macOS Tahoe + WindowServer / memory pressure over long uptimes — anyone else seeing this?

[SDAVE]

Real question: How would people know if an app is coded in Electron? Listing one app that's an example of that really isn't educational or helpful, either, btw.

Google is your friend. Here are some Electron based apps:
Discord
Microsoft Teams A hub for teamwork that integrates chat, meetings, and file sharing.
Signal
Slack
WhatsApp
Visual Studio Code (VS Code)
Notion
Figma
Dropbox
Twitch

 

[SDAVE]

Everyone defending Tahoe (and especially you with your light workload) are missing the point.

If an OS has this many reported instances of bugs, slowdowns, and performance issues, it literally doesn't matter that it works for some people. It's clearly not for many others—enough that it's a very noticeable problem and means upgrading is basically a 50-50 gamble as to whether Tahoe will screw up your system or not.

I'm not playing those odds. Sequoia is excellent.

There's a large majority here that hates Tahoe's performance, imagine the folks that don't post here and what they think about it.

 

[boppin]

If an OS has this many reported instances of bugs, slowdowns, and performance issues, it literally doesn't matter that it works for some people. It's clearly not for many others—enough that it's a very noticeable problem and means upgrading is basically a 50-50 gamble as to whether Tahoe will screw up your system or not.

So, I can happily repeat myself. I haven't found any bugs in Tahoe so far. Everything is running perfectly. Honestly, even better than Catalina, which I used before. There are only two possibilities then: either it's a specific bug, or, as with newer versions, a complete reinstall helps.

 

[boppin]

Slack, etc.

Perhaps you should update / upgrade your used apps.

For example.

I remember that the Intel version of GIMP did used up to 2 GB of RAM on an Intel-based Mac several versions before just started! No file was open. Today activity monitor tells me just 151 MB used, but physically 428 MB used.

So I guess that applications you use aren't developed well for the Apple Silicon platform at all.

As I was discussing with an old friend from kindergarten, he was complaining about how incredibly slow the Microsoft Office programs were on his Mac. I told him it was because they weren't really optimized for macOS. The crux of the matter was that Word and Excel took what felt like forever to open a relatively long text file, while TextEdit was instantly ready. And that was back in 2015!

 

[SDAVE]

Perhaps you should update / upgrade your used apps.

For example.

I remember that the Intel version of GIMP did used up to 2 GB of RAM on an Intel-based Mac several versions before just started! No file was open. Today activity monitor tells me just 151 MB used, but physically 428 MB used.

So I guess that applications you use aren't developed well for the Apple Silicon platform at all.

As I was discussing with an old friend from kindergarten, he was complaining about how incredibly slow the Microsoft Office programs were on his Mac. I told him it was because they weren't really optimized for macOS. The crux of the matter was that Word and Excel took what felt like forever to open a relatively long text file, while TextEdit was instantly ready. And that was back in 2015!

Bro just cool it. I've been doing this for over 30 years, I am not asking for help here. I am stating facts.

Tahoe fails the test, especially for production work and ESPECIALLY on Intel. End of story.

 

[boppin]

ESPECIALLY on Intel. End of story.

I am not on Intel.

Intel platform is dead already for Apple. I hope it!

 

[SDAVE]

I am not on Intel.

Intel platform is dead already for Apple. I hope it!

Really cool of you, and also very cool that Apple still supports it in Tahoe officially for it to run like crap.

Also very cool of you to wish horrible things on people who spent 25k on these machines.

 

[boppin]

Really cool of you, and also very cool that Apple still supports it in Tahoe officially for it to run like crap.
Also very cool of you to wish horrible things on people who spent 25k on these machines.

Yes, I kind of figured something like this would happen. No. I don't wish anyone any harm. The fact is, Apple is going down the same path as they did back then, from PowerPC to Intel. And I already criticized Apple's update and support policies in German-language forums back then. I really hope the criticisms of Tahoe will be addressed with version .3 and later. But as I said, this was already the case back then with Intel-based Macs that were updated from 10.6 or whatever to the next higher version.

 

[SDAVE]

Yes, I kind of figured something like this would happen. No. I don't wish anyone any harm. The fact is, Apple is going down the same path as they did back then, from PowerPC to Intel. And I already criticized Apple's update and support policies in German-language forums back then. I really hope the criticisms of Tahoe will be addressed with version .3 and later. But as I said, this was already the case back then with Intel-based Macs that were updated from 10.6 or whatever to the next higher version.

Leopard wasn't this buggy on my G5 back then.

 

[boppin]

Leopard wasn't this buggy on my G5 back then.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard 🐆 the first usable version of OSX.

Yeah. I remember. I still own an original copy of it. The retail version.

Yes, that may all be true. In any case, it was often the case, or at least sometimes, that newer versions of macOS caused problems on newer machines, such as clearly audible fans, etc. This was true whether upgrading from Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion, Mountain Lion, or whatever their names were, to a higher version.

 

[boppin]

Well, I can understand him.

 

[boppin]

Louis Rossmann

Well, I am using a smartphone also, but it is not from Apple. Their software is just crippled I think.

 

[SDAVE]

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard 🐆 the first usable version of OSX.

Yeah. I remember. I still own an original copy of it. The retail version.

Yes, that may all be true. In any case, it was often the case, or at least sometimes, that newer versions of macOS caused problems on newer machines, such as clearly audible fans, etc. This was true whether upgrading from Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion, Mountain Lion, or whatever their names were, to a higher version.

