macs and gender/sexual preference

[rainman::|:|]

Re: Being gay hurts society

Originally posted by agreenster
I get really tired of this one. Whenever straight people say "I dont mind that people are gay. As long as they dont hurt anyone else, who cares?" -this really bothers me.

Fortunately I don't have to make a drawn out response to your post, because my new friends here aren't buying it, in fact they seem rather opposed to your ideas. I do want to touch on a couple of things tho:
1. How can being gay be bad for the genetic composition of humanity? you pointed out, so eloquently, that we cannot reproduce. The only natural way for a gay man to reproduce is for him to marry a woman who he will not love. That's got to be good for women everywhere, right?
2. The fall of Rome, eh? What about every other nation that embraced homosexuality? Let's look at Florence, Italy, circa late 1400's. Birth of the rennaisance, rebirth of the arts. Almost every stylish man (I'm talking straight here) took on young boy protogés, and raped them constantly. That wasn't even homosexuality, just desperate sodomy, and Italy certainly didn't fall. Greece is a good example as well, as the gays there lived a (somewhat) open life for the last 1000 years. Ever heard of the Isle of Lesbos? And Greece is still a healthy functioning part of the world. The fall of Rome was because of an extreme inbalance in the social structure, to dramatically oversimplify.

3. Gay people are horrible for morality... Okay, lets say I agree. The following people have had a detrimental impact on society:
Leonardo DaVinci. Elanor Roosevelt, Rosie O'Donell, Michalangelo. Sir Ian McKellan, Emily Di¢kenson, Florence Nightingale, Sir Frances Bacon. Susan B. Anthony, Herman Melville, Nathaniel Hawthorne. Willa Cather, Walt Whitman, Greta Garbo. Liberace, Aaron Copeland, Andy Warhol, Amelia Earhart, Elton John, k. d. lang, Lily Tomlin.
Need I continue?

I'm sure God compares these people to theives, cutthroats, and whatever else you likened us to.
Yes, I've known gay people that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I have been in love with, among others, a self-destructor and a sociopath. You know what's sad about the self-destructor, tho? All his suicide attempts, his unhealthy lifestyle (I'm not *just* talking casual sex here)... It's because he had a mother just like you.

I'm not trying to change your mind here. Once a zealot is affirmed, they will never falter. But keep this in mind the next time someone you love comes out, before you destroy all he has worked so hard to accept himself. I hope you never have children to spread this rhetoric to.

pnw

 

[rainman::|:|]

Re: and in england...

Originally posted by afonso
iengland is one of the countries with the most conservative "gay rights" laws in Europe.

I guess I will only get married in the States, when I move to there in a few years...

Afonso,

Great to hear your opinion on this thread!

As for marriage... We would certainly love to have you here (that accent is so sexy ) but unfortunately, we can only marry in one small state. It's a hard battle, to get recognized in other states, and it's uphill, as many states have passed "sanctity of marriage" bills specifically denying gays the right to marry. Fun, eh? But we have many wonderful, large groups campaigning for the rights we deserve and demand. It's only a matter of time. Public opinion is shifting fast, in some places it's quite a majority, although opposition groups are quick to make up false numbers. The US is quite a great nation, and I'm confident it will soon recognize the importance of marriage to the gay population (we number 20-40 million in the US alone)...

Which of course brings me to the obligatory political involvement announcement: If anyone who reads this agrees, and wants to see something done, write your congressmen. It may seem futile, but you'd be surprised how these letters affect how they vote on important legislation. In democracy, we have the right to be heard, and the only way to be heard is to speak up!


pnw

 

[rainman::|:|]

ugh double post sorry...
pnw

 

[evildead]

I got teased

I got teased alot when I got my Rev-A iMac. Girls would come buy and say "Its so cute, I want one" Any my buddies would spout off all kinds of crap. No one makes fun of My Quicksilver. I think that Apple has made some good moves in the direction of styal and away from the more fem stuff. The new iBooks and iMacs are a little fluffy looking but they are much better than the old iMac's The TiBooks and Towers look very sleek, professional, and down right sexy.

 

[evildead]

Originally posted by krossfyter
doesnt it say in scripture that God hates....(something)....


im not sure though.


but yeah C.S. Lewis is the man.

no... but it does say that Gays are worty of death. Along with Gossupers and a few other bad people. Romans 2 23 or so.

Thats one of the reasons why Im not a christain.

