MacRumors Poll: iPhone 4 Signal Loss by Region

[brodie]

any conductive metal will produce the same results

First call I made on the iPhone 4 dropped out five times until I went to speaker and put it on a table. Now i have to make sure each call is in my right hand otherwise guaranteed it will drop the call in my left.

I tried bridging it with a copper penny supported by plastic (so as not to invalidate the cause) and the signal drops the same, so it's not down to human/skin resistence, it's down to the bridging. At least in this case. I repeated the experiment 10 times for efficacy all with the same result. There's a slight delay and the bars return.

If you aren't experiencing this I envy you.

 

[chill1n]

I fight for truth, not Apple.

This is the problem with blind advocacy, the practicers always paint themselves into corners they didn't intend to.

So you are saying that a since a 3GS owner who had no problems now does is because... (wait for it...)

The iPhone 4 has worse cell reception than a 3GS?

You don't really believe that, right? Wouldn't it really be better to say the 4 is a better phone with affixable bug?

You are apparently assuming incorrectly that you and the others reporting problems know all the variables involved and have lab conditions at your disposal. But everyone knows that you do not. Everyone knows you have a single cell phone in front of you. You can't make any intelligent statements based on what you observe from that single phone. That is the issue. Anyone that claims there is an issue and is using their suspect memory to say "no other phone I had does this," when that is patently false (they all do it), or with their single phone makes any conclusions whatsoever, those conclusions are baseless and meaningless.

What I am telling you is that if you make conclusions based on untestable, isolated observations, ignoring most of the important variables and salient details, you are committing fallacy, and your logic is about as unsound as it gets.

 

[chill1n]

Then Do A Real Test

I have a data card from ATT and a BB using ATT. No problems with either. No problems with the iPhone (in the same location), until I pick it up. Then it drops the connection. No data; no voice. It becomes an iPod with a monthly service charge.

The story isn't how awesome the iPhone is. The story is that Apple released a phone into the market and advertised it by showing people (including Jobs) using it in their hand, when it completely fails to work that way.

Get real here. A phone that you can not hold to use isn't merchantable and should be recalled if it can't be fixed through a software update. Apple needs to be accountable to its customers, and arrogance from the CEO is a complete non starter.

I implore you to prove us all wrong... it is quite simple, really:

1) leave your house, go find a tower
2) sit under the tower with nothing blocking line of sight
3) set iPhone down, confirm it has all bars lit
4) pick up iPhone, make a call
5) try to reproduce the behavior by touching the antenna lower left... get the call to drop

If you can't get a call to drop under a tower, if you can't reproduce the results under these controlled conditions when we know that you have 100% reception, then there is nothing wrong with your iPhone. The troubles you've experienced have to do with the reception in your area, and not the iPhone's design.

 

[DMann]

First call I made on the iPhone 4 dropped out five times until I went to speaker and put it on a table. Now i have to make sure each call is in my right hand otherwise guaranteed it will drop the call in my left.

I tried bridging it with a copper penny supported by plastic (so as not to invalidate the cause) and the signal drops the same, so it's not down to human/skin resistence, it's down to the bridging. At least in this case. I repeated the experiment 10 times for efficacy all with the same result. There's a slight delay and the bars return.

If you aren't experiencing this I envy you.

I tried bridging the antenna with a nickel, and then a penny - no signal drop.

Either the frequency (800 & 1900) or the non-conductive coating are at play here.

Puzzling, indeed.

 

[sneezingdog]

I implore you to prove us all wrong... it is quite simple, really:

1) leave your house, go find a tower
2) sit under the tower with nothing blocking line of sight
3) set iPhone down, confirm it has all bars lit
4) pick up iPhone, make a call
5) try to reproduce the behavior by touching the antenna lower left... get the call to drop

If you can't get a call to drop under a tower, if you can't reproduce the results under these controlled conditions when we know that you have 100% reception, then there is nothing wrong with your iPhone. The troubles you've experienced have to do with the reception in your area, and not the iPhone's design.

try this: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=10322957#post10322957

you are also missing the point. I have very good att reception on the iphone as long as it is not in my hand. I should be able to pick it up and use it in my hand, just as I do any other phone

 

[BobVB]

Anyone that claims there is an issue and is using their suspect memory to say "no other phone I had does this," when that is patently false (they all do it), or with their single phone makes any conclusions whatsoever, those conclusions are baseless and meaningless.

Seriously? You think people don't know if they've been getting dropped calls or not?

What a fanboy - there's no point in talking with you.