At the end of the day there's nothing that a Mac Pro 2019 can't handle, especially GPU power, and especially on a higher tier Mac Pro. Not talking about 8 core CPU and a 580X. The 6xxx series is still a powerful GPU. Under Windows it runs like butter (Win10 or Win11, latest). So why not macOS? If Apple's excuse is Liguid Glass for bad performance on Intel MP, then that's completely lopsided because there is nothing that reaches 6900XT raw performance (Not machine learning cores) on the Apple's side, yet. And that's a 5 year old GPU. Look here.

It is simple malfeasance from Apple to support a dying architecture officially and crippling it's performance. I have no doubt Tahoe will get better, but it will take another 8-12 months of updates and by then they want people to move to M series. And I highly doubt it will run as well as Sequoia for Intel folks.

 

[izzy0242mr]

There's a large majority here that hates Tahoe's performance, imagine the folks that don't post here and what they think about it.

I follow a lot of different forums, not just this exceptionally nerdy one. Tahoe unquestionably has a much higher rate of overall complaints than other macOS versions in the last 3 years.

 

[izzy0242mr]

Google is your friend. Here are some Electron based apps:
Discord
Microsoft Teams A hub for teamwork that integrates chat, meetings, and file sharing.
Signal
Slack
WhatsApp
Visual Studio Code (VS Code)
Notion
Figma
Dropbox
Twitch

Doesn't answer the question, as predicted. Your original comment was "Do you run many electron apps or no? doesnt look like it." How can you tell just by "looking" whether an app is Electron-coded or not? That was what I was trying to ascertain.

Yes, obviously you can Google every single app you have to see if someone has talked about it online. Don't talk to me like I'm stupid; that's not the question. My point is asking someone "do you use a lot of Electron apps" is an impractical question for the average person who doesn't have any reason to be Googling how each of their apps was coded.

 

[SDAVE]

Doesn't answer the question, as predicted. Your original comment was "Do you run many electron apps or no? doesnt look like it." How can you tell just by "looking" whether an app is Electron-coded or not? That was what I was trying to ascertain.

Yes, obviously you can Google every single app you have to see if someone has talked about it online. Don't talk to me like I'm stupid; that's not the question. My point is asking someone "do you use a lot of Electron apps" is an impractical question for the average person who doesn't have any reason to be Googling how each of their apps was coded.

What is your point? This isn't just about electron apps broda

 

[boppin]

At the end of the day there's nothing that a Mac Pro 2019 can't handle

I can't tell you that either. The best thing would be for you to simply pester Apple and their support team, submitting support requests and sending feedback one after another. That would probably be more helpful than posting here in the forum.

And yes, I understand you and your problem very well, but unfortunately, none of that will help.

And as I already said or wrote: It's quite possible that Apple will get these problems under control with version 26.2.3 or later, because, as I also said or wrote, it was already the case back then that "older" Intel-based Macs, when updated to the next higher version, were also confronted with strange problems and bugs. Be it a noticeably loud fan or whatever.

 

[boppin]

Leopard wasn't this buggy on my G5 back then.

Then you were very lucky. I know several others who weren't so fortunate.

 

[SDAVE]

I can't tell you that either. The best thing would be for you to simply pester Apple and their support team, submitting support requests and sending feedback one after another. That would probably be more helpful than posting here in the forum.

And yes, I understand you and your problem very well, but unfortunately, none of that will help.

And as I already said or wrote: It's quite possible that Apple will get these problems under control with version 26.2.3 or later, because, as I also said or wrote, it was already the case back then that "older" Intel-based Macs, when updated to the next higher version, were also confronted with strange problems and bugs. Be it a noticeably loud fan or whatever.

Why are you continuing this convo? Don't apologize for Apple.

I'm doing what I can with submitting bugs for Mac Pro but for now I am not touching Tahoe on Intel.

 

[boppin]

Don't apologize for Apple.

I never did that. Frankly, that's an assumption on your part or some kind of misunderstanding. How did you even come to the conclusion that I would defend Apple in any way? I'd really like to know.

 

[SDAVE]

I never did that. Frankly, that's an assumption on your part or some kind of misunderstanding. How did you even come to the conclusion that I would defend Apple in any way? I'd really like to know.

What is your point across the board here? What are you trying to accomplish? If you're trying to "help" you can't. Tahoe is not usable for Intel, it's as simple as that. It's up to Apple to fix it, we can't do anything. Best we can do is submit feedback with their tool.

 

[!!!]

Real question: How would people know if an app is coded in Electron? Listing one app that's an example of that really isn't educational or helpful, either, btw.

If the app contains the framework "Electron Framework", located in AppName.app/Contents/Frameworks, or if the app spawns additional helper processes like AppName Helper, AppName Helper (GPU), or AppName Helper (Renderer). The apps are also often 250MB in size or more, with the electron framework taking up most of that space.

 

[izzy0242mr]

If the app contains the framework "Electron Framework", located in AppName.app/Contents/Frameworks, or if the app spawns additional helper processes like AppName Helper, AppName Helper (GPU), or AppName Helper (Renderer). The apps are also often 250MB in size or more, with the electron framework taking up most of that space.

Thank you for a useful reply! This is very educational and helpful.

 

[boppin]

On Tahoe 26.3 so far:

14.5 MB so far.

As I said before: Either it's a bug or too many windows / tabs.

 

[SDAVE]

On Tahoe 26.3 so far:

14.5 MB so far.

As I said before: Either it's a bug or too many windows / tabs.

Same workflow in Sequoia is perfect and previous macOS releases, just not Tahoe. Clearly a Tahoe issue on Intel.

We're beating a dead horse here lol