why they’re so insistent on making sure that everyone knows they hate Tahoe…. This is an open discussion. People are allowed to say they like Tahoe and have no issues with it just as much as people are allowed to say they hate Tahoe and have issues with it… That’s the whole point of discussion. It wouldn’t be much of a discussion if everyone just agreed and self-congratulated each other about how right they are… 🤷🏼‍♂️.

If you want to learn how to use the forums and avoid stuff delivered to your newsfeed, you can read this: https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201299756-Forum-Tips-and-Tricks

Every thread has buttons to jump to new, Watch the thread, Wikitools, and Ignore. You can try it here: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...sability-and-design-regression.2476149/ignore

I'm not sure why you're ascertaining that it is a public discussion and that it's you're right to participate when that's exactly what I said. I said if that's your only justification then it's not in the spirit of discussion, rather stifling it or pushing your perspective over-top of others. And it seems you're proving my point here.

This inability to infer opinion from fact is weird and concerning.
If I say 'My Mac's been slowing down' am I saying All Macs have been slowing down?
If I say 'This new update is hard to read', am I saying 'The new update is hard for everyone to read' or just for me?
If I say 'This new update reduced the contrast but I can read', am I saying 'This new update reduced the contrast but everyone can read it'?

Are you expecting everyone to constantly prefix their sentence with 'In my opinion' or 'In my experience' after the context of them expressing their experience has been established?

Also, why don't you just ask those people specifically why they are insistent on making sure everyone hates Tahoe like they do? Because discussions require that two way dialogue and curiosity, and if that's what you're here for then you should be asking directly instead of wondering out loud.

 

[maflynn]

Are you unable to comprehend that this fact has been shown in this thread multiple times?

My comprehension is fine it’s funny how people mistake opinion as fact

What does maflynn 'failing to see any issues' add to the discussion?

About the same as you keep adding the same question

 

[Sniper08]

My comprehension is fine it’s funny how people mistake opinion as fact

About the same as you keep adding the same question

If you can show me that contrast levels between both OSes are the same, feel free. But for now, light green text on a dark green background has less contrast than black text on a white background. That is a fact regardless of whether or not you keep calling it an opinion.

I keep asking the same question because you avoid answering. But I'll try again; What does maflynn 'failing to see any issues' add to the discussion?

 

[Kal Madda]

If you want to learn how to use the forums and avoid stuff delivered to your newsfeed, you can read this: https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201299756-Forum-Tips-and-Tricks

Every thread has buttons to jump to new, Watch the thread, Wikitools, and Ignore. You can try it here: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...sability-and-design-regression.2476149/ignore

I'm not sure why you're ascertaining that it is a public discussion and that it's your right to participate when that's exactly what I said. I said if that's your only justification then it's not in the spirit of discussion, rather stifling it or pushing your perspective over-top of others. And it seems you're proving my point here.

It comes across as if you’re trying to silence dissenting opinions here…. I don’t think you’re trying to do that, but that’s how it is coming across. I don’t need to “justify” engaging in a public discussion. Just as nobody is demanding you justify your engagement in said discussion….

I’m sharing my opinions here, sharing some facts, and making counterpoints to other points and claims that have been made here. I have also tried to be helpful where I can, and help others by offering suggestions to fix the issues they say they’re encountering, or try to help with troubleshooting. In other words, I’m engaging in discussion…

I’m not trying to force anything on anyone. I welcome discussion. I’ve had some really good and interesting discussions here. I don’t expect everyone will agree with me. And I’m not trying to force anyone to either. I just feel it’s useful to push back on some claims that I don’t view to be accurate. 👍🏻

This inability to infer opinion from fact is weird and concerning.
If I say 'My Mac's been slowing down' am I saying All Macs have been slowing down?
If I say 'This new update is hard to read', am I saying 'The new update is hard for everyone to read' or just for me?
If I say 'This new update reduced the contrast but I can read', am I saying 'This new update reduced the contrast but everyone can read it'?

Are you expecting everyone to constantly prefix their sentence with 'In my opinion' or 'In my experience' after the context of them expressing their experience has been established?

People have literally claimed these things as facts in this thread. Someone in this thread even tried to claim that Apple was intentionally trying to sabotage M1 Macs with Tahoe for “forced obsolescence” as if it’s a fact… They aren’t claiming these things as opinions, and when we’ve said “that’s just your opinion”, they push back on it claiming it’s more. So yeah, people are rightly pushing back and pointing out that opinions are just that: opinions… And yes, I do think people should generally clarify when they’re speaking of their own experience or opinions vs universal truth claims. I don’t always do this perfectly either, but I generally try to remember to do so, as it can be hard to ascertain meaning with written communication sometimes. 🙂👍🏻

Also, why don't you just ask those people specifically why they are insistent on making sure everyone hates Tahoe like they do? Because discussions require that two way dialogue and curiosity, and if that's what you're here for then you should be asking directly instead of wondering out loud.