As for gays? Who cares? I don't. They are people that just like things a diffrent way. I like Onions in my Marti's Most people do not. Does that mean I need to be labled? I am now part of the "Gipson group", my helth bennifits will be changed and any marages that I might have in the future will only be recognised in states were Gipson Marti's are popular. I'm sure if any one looked in my bedroom window and saw what king of things I was doing with my Girl friend, I might be considered a sexual deviant. And I do it with My Marti in hand!

 

[Taft]

AIDS Ride.

Just curious if anyone out there has done the AIDS ride??

And before anyone says it--I know, its not a gay-oriented ride, its for AIDS. But the representation of gays and celebration of being themselves on the ride is incredible.

I did the ride last summer and met some really incredible people on it both gay and straight. It was one of t he best groups of people I've ever encountered in my life Everyone on the ride was really nice, kind and generous. I'm from a small town in the upper penninsula of Michigan and the gay community isn't really represented up there. So this was one of my first introductions in these regards.

It was actually kind of funny--in most places in the world, people make the assumption that you are straight. But on the AIDS Ride, everyone automatically assumed I was gay. I went with a friend of mine from work and we are both straight males, but everyone we met kept thinking we were a couple. It makes it kind of hard to meet women to have a relationship with if they assume your not only taken but "not available" in other regards. Heh.

If anyone would like to do some charity work and is looking for a re-affirming experience as well, I highly recommend the AIDS Ride. It was really a great experience.

Matthew

 

[mischief]

(sigh)

The HIV pandemic is a very sad state of affairs. The solution to retroviruses is remarkably simple.....ask any immunologist or virologist. It's a weak virus.

Most of the dammage associated with the AIDS syndrome is not directly caused by the HIV but by the immune system reacting to an abundance of characteristic "tagger" protiens that slough off of the virus as it travels throughout the body. Effectivelty HIV has "chaff". The body exhausts itself attacking anything with the right chemical signature which, unfortunately includes a large number of native, innocent cells.

Once the body is weakened and tenderizing itself the oppertunistic infections take over and kill the patient.

The problem is this:

No amount of money will change the fact that the very people that have been trusted to cure AIDS don't want to. They want to Treat AIDS. There is a VERY distinct difference. Curing it solves the problem. Treating it makes money. The same is true of Cancer and many other deadly ailments. The technology exists but there is more motivation in greed than in doing what's right.

The whole situation pisses me off and sends me into a funk. So in answer to your question: No, I haven't been to an AIDS ride or walk cuz I'd feel like a hypocrite for raising money that won't go to solving the problem, only to prolonging the suffering of millions of people. Sorry to be such a downer. I just had to get that off my chest.

 

[Rower_CPU]

If you've never seen it, the AIDS quilt is a life changing experience...

I saw one a few years ago, and it's impossible not to be touched by the human emotion expressed on those pieces of fabric. AIDS affects everyone from poor people in Africa with no access to education and contraceptives, to superstar actors and athletes...

The misconception that AIDS is a "gay" disease is keeping the effort to find a cure from being taken up in earnest. Straight people and gay people are dying everyday from this disease...very sad...


On just a slightly related note, if you've never seen/heard Rent (the musical) you're missing out on a great piece of modern musical theater. Jonathon Larson, the author, was an amazing talent who succumbed to AIDS before seeing his success come to full realization...and, yes, straight men can enjoy musicals...I can sing Broadway with the best of them, and I'm proud of it!

 

[Gelfin]

Re: Too good to last...

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
First off, who says that gay men are all "cultured, polite, and educated"?

*snicker* Um, yeah, I invite agreenster to visit the bar I had to walk past on my way to work for several months. Cultured, polite and educated were not on the menu.

Originally posted by eyelikeart
It's a shame to say that everywhere in this country in the year 2002...not 1879...

Ironically, American culture was, overall, far more tolerant of homosexuality in 1879. The political boundaries had not been drawn quite so explicitly at that time. It was not terribly uncommon for single people (male and female) to have very close same-sex friendships. Most of those eventually went on to heterosexual marriages. Nowadays it would be almost impossible to make such a transition, because you'd be stigmatized from both directions.

agreenster clearly just has this common stereotypical view of gay people. Even before he gets to the misplaced moralizing, his supposed "practical" argument has gone all wrong. Gay men aren't depriving women of good mates, because there are also lesbians. Nobody's forcing women into relationships with jackasses.

