MacUpdate Software Bundle Sale [Update]

[eenu]

Perhaps I shouldn't weigh in since I'm seen as part of the "man" in this scenario... but MacRumors participated in the first macheist promo as a promotional effort to provide MacRumors with additional exposure. This is just a continuation of that, and also a good deal on some Mac software.

This is a MacUpdate deal, not a MacHeist deal. MacHeist is just a promotional partner.

I think some of you are being a bit paternalistic about your approach to these developers... suggesting they can't take care of themselves. Especially with this promo, they presumably calculated that the increased exposure of their applications is worth whatever bottom line cost comes out to.

Advertising/promotion isn't free. The developers chose to go with a discount/sale model rather than spend $20,000 on advertising in Macworld magazine.

(note, I have no knowledge of the specific deals made for this promo; and I don't know anything about the charity accusations above)

arn

Arn with the greatest of respect i think the biggest question for people here is are you making revenue from it? ie have you been paid to advertise it?

I apologise for asking that question but really for me here as a MR user that is the most important thing.

If you are in business with MU and MH then i for one will not be financially contributing again and there are a couple other demis at the moment that feel the same and i am sure those numbers will grow as the day goes on and more people read the site.

 

[Flowbee]

The devs would be better off if you pirated the software instead.

I just don't understand the outrage.

Were the developers forced into this deal?

Are the developers so ignorant or stupid that they don't understand what they signed up for?

Who's stopping the developers from offering their own discounted bundles directly and keeping all of the profits?

 

[Vulkan]

Last time the developers made 1.1% while MacHeist made 90% profit. Thats roughly $5000 for each developer and $500,000 for MacHeist. This time the deal is nearly the same.

The devs would be better off if you pirated the software instead.

yup that is why i do them the favor... eventually i buy the apps from them...

 

[eenu]

Why? Even at that small percent, $5000 is a lot better than the $0 they would get if the software was pirated. And I echo many other people. The Dev's aren't forced into this. If they don't like this deal, they don't have to be a part of it.

No because of the thousands of support requests they will get from users than have basically paid peanuts for there wares..... pirated copies would go unsupported in the whole

 

[pgwalsh]

And thats why some people (most) buy music from the major labels, and others have stopped supporting them and started supporting the artists.

The difference here is that with music the music labels are also screwing the consumer. Its easier to stand by your morals when you are the one being hurt, when its just some other guy its pretty easy to just let the exploitation continue.

You're not comparing Apples to Apples. These are ISV's Independent Software Developers. They're not run by some major corporation unable to control where and how their software is sold or distributed.

I Quote:

"What’s in dispute is whether the money is being distributed equitably. Just because someone is satisfied with a bad deal doesn’t mean it isn’t a bad deal."

The "Indie Developers" are normally no more than a one man band. They are men and women that spends years of their lives making the great software you love so much. All these great apps on mac are made by people like this very few are from companies. Yes they maybe did make a bad decision but it should be up to you to do the right thing and but from them direct. Give them the proper price for their wares. Typically most of the bundle will be useless for most users so don't be greedy and spend an extra $10 and know you have paid well for your software and that the peep that made it is getting paid fairly for their time and expertise

Well if those 10 companies feel so wronged that they signed up for this deal, then maybe they should release a press statement. It's great to see that you've taken on the role of spokes person/advocacy for ISV's. Fantastic!

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

Why? Even at that small percent, $5000 is a lot better than the $0 they would get if the software was pirated.

Because they are paid a flat fee, not a percentage. No one would sign up to get 1% knowing the promoter gets 90%. Thats why Ryu keeps all the numbers secret and prevents the developers from discussing or disclosing the information.

If you buy the package the dev has to provide support and does not get paid anything for it (he gets the $5k regardless of whether you buy the package or not). If you pirate the software he gets the same exposure but doesn't have to provide support and you don't support the MacHeist profiteers.

 

[eenu]

You're not comparing Apples to Apples. These are ISV's Independent Software Developers. They're not run by some major corporation unable to control where and how their software is sold or distributed.

Well if those 10 companies feel so wronged that they signed up for this deal, then maybe they should release a press statement. It's great to see that you've taken on the role of spokes person/advocacy for ISV's. Fantastic!

There are already links in this thread

And not all 10 felt wronged the companies run by the mac heist members took $15,000 each whilst the loan indie devs took 5.... i will say it again, what’s in dispute is whether the money is being distributed equitably. Just because someone is satisfied with a bad deal doesn’t mean it isn’t a bad deal.

NOTE: Figures based on Grubers estimates in linked report

 

[SeoxyS]

I'm a dev participating in this bundle.

I'm a pretty tired to read people feeling sorry for me because I'm screwing myself with this promo.

I've made a marketing decision. Be it good or bad, it's my decision. I know what I'm doing.

Please stop fighting my battles.


------

And to those who think like Gruber and Muller, in numbers. Those numbers might be true, but then again, they might not.