I actually have mentioned that before… 🤷🏼‍♂️. And there are some with legitimate concerns or bugs they’ve encountered, but there also seem to be people in threads like this who are just grabbing onto any minor thing to claim it’s a major problem that’s impacting everyone, and claim it as evidence for big claims like Apple’s “losing their way”, “failing”, “don’t care about Mac users”, etc.

 

[Kal Madda]

If you can show me that contrast levels between both OSes are the same, feel free. But for now, light green text on a dark green background has less contrast than black text on a white background. That is a fact regardless of whether or not you keep calling it an opinion.

It’s still clearly visible and legible. Book covers and posters aren’t all black with white text or white with black text to achieve “max contrast”. Light green on dark green is generally acceptable contrast for design. And you’re literally talking about one button in a one-time popup. It has zero impact on regular functionality of the system…

 

[fisherking]

When I use the phrase 'push a viewpoint' I'm talking to people who write past a post and specifically misrepresent it to push forward their message.

For example, the many times I've asked you why you keep saying people are 'scared' or 'panicked' of opposing viewpoints and you respond with a reaction and say nothing.

For another example, the many times others have asked you to elaborate and you refuse to say anything beyond referring back to your original post.

If you want a discussion, you share viewpoints. That means you; acknowledge other POVs, explore other POVs, try to learn from other POVs. You share your own and expand on it to help others learn

If you want to push a viewpoint, you; disregard other POVs, claim others' experience as invalid, and most importantly; avoid any self-reflection or exploration. If someone asks you a question, you avoid it or answer in a glib and useless manner.

apologies, really. some of us on this forum are not so good at hearing others, just really good at pushing our own POV. and i don't think that anyone's POV is invalid, i only tire of people who insist that their POV is the 'correct' one (there's a lot of that).

i think i'm doing much better than you suggest here, and, to be fair, am sure you think the same for yourself; but we both are pretty combative on the forum.

anyway, will endeavor to be more patient with those who can't ever be wrong (including myself).

 

[triptolemus]

This thread is an absolute clown show at this point.

 

[fisherking]

This thread is an absolute clown show at this point.

too many threads on the forum wind up like this 🤷

 

[Kal Madda]

apologies, really. some of us on this forum are not so good at hearing others, just really good at pushing our own POV. and i don't think that anyone's POV is invalid, i only tire of people who insist that their POV is the 'correct' one (there's a lot of that).

i think i'm doing much better than you suggest here, and, to be fair, am sure you think the same for yourself; but we both are pretty combative on the forum.

anyway, will endeavor to be more patient with those who can't ever be wrong (including myself).

Yeah, this is something I need to work on myself as well. Sometimes I misunderstand what people are saying, or project based on other similar comments from others in the thread. And I’ve been trying to not come off as combative. Sometimes I overuse reactions. I wish we had a proper disagree reaction without limits everywhere in the forum. That would be nice. 👍🏻

 

[maflynn]

you of course will decide for yourself on whatever basis you determine is appropriate. enjoy

Yep, bottom line is that if you like it, use it, if you don't move to something that better suits your style and workflow

 

[star-affinity]

Ok, so you’re just talking about the status bar elements and not the rest of the contact card? That’s fair. Though I will point out, iOS has never really flawlessly handled this. This was a thing years ago. So it’s not like it’s a problem with Liquid Glass or version 26. It’s been the case for a while. 🤷🏼‍♂️. So while it is something that could be improved, it is not really a fair critique of version 26 or Liquid Glass, as this behavior predated this update. 👍🏻

Not just the status bar elements. It’s also about white text and icons over bright background and dark text and icons over dark backgrounds.

It’s still clearly visible and legible. Book covers and posters aren’t all black with white text or white with black text to achieve “max contrast”. Light green on dark green is generally acceptable contrast for design. And you’re literally talking about one button in a one-time popup. It has zero impact on regular functionality of the system…

I understand you think it’s clear and visible and legible, but a larger amount than ever in the history of Apple operating systems think there are legibility problems in some scenarios (again, not everywhere and all the time). Way more than just waving it of with ”it’s just an opinion”.

This thread is an absolute clown show at this point.

Are we all clowns or just some of us? 🤡

 

[Wolf1701]

Are you expecting everyone to constantly prefix their sentence with 'In my opinion' or 'In my experience' after the context of them expressing their experience has been established?

The “get out of jail free” card never fails.

I have met Apple evangelists (and in a certain sense I have been one myself with my circle of acquaintances), but here it reaches a new level; it seems like fanaticism. It is enough to always contradict without providing concrete facts.

 

[fisherking]

The “get out of jail free” card never fails.

I have met Apple evangelists (and in a certain sense I have been one myself with my circle of acquaintances), but here it reaches a new level; it seems like fanaticism. It is enough to always contradict without providing concrete facts.

am glad i'm not a fanatic. i'm fine with LG, rounded windows. i was a daily launchpad user... yet i don't miss it. there are other things i don't like in mac OS, but none are deal-breakers. what i do like: facts over assumptions, and people who speak for themselves (and don't claim to speak for everyone).