As to the argument that it's "not natural," that argument only obtains if you stick to the assumption that the only reason for sex is procreation. There's ample evidence in other primate species (as well as cetacians, as somebody pointed out earlier) that sex also serves a valuable social purpose. Binobos (kind of like a small chimp) have a social structure where what humans call "sex acts" are practically currency, and occur between individuals pretty much regardless of any of the strictures humans regard as "natural."

Furthermore, there is some evidence to suggest that incidence of homosexuality increases with density of local population. Now one explanation for this might be that the "everybody knows everybody else's business" nature of smaller communities keeps smaller-town folk in the closet more effectively, but another hypothesis put forth is that homosexual behavior is an instinctive, natural population limiter. Instinctive or not, it does tend to have that effect, and so that would certainly be the "one good thing" agreenster was looking for.

 

[Gelfin]

Re: (sigh)

Originally posted by mischief
The problem is this:

No amount of money will change the fact that the very people that have been trusted to cure AIDS don't want to. They want to Treat AIDS. There is a VERY distinct difference. Curing it solves the problem. Treating it makes money. The same is true of Cancer and many other deadly ailments. The technology exists but there is more motivation in greed than in doing what's right.

I have no doubt there's some of that going on in the biotech/pharmaceutical industry, but I have a lot of very good friends at UCSF who get really upset at the implication that they're not interested in curing things, especially since a healthy percentage of them are in their chosen fields partially as a result of having someone very close to them suffer and/or die as a result of the conditions they are researching.

At least you're not one of those "ACT-UP" conspiracy loons we've got out here. Those people are scary.

 

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
If you've never seen it, the AIDS quilt is a life changing experience...

I saw one a few years ago, and it's impossible not to be touched by the human emotion expressed on those pieces of fabric. AIDS affects everyone from poor people in Africa with no access to education and contraceptives, to superstar actors and athletes...

The Quilt moves around a lot, or at least pieces do... I can't remember the last time it was whole, but I think it's been reassembled recently. I need to make pilgrimage out to see it, part of it came through Iowa not too terribly long ago but I couldn't make it. Everyone that I know who's seen it is rather breathless...


pnw

 

[rainman::|:|]

Re: Re: Too good to last...

Originally posted by Gelfin


*snicker* Um, yeah, I invite agreenster to visit the bar I had to walk past on my way to work for several months. Cultured, polite and educated were not on the menu.

i'm shocked! hehehe...

As to the argument that it's "not natural," that argument only obtains if you stick to the assumption that the only reason for sex is procreation. There's ample evidence in other primate species (as well as cetacians, as somebody pointed out earlier) that sex also serves a valuable social purpose. Binobos (kind of like a small chimp) have a social structure where what humans call "sex acts" are practically currency, and occur between individuals pretty much regardless of any of the strictures humans regard as "natural."

Furthermore, there is some evidence to suggest that incidence of homosexuality increases with density of local population. Now one explanation for this might be that the "everybody knows everybody else's business" nature of smaller communities keeps smaller-town folk in the closet more effectively, but another hypothesis put forth is that homosexual behavior is an instinctive, natural population limiter. Instinctive or not, it does tend to have that effect, and so that would certainly be the "one good thing" agreenster was looking for.

Ever read the research of how female penguins prostitute themselves for stones (for their nests)? Seems like both genders get something out of it, yet it's not reproduction - they often use one partner for that... Slays the belief that sex is only for procreation, as do several other animal activities.

That said, population control is the reason I think homosexuality exists. I realize there are many other ideas, and that this isn't acceptable to some, but it makes the most sense to me. Get a man and a woman together, and nature has little to say about them popping out 10-15 kids (happens more than you think)... So eventually, 6 billion people later, something has to be done. Disease and famine don't work, we've cured them (enough to overpopulate anyway) so this is a natural evolutionary step. Can't believe I just compared gays to cancer. *slaps myself* Anyway, think of it this way: If religion and society in, say India, didn't force gays to live heterosexual lives, perhaps they wouldn't have a billion people?

I read an article this morning about how gays in China are finally starting to come out, after it was decriminalized in 1997 and removed from the list of mental disorders the following year. But because of societal restrictions, they may dance and have "fun" at gay clubs, but then go back to their wives and kids. This concept just amazed me, I mean this is a country where female babies are put in the dust bin as a matter of custom, to prevent overpopulation... and they're still making fags breed?!? in a situation like that, you just have to wonder...


pnw

 

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by evildead
no... but it does say that Gays are worty of death. Along with Gossupers and a few other bad people. Romans 2 23 or so.