 

[jwdawso]

yMMV

Purely anecdotal. We have two 4's and 1 3GS. All 3 behave the same. When there is a great signal, all is good. When theree is a marginal signal (hello AT&T please improve Boston area) all 3 can drive you crazy - it doesn't matter how they are held they can show full signal and searching all within a few feet. I'm sure some have defective phones. I bet there are sw bugs. But the phone is awesome.

There's a reason why people curse their cell phone company and this is a symptom.

 

[chill1n]

not

try this: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=10322957#post10322957

you are also missing the point. I have very good att reception on the iphone as long as it is not in my hand. I should be able to pick it up and use it in my hand, just as I do any other phone

All this says is that you have spotty reception where you are. All cell phones receive better reception when not in your hand. You will need to go to a location where the cell reception is known for sure, say, under a tower. Then repeat. Then we might have data points we can use.

 

[chill1n]

Troll feeder

Seriously? You think people don't know if they've been getting dropped calls or not?

What a fanboy - there's no point in talking with you.

I'm not sure why I was responding to your trolls either. But with your ad hominem you have defeated me... it's just one too many fallacies... and I am crushed beneath your irrationality.

 

[BobVB]

I'm not sure why I was responding to your trolls either. But with your ad hominem you have defeated me... it's just one too many fallacies... and I am crushed beneath your irrationality.

Guess that makes me the troll's troll.

 

[sneezingdog]

All this says is that you have spotty reception where you are. All cell phones receive better reception when not in your hand. You will need to go to a location where the cell reception is known for sure, say, under a tower. Then repeat. Then we might have data points we can use.

its good enough for at least one other device that I hold in my hand (BB). No loss of data. iPhone should be the same. Its not. Many people are complaining of the same thing. The device is an iPodwith a monthly fee as far as I am concerned. not worth it. its going back.

 

[jwdawso]

Seriously? You think people don't know if they've been getting dropped calls or not?

What a fanboy - there's no point in talking with you.

Perfect example of an ad hominem argument.

It's reasonable to question the evidence because cell technology is very complicated. I have dropped calls too often but I blame AT&T. It's all very location dependent.

 

[sneezingdog]

in case you have not seen it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3Ogt2L44Q

 

[Nyse]

Where was the face time icon in the guys iPhone 4!?!?!?

 

[chill1n]

Watch them both

in case you have not seen it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3Ogt2L44Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfRRylqPtCA&feature=player_embedded

iPhone 3G does the same damn thing.

man... that hitler thing is getting old... but ok, good fun

 

[BobVB]

Perfect example of an ad hominem argument.

It's reasonable to question the evidence because cell technology is very complicated. I have dropped calls too often but I blame AT&T. It's all very location dependent.

But its not reasonable to argue 'ad nauseum' ignoring that people aren't complaining about simple body mass attenuation of signal, they are talking about consistently dropped calls in locations that haven't had them before every time they pick up the phone.

Talking with chilin is like pointing at a melanoma on your arm and him repeatedly telling you its its just eczema, everyone has that. No, they don't.

If it was just body mass attenuation it wouldn't matter if it was left or right since the antenna is across the bottom symmetrically. If it was just body mass attenuation it wouldn't matter if you were touching the phone or not since your body mass is still in the same location barring a few millimeters. If it were body mass attenuation you wouldn't suddenly be dropping calls in locations you never did before and it was just serendipitous that you were doing it on your iPhone 4.

Sorry for an argument ad nauseum the appropriate response is identifying the problem 'fanboy' and ending the discussion.

 

[nookster]

Not quite as funny as the 1st gen nano scratch thread from way back, but close, well done.

A fanboy is merely a troll that chooses to **** in his own bed.

 

[chill1n]

Truth hurts.

But its not reasonable to argue 'ad nauseum' ignoring that people aren't complaining about simple body mass attenuation of signal, they are talking about consistently dropped calls in locations that haven't had them before every time they pick up the phone.

Talking with chilin is like pointing at a melanoma on your arm and him repeatedly telling you its its just eczema, everyone has that. No, they don't.

If it was just body mass attenuation it wouldn't matter if it was left or right since the antenna is across the bottom symmetrically. If it was just body mass attenuation it wouldn't matter if you were touching the phone or not since your body mass is still in the same location barring a few millimeters. If it were body mass attenuation you wouldn't suddenly be dropping calls in locations you never did before and it was just serendipitous that you were doing it on your iPhone 4.

Sorry for an argument ad nauseum the appropriate response is identifying the problem 'fanboy' and ending the discussion.

Again... your conclusions do not follow from your premises.

