Interestingly, Ventura has been really solid for me minus this latest bug. iOS on the other hand 😑
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macOS Ventura 13.5 Breaks Location Services Permissions for Apps
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Exactly. My Mac when I switch between users frequently ends up not being able to open files with a double click. macOS is an absolute joke. I also initialised it and after a week I had the same issue. I have basically no software on it, just MS Office. M2 air, I am not using a 128k Macintosh, I would expect this crap to work decently. My next laptop won't be a Mac. They have a bunch of idiots running the software department.
Ahh yeah “security fixes/patches”, as if those people would prefer works Being interrupted because of a broken system than having an “insecure” system.
Just wait until Apple releases security updates that bricks the system. “But, but my system now is up to date!”
I can't understand why a company the size of Apple doesn't allocate more resources to stay on top of things like this. And before anyone says 'that's not how software development works', please... there's no reason why an automated system wouldn't have picked this up.
Sheer sloppiness. And ultimately, greed.
Sheer sloppiness. And ultimately, greed.
Apple throws beta software to the crowd because they can’t be bothered to hire proper QA and an army of real-world testers who knows what they are doing.
I mean, if they want, they can start charging for macOS again and pay people using beta software to find bugs.
All in the name of saving costs and maximising shareholder value At the cost of everything else. Otherwise, why let macOS be free of charge?
Perhaps that's what's needed: charge a modest fee for the major updates (which, let's be honest, aren't necessarily needed every year) and keep the minor updates free. Although I admit paying Apple even more money does make me recoil somewhat. You'd hope the cost of keeping macOS free was baked into the premium price they charge for their hardware.
Update fatigue is very real! Too many modern software updates happen too frequently and not well tested
Aaaaaaaand this is why I don't install macOS Betas anymore. The production releases are buggy enough as it is. I don't need more headaches.
Apple is really banking on their Name versus Quality these days. Their QA with software is decreasing by the year.
Pretty funny people expecting 100.0% perfection 100.0% of the time.
On a forum like this one it’s more about bashing Apple than expecting perfection. Operating systems like macOS or Windows, or Linux will always be full of bugs, most go unnoticed by users, not many will be showstoppers. The code is so complex that bugs simply have to exist.
Are you f---ng kidding me? I noticed this bug within the first 20 minutes of using 13.5, because the weather data wasn't loading in Outlook. Very easy to find. In fact, to "discover" this elusive, rare bug all one of the devs or testers (if they even exist?) would have needed to do was literally just OPEN the Settings > Privacy > Location section. That's it. The fact they made obvious under the hood changes to this mechanism and didn't bother to even open the related UI that controls it shows how sloppy and disjointed macOS development has become under Cook and Federighi.
As a software developer, I expect bugs. As a software developer, I don't expect bugs as egregious as this one. It's not that there are bugs, it's what these particular kinds of bugs reveal about Apple's software development incompetence.
There was an seemingly inconsequential bug in Ventura a while ago. There was a thread on these forums, but it didn't get that much attention. If you turned on stealth mode in System Settings, it showed as being turned on. But if you came back to it later, it showed that it really hadn't been turned on.
That bug was trivial to catch during testing - especially since System Settings was a brand new application which was getting plenty of developer attention. It had a monumental impact to users on insecure networks who tried to take precautions. It was almost impossible for a user to notice. That level of incompetence erodes trust.
If you just take a birds-eye view and see a reasonably nice OS with some bugs (all software has bugs), then you'll draw a rosy conclusion. If you think about particular bugs and what they imply - not so rosy.
There was an seemingly inconsequential bug in Ventura a while ago. There was a thread on these forums, but it didn't get that much attention. If you turned on stealth mode in System Settings, it showed as being turned on. But if you came back to it later, it showed that it really hadn't been turned on.
That bug was trivial to catch during testing - especially since System Settings was a brand new application which was getting plenty of developer attention. It had a monumental impact to users on insecure networks who tried to take precautions. It was almost impossible for a user to notice. That level of incompetence erodes trust.
If you just take a birds-eye view and see a reasonably nice OS with some bugs (all software has bugs), then you'll draw a rosy conclusion. If you think about particular bugs and what they imply - not so rosy.
13.5 is on the back shelf now. Hey Apple, fix this pronto. What I mean is I am on 13.5 and didn't notice it at all. Ugh.
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And the change (for better or for worse) ought to have had an alert that things were updated/changed. It's serious. So now set my VPN to Chile?
I know it's impossible to "ensure" 100% "this won't happen again" however but whether it's a talent shortfall or cost-cutting primacy, it shows that the MacOS team has lost a lot of institutional memory.
I agree mostly BUT this location mess is something I will update when the fix is in.
Bugs happen, but I'm surprised this one has been known for as long as it has without a fix.
And when that happens, guess what? I will upgrade to Monterrey on this spare Mac I have.Currently, but Big Sur come this late Sept/Oct will fall off the well supported three most recent MacOS's. That is why Safari 17 is now being made available only to Monterey and Ventura, not Big Sur which will only be getting occasional patches in the near future.