Thats one of the reasons why Im not a christain.

Don't forget those who wear cotton/poly blends, and those that cook a baby goat in it's mother's milk (?)

Oh, and a person with a vision disability cannot approach the alter of God...

I like Onions in my Marti's Most people do not. Does that mean I need to be labled? I am now part of the "Gipson group", my helth bennifits will be changed and any marages that I might have in the future will only be recognised in states were Gipson Marti's are popular. I'm sure if any one looked in my bedroom window and saw what king of things I was doing with my Girl friend, I might be considered a sexual deviant. And I do it with My Marti in hand!

ewww onions... hehe...
Yeah, I wonder about those guys that practice sodomy (anal not oral, and i'm not saying you do, hell i'm not saying i do) with their wives (gotta get the good submissive kind, eh?) and then condemn gays for it... Ahh but there could be an entire thread about annoying hypocracies...

BTW, evildead, have I mentioned i love your avatar?

pnw

 

[evildead]

re: paulwhannel

Thanks... a buddy of mine made my avatar for me. He says that its me. He says im shady... I have another one that looks like it with the eyes that move that I use for AIM. But is was too big for this site.


Acording to the good book 0' hypocracies... I'm in big trouble. But thats ok.

As for the onions... its the only way to go! Have to ever tried it that way? You should if your a fan of Vodika Martinis. Only the best.

-evildead

 

[3rdpath]

evildead, now i'm steamin

onions? vodka? blashemy ! this thread has hit a new low. get a hold of yourself man. get some gin( bombay sapphire ), get some olives- now!

ok, so i do like onions( just got some from the fridge) but i'm a dirty and bruised gin martini man..did i misplace my modifiers? oh well.

i tended bar for 8 years while a struggling musician and i have to say i make THE most amazing martinis. the research was grueling, but somehow i managed.

nothing like a martini and a nice stogie to take the edge off of the day.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Re: evildead, now i'm steamin

Originally posted by 3rdpath
nothing like a martini and a nice stogie to take the edge off of the day.

Now you're speaking my kind of language...a good cigar is worth the time it takes to enjoy it.

I haven't smoked in a while, since I don't have the time, but it was a very enjoyable way to relax on the weekends.

What're your favorite brands? I'm a big fan of Fuente 8-5-8s, but my experience is fairly limited...no Cubans yet

 

[Taft]

Re: (sigh)

Originally posted by mischief
The HIV pandemic is a very sad state of affairs. The solution to retroviruses is remarkably simple.....ask any immunologist or virologist. It's a weak virus.

...

The problem is this:

No amount of money will change the fact that the very people that have been trusted to cure AIDS don't want to. They want to Treat AIDS. There is a VERY distinct difference. Curing it solves the problem. Treating it makes money. The same is true of Cancer and many other deadly ailments. The technology exists but there is more motivation in greed than in doing what's right.

...

So in answer to your question: No, I haven't been to an AIDS ride or walk cuz I'd feel like a hypocrite for raising money that won't go to solving the problem, only to prolonging the suffering of millions of people. Sorry to be such a downer. I just had to get that off my chest.

But it is also an *adaptive* virus. The proposition of curing it is not as simple as you make it sound.

And you are right...resources do need to go into curing the problem. And the epidemic is not taken seriously enough.

But the problem with your reasoning is that there are millions of people in the world living with HIV/AIDS--many of whom don't know it. And many, many more that will get it in the years to come. In our search for a cure, we cannot forsake those people who have AIDS and need help, support, treatment and money. Living with this disease is very difficult in many ways and many of those people need help and people who care for them. For the people who can afford it, treatments are available that can greatly extend their lives and improve the quality of their lives with AIDS. For others the situation is much more bleak, simply for reasons of money or support.

Also, prevention of the virus must be a very high priority. The plight in Africa is very sad and disturbing. The lack of knowledge of the virus and even denial of its existence horribly cripples the attempts of those trying to prevent the virus's spread. This kind of problem is also spreading in America where people think the danger is subsiding.

Yes, finding a cure is important (and thats why there are also ride/walk/drives for vaccines and cures), but helping people who are living with the disease is equally important. In fact, AIDS events in any form support the cause of fighting AIDS as a whole and help raise awareness of the issue. The events that don't raise money for a cure make it very well known that their money goes to charities helping people living with AIDS and even go so far as recommending charities to donate to if you want to help find a cure. They do not *ever* minimize the importance of finding an AIDS cure and are very committed to fighting AIDS on *all* of its fronts.