I do not doubt the observations. But isolated observations, even if enmass, are still isolated, unconnected observations, and will never amount to the kind of evidence one needs to make a valid and sound conclusion on the matter. Sure, when someone says "I never had trouble with cell before in this area" it is certainly an undeniable and scientific statement that is verifiable with testing and peer review... so it is difficult to argue against. heh.

This issue had degraded to

1) there is a reception issue (because I can repeat this test of reducing reception and dropped calls)

or

2) there is not really a reception issue, or all cell phones have similar, demonstrable behavior.

I tend to believe 2, because it has always been my experience.

Also, other cell phone manufacturers admit to such:

see page 6 of this manual:

http://member.america.htc.com/downl...credibleC_VZW_English_Safety-and-Warranty.pdf

Contact with the antenna area may impair call quality and cause your device to operate at a higher power level than needed. Avoiding contact with the antenna area when the phone is IN USE optimizes the antenna performance and the battery life.

You've all been fooled by yourselves... and by Gizmodo. Yes, you are seeing what you are seeing. No, it doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[peterja]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfRRylqPtCA&feature=player_embedded

iPhone 3G does the same damn thing.

But not for the same reason, the 4 has a more serious problem because you can short circuit the antenna with one finger.

 

[brodie]

I tried bridging the antenna with a nickel, and then a penny - no signal drop.

Either the frequency (800 & 1900) or the non-conductive coating are at play here.

Puzzling, indeed.

It's not an immediate change, perhaps 5-10 seconds and I needed to keep good pressure on the penny (with a Bic).

Is the coating a theory or has it been authenticated as fact? It would be a good fix if they can swap it instore.

I'm in the UK so I'm not sure if that effects the frequency beign used, i did notice 3G wasn't on but i'm not sure if wifi signal takes it place?

 

[surferfromuk]

Approximately 10% of the world is left handed which means it's entirely feasible that Apple may not even employ anyone left handed in the test lab.

However, at worst if every left hander avoids the phone entirely ( since going by this forum they all seem to be unable to hold it in anything other than some strangely clumsy fist like grip) then it really isn't likely to impact sales that much.

 

[chill1n]

You are arguing about a trivial difference

But not for the same reason, the 4 has a more serious problem because you can short circuit the antenna with one finger.

In the face of the evidence that other phones exhibit the same behavior, you still dig in your heals.

There is no way to know whether your statement is true or false. It is worthless. To say "it's more severe" you'd need to be in a position of being able to verify this, and you haven't even attempted it.

It's the same issue. Lets admit that first. Forget whether iPhone 4 is more susceptible, lets focus on what is really going on.

Can we at least get to the point where everyone agrees that all cell phones are susceptible to this effect?

Then we can talk about ways to determine if iPhone 4 's instance of this widespread and expected behavior in cell phones is worse or not, or whether the worseness is isolated to some iPhone 4 's, or common to all of them.

 

[BobVB]

This issue had degraded to

1) there is a reception issue (because I can repeat this test of reducing reception and dropped calls)

or

2) there is not really a reception issue, or all cell phones have similar, demonstrable behavior.

I tend to believe 2, because it has always been my experience.

So YOUR 'experience' trumps others? Now who's being subjective?

But 2) you know isn't true - people are telling you over and over and over again that they are having totally new dropped call issues when using the iPhone 4 that they never had with a previous iPhone just short times before.

As for Gizmodo - who reads it? I didn't - I knew touching the phone dropped the call as soon as I used it. My totally non-techie friend who got one because I told him to called me and asked about his problem with dropped calls all day. This is about a problem that a piece of tape can obscure - it is has nothing to do with body mass attenuation.

You have absolutely no evidence to assume there is nothing new going on here and yet you do in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

Again, the iPhone 4 in my hand will lose all bars and drop calls if I hold it, but if I hold it the next time in even a Kleenex it won't. This is NOT normal cell phone behavior and your insistence that it is all is bizarre and makes you seem like a blind advocate for 'there's no problem here, just move along' and seems just as believable that you are honestly considering all the data.

 

[firewood]

Is the coating a theory or has it been authenticated as fact? It would be a good fix if they can swap it instore.

So I tested the frame on my iPhone 4 with an old-fashioned Radio Shack Ohm-Meter. Less than 1 Ohm resistance anywhere around the frame. No non-conductive coating as far as I can tell.

 

[chill1n]

You have absolutely no evidence to assume there is nothing new going on here and yet you do in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

YES!! That's it precisely. I say nothing is going on. The burden of proof is upon those that say there is an issue.... and so far
all of the presented evidence is anecdotal, isolated, incomplete, fractured and thus meaningless