macOS Ventura 13.5 Breaks Location Services Permissions for Apps

[RobbieTT]

I am stunned that this problem still exists. I cannot recall when another example where a dot update accidentally removed an entire strand of system management. That it could be a privacy issue too just slams into Apple's claims over privacy & trust.

Mistakes happen, not fixing them is clearly bonkers.

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[davidramsay]

I totally agree with you. Also, Apple needs to actually pay developers and beta testers to work on finding and rooting out issues like this. They also need to create a robust "bug bounty" program that will pay members of the community to find these things, as well as issues that can cause security problems.

Part of the issue is the reluctance of Apple to divulge the fixes/changes undertaken so those who test as beta or otherwise external to Apple have NO idea what changes have been made and thus cannot target their testing.

Of course the issue may be more subtle in as much that a change made which was localised was not expected to have any other effect.

Bottom line (as an experienced tester of several decades) if you have a good set of supported autotests then it should have been noted. Mind tho that as this area was totally reworked then the autotests may not have been updated! Indeed I would suggest that autotests of the NEW System Preferences should NOT be coded until the functionality has been proven to work correctly using MANUAL methods.

Elsewhere someone pointed out that System Preferences was undergoing significant change and therefore I would have expected internal testers to have identified the issue.

Also someone suggested that marketing deadlines were involved, QA must have a release/no release mandate regardless of other pressures!

 

[MilaM]

How did this slip through testing before the release? The bar is being set lower and lower for Apple software.

 

[PBMB]

There is no fix for this bug and workarounds that users have tried have not helped. Apple will need to issue an update to macOS to restore the privacy settings to their original state.

Could this be related with the sleep mode bug in Intel iMacs?

 

[switz]

Just fired up my M1 MBAir running Sonoma Beta 5312d and "Location" is operational.

 

[chrfr]

Could this be related with the sleep mode bug in Intel iMacs?

Unlikely. This affects Apple Silicon and Intel Macs, and location services continue to work as normal, but the GUI to control them is broken.

 

[Realityck]

How did this slip through testing before the release? The bar is being set lower and lower for Apple software.

Perhaps because of how it is dependent mostly from localized WiFi network information? How many tend to use their iPhones as a hotspot in comparison? Obviously in some sense it wasn’t’ checked before compiling with enough networking setups.

 

[chrfr]

Perhaps because of how it is dependent mostly from localized WiFi network information? How many tend to use their iPhones as a hotspot in comparison? Obviously in some sense it wasn’t’ checked before compiling with enough networking setups.

I'm not sure what you mean. These settings are unavailable in 13.5 regardless of network configuration.

 

[Realityck]

I'm not sure what you mean. These settings are unavailable in 13.5 regardless of network configuration.

My misunderstanding. The Location Services before w/13.4/ and after w/13.5 wasn't clear in the OP. Hope they issue a patch or first beta of 13.6 this coming week then.

 

[nathansz]

I am stunned that this problem still exists. I cannot recall when another example where a dot update accidentally removed an entire strand of system management. That it could be a privacy issue too just slams into Apple's claims over privacy & trust.

Mistakes happen, not fixing them is clearly bonkers.

☕️

it's fixed in current Sonoma

 

[svenmany]

it's fixed in current Sonoma

Was it ever broken in Sonoma?

Apple had better not require an upgrade to Sonoma to get this thing fixed.

 

[nathansz]

Was it ever broken in Sonoma?

Apple had better not require an upgrade to Sonoma to get this thing fixed.

it was broken in Sonoma at the same time it was broken in ventura

incidentally Sonoma is much more stable, less buggy and dare I say "snappier" than ventura all around, not sure why you would be so reluctant to upgrade

 

[svenmany]

it was broken in Sonoma at the same time it was broken in ventura

incidentally Sonoma is much more stable, less buggy and dare I say "snappier" than ventura all around, not sure why you would be so reluctant to upgrade

I never said I'd be reluctant to upgrade, but some people might be - for various reasons. When I said that Apple had better fix this issue in Ventura, I wasn't only thinking about myself.

I still remember calling in to Apple Care for support - I was still under warranty coverage. They wouldn't help me with a problem until I upgraded to the next OS. At the time I needed to run some software that wouldn't be supported in the next OS version. So, I was out of luck.

I hope Apple doesn't try to do the same thing for this issue. I hadn't realized it was also broken in Sonoma. The fact they fixed it there and not in Ventura leaves me a little concerned.

 

[nathansz]

I never said I'd be reluctant to upgrade, but some people might be - for various reasons. When I said that Apple had better fix this issue in Ventura, I wasn't only thinking about myself.

I still remember calling in to Apple Care for support - I was still under warranty coverage. They wouldn't help me with a problem until I upgraded to the next OS. At the time I needed to run some software that wouldn't be supported in the next OS version. So, I was out of luck.