Your assertion that raising money for the very needy people in the world living with AIDS is worthless or somehow hypocritical highly offends me. These charities are just of worthy of a person's money as research oriented charities. Please re-think your stance on these very hard working and kind people who help the AIDS stricken people of the world.

No hard feelings though. Lets just try to stick together against this horrible disease.

Matthew

 

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Are you kidding? I don't think even Steve Jobs when he was tripping on acid would have OKed an aesthetically revolting color scheme as Flower Power + Rainbow Logo...it would be like a Jackson Pollock painting using only pastel neon colors with a brief interruption of brilliant primary and secondary colors...yech!!!

Are you saying he wasn't on acid when he OKed just the flower power scheme?

 

[Rower_CPU]

Touché...probably just an acid flashback, not the full trip

 

[rainman::|:|]

Re: Re: evildead, now i'm steamin

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Now you're speaking my kind of language...a good cigar is worth the time it takes to enjoy it.

I haven't smoked in a while, since I don't have the time, but it was a very enjoyable way to relax on the weekends.

What're your favorite brands? I'm a big fan of Fuente 8-5-8s, but my experience is fairly limited...no Cubans yet

mmm i didn't see the point of cigars at first, but my father-in-law is a big stogie guy, and he lays a handful on me every time i see him... so i'm learning the finer points
Took me a good week to figure out how *not* to inhale... i think i broke my lungs...

'course now the sin taxes are really gonna hit 'em hard, so no cigars for me. or pop, or chocolate, or even air i'm pretty sure... damn democrats

pnw

 

[alex_ant]

Sorry I replied to that Rower, I didn't realize this thread was 5 friggin' pages long at the time and I was waaaay behind the conversation.

 

[3rdpath]

hey rower

yes, stogies are a good excuse to take a break. i consider myself a fan but not an afficianado( not enough time for research...) i like the fuente line-used to smoke the small cedar wrapped ones. my favorites right now are the romeo and julieta bully ( a robusto size stick) and the hoya de monterey Barron( a dark strong maduro puppy)-it'll leave you light headed.

cuban sticks rock but theres so much fake stuff out there now i just steer clear of them unless they have the proper providence. but i can say, without a doubt, real cuban cigars are amazing. i'm partial to cohibas but diplomaticos are nice also.

i sometimes order my bullys from Mike's Cigars in Florida-great prices and no tax. the only problem is i smoke em if i got em, so usually theres only two or three in my humidor that i've picked up locally.

regardless of the brand, its always nice to just to just lite one up, strain out a frosty cold( gin) martini, sit out on the front porch and let the world pass by.

 

[3rdpath]

sin tax

if they outlaw sodas, then only outlaws will have them.
( it was such an effective campaign for the nra!)

 

[Taft]

Cigars

I have recently started smoking cigars again. I'd been into them a few years ago. Like 3rdpath said, I'm no aficionado, but I enjoy a quality when I smoke it.

I've recently smoked a couple of P.G.'s (Paul Garmarian I think??). I picked a couple up after work today, in fact. They are really nice cigars. Not too heavy (leaving me a little too light headed) but not too light either. And realllll smooth taste. They are a really good fit for my tastes.

A friend invited me sailing tomorrow (sailing on Lake Michigan in April--brrrrrrr.) and I'm going to break one out on board. Maybe the weather will be nice and I'll get a glimpse of summer relaxation a little early.

Matthew

 

[evildead]

Re: evildead, now i'm steamin

Originally posted by 3rdpath
onions? vodka? blashemy ! this thread has hit a new low. get a hold of yourself man. get some gin( bombay sapphire ), get some olives- now!

ok, so i do like onions( just got some from the fridge) but i'm a dirty and bruised gin martini man..did i misplace my modifiers? oh well.

i tended bar for 8 years while a struggling musician and i have to say i make THE most amazing martinis. the research was grueling, but somehow i managed.

nothing like a martini and a nice stogie to take the edge off of the day.

You like them Bruised?? I always take my stired... never shaken and always with 3 Onions. I have a buddy that is a bartender... he played bartender at my last NewYears party... that was a dam good party. The best Martinis I have ever had and Nekedness... oh the Nekedness!!


For any one that hasent had it... try it with Onions!! And James Bond likes his martinis all watered down, I don't ... so bartenders... dont shake it!