I hope Apple doesn't try to do the same thing for this issue. I hadn't realized it was also broken in Sonoma. The fact they fixed it there and not in Ventura leaves me a little concerned.

fair enough, I should not have presumed

 

[nathansz]

Are you listening to yourself?
You do know that Big Sur and Monterrey are still getting security updates, right?

only the most recent macOS version gets all security updates and in a timely manner

previous two version get some security updates and not right away

About software updates for Apple devices

Before you begin to manage software updates and upgrades, understand how Apple handles the process.

support.apple.com

PSA: Apple isn’t actually patching all the security holes in older versions of macOS

Big Sur got a fix 234 days before Catalina did, although both are supported.

arstechnica.com

Apple clarifies security update policy: Only the latest OSes are fully patched

New document confirms what security researchers have observed for a few years.

arstechnica.com

 

[PBMB]

Unlikely. This affects Apple Silicon and Intel Macs, and location services continue to work as normal, but the GUI to control them is broken.

This lets me keep hope. One of the system processes preventing the iMac to enter sleep mode is the WindowServer itself, even after a fresh reboot.

 

[AlexJaye]

Then why are you still on the platform? Seriously, why?

I've been using Apple products since ~ 2009 and originally stuck around for the quality. After more than a decade and a half of personal use, it is rather difficult to switch entirely to other platforms. Also, a decline in quality does not automatically mean that the Apple Brand has dropped below other brands in terms of overall quality. It just implies a lower standard for Apple, at the expense of the customer but in rabid search of ever-expanding profit.

Thanks, Tim!

 

[Vanaedium]

Hi
To be more specifics, the Location doesn't shows apps that already have authorizations, but grants access to certain apps.
I try to run Google Maps on Chrome and no luck there. Then I switch to Firefox and the auth has been granted with the consent windows. I tried also on Safari and works.
So I think there is a problem with Chrome talking to Services on MacOs, surprise surprise.
Looks like a convenient bug for Apple or a Chrome issues in this case.
I'm keeping Firefox as default browser for now, can't stand Safari at all.
Best

 

[aevan]

One example of a good reason not to go with the latest and greatest in terms of software... You are either secured but with software bugs or out of date but stable...

I'm waiting for the final update to Big Sur before I upgrade from Catalina... Same with iPhone 14 Pro Max, waiting for the final update to iOS 16 before upgrading from iOS 16.2 although these days only a handful of people are after older software versions since we barely hear news about jailbreaking...

At this point you’re missing out on a lot of features and potentially ending up with more bugs than if you upgraded.

There are macOS bugs present in multiple versions that were only fixed with Sonoma, for example.

 

[aevan]

Apple is really banking on their Name versus Quality these days. Their QA with software is decreasing by the year.

Compared to literally everyone else, they are quite good. And they are much better than a few years ago.

 

[DailySlow]

I've been using Apple products since ~ 2009 and originally stuck around for the quality. After more than a decade and a half of personal use, it is rather difficult to switch entirely to other platforms. Also, a decline in quality does not automatically mean that the Apple Brand has dropped below other brands in terms of overall quality. It just implies a lower standard for Apple, at the expense of the customer but in rabid search of ever-expanding profit.

Thanks, Tim!

"Brands" ?

 

[chrfr]

Hi
To be more specifics, the Location doesn't shows apps that already have authorizations, but grants access to certain apps.
I try to run Google Maps on Chrome and no luck there. Then I switch to Firefox and the auth has been granted with the consent windows. I tried also on Safari and works.
So I think there is a problem with Chrome talking to Services on MacOs, surprise surprise.
Looks like a convenient bug for Apple or a Chrome issues in this case.
I'm keeping Firefox as default browser for now, can't stand Safari at all.
Best

The problem isn't only with Chrome. Some apps will use the default dialog box that prompts to allow location services but Chrome isn't one of those. Even for the apps that you can allow location access, it's impossible to revoke access in 13.5.

 

[james yates]

The macOS Ventura 13.5 update that Apple released on July 24 has introduced a bug that affects location services.

Since July, there have been complaints from macOS Ventura users who updated to the new software and then were unable to access and control location permissions for first and third-party apps.

Under System Settings > Privacy and Security > Location Services, macOS Ventura 13.5 has no apps listed. Users are not able to toggle location services for apps on or off, nor can they see which apps have access to their location information at the current time.

If a newly installed app attempts to request location services, there is no option to enable it for that app, which limits the functionality of some apps that Mac users are attempting to access. The location bug has been present since macOS Ventura 13.5 was released, but it has gone under the radar, perhaps because a limited number of Mac apps request location access.

There is no fix for this bug and workarounds that users have tried have not helped. Apple will need to issue an update to macOS to restore the privacy settings to their original state.

There are no location services issues with the prior macOS Ventura 13.4 update nor with macOS Sonoma.

Article Link: macOS Ventura 13.5 Breaks Location Services Permissions for Apps

You are holding your Mac wrong.

 

[Pinkyyy 💜🍎]

This article is pretty late as the issue has already been reported maybe two weeks earlier or something.

Anyways, I’m hoping to see a fix soon. Not sure if they will release a 13.5.1 update or just go straight to Sonoma, but since Apple is aware of the issue and this doesn’t appear to be an issue in the Sonoma betas, I do have a feeling that Apple will eventually fix it.

 

[RobbieTT]

This article is pretty late as the issue has already been reported maybe two weeks earlier or something.

It's not late - how would the author know that Apple would not fix this with a rapid fix?

'Dog bites man' is not a story; 'man bites dog' is. A bug or regression is nothing new in software - not fixing a privacy / core function very much is.

Your pink-tinted glasses are hindering your vision.

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