It's not important. What's important is the exposure we get from promos like this. Thanks to this, I'm reaching tens of thousands of potential customers. If the buyers like my product (which I hope they will) they'll talk about it to their friends, who will turn into a full sale for me. There might be people that didn't buy the bundle. Also, this will mean more reviews for me, more refferal. More exposure.

Basically, it's advertising, but I don't have to pay for it!

 

[pgwalsh]

If they're getting that many support requests for Mac software then they shouldn't be Mac Software developers.

 

[iSee]

Perhaps I shouldn't weigh in since I'm seen as part of the "man" in this scenario... but MacRumors participated in the first macheist promo as a promotional effort to provide MacRumors with additional exposure. This is just a continuation of that, and also a good deal on some Mac software.

This is a MacUpdate deal, not a MacHeist deal. MacHeist is just a promotional partner.

I think some of you are being a bit paternalistic about your approach to these developers... suggesting they can't take care of themselves. Especially with this promo, they presumably calculated that the increased exposure of their applications is worth whatever bottom line cost comes out to.

Advertising/promotion isn't free. The developers chose to go with a discount/sale model rather than spend $20,000 on advertising in Macworld magazine.

(note, I have no knowledge of the specific deals made for this promo; and I don't know anything about the charity accusations above)

arn

What bothers me is that this is really an ad being passed off as a page one news story. This kind of cross-promotional deal really hurts MR's credibility. When we see a story on MR, we've got to ask ourselves: It this here because MR editors think it's newsworthy, or is it here because MR stands to make a buck off it (directly or indirectly).

If MR wants to mix ads and editorial content, that's fine, but don't expect that there won't be longer term repercussions. This is especially true when dealing with people with dirty reputations--that dirt can get on you.

(However, I do NOT see the Mac developers that are participating in this or the previous bundle as being taken advantage of.)

 

[SeoxyS]

There are already links in this thread from an indie dev who took part last time

What, you've got one link? You're aware that Gus didn't even participate?

You want more?

http://wilshipley.com/blog/2006/12/marketing-irony.html

http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2006/12/taking_the_heist.html

also check this out: http://theocacao.com/document.page/378 since you like links

 

[Jimmdean]

What bothers me is that this is really an ad being passed off as a page one news story. This kind of cross-promotional deal really hurts MR's credibility. When we see a story on MR, we've got to ask ourselves: It this here because MR editors think it's newsworthy, or is it here because MR stands to make a buck off it (directly or indirectly).

If MR wants to mix ads and editorial content, that's fine, but don't expect that there won't be longer term repercussions. This is especially true when dealing with people with dirty reputations--that dirt can get on you.

(However, I do NOT see the Mac developers that are participating in this or the previous bundle as being taken advantage of.)

How is this not news? Just look at what it's stirred up already on Day 1...

 

[Manic Mouse]

So what're the chances of this reaching the full sales target? I'd definitely be interested if I can get all the apps...

 

[yagran]

Arn with the greatest of respect i think the biggest question for people here is are you making revenue from it? ie have you been paid to advertise it?

I apologise for asking that question but really for me here as a MR user that is the most important thing.

If you are in business with MU and MH then i for one will not be financially contributing again and there are a couple other demis at the moment that feel the same and i am sure those numbers will grow as the day goes on and more people read the site.

Its not your place to ask how much Arn is making from this publically, thats a question for PM if you really have to ask it at all. Im sad you feel that way but you sound linke a little girl, ask the actually developers involved if they are unhappy with the deal! of course they are happy, otherwise they wouldnt have done it!!! please just be mature, take a step back and think.

 

[eenu]

What, you've got one link? You're aware that Gus didn't even participate?

You want more?

http://wilshipley.com/blog/2006/12/marketing-irony.html

http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2006/12/taking_the_heist.html

also check this out: http://theocacao.com/document.page/378 since you like links

All lame links one of which was written by someone at delicious software which were paid more than the small devs....3x more.

Its not your place to ask how much Arn is making from this publically, thats a question for PM if you really have to ask it at all. Im sad you feel that way but you sound linke a little girl, ask the actually developers involved if they are unhappy with the deal! of course they are happy, otherwise they wouldnt have done it!!! please just be mature, take a step back and think.

I would but arn never replies to his mail. And i wasn't asking him how much i was asking if he was making any. I just want to know if this is basically paid advertising as a news item on MR and if so then my financial contributions to this site will cease along with some other people.

I assume some will be happy, and good for them, but again a bad deal is still a bad deal..... the thing that gets me more is the people running the bundle and how much they take. More money should be given to the devs and more to charity.

Not only that devs should all be given the same deal. Not some paid $15,000 and some $5,000 and then told to not talk to each other so they dont find out.

Now deals like this with the partners they have should be well aware of the number of sales they get and as such should have increased the amount the devs get.... or more sensibly given a percentage. But the deal is only a tiny bit better than last time and thus is still ripping people off whether they think they are getting a good deal out of it or not.

At SeoxyS, your app is $14.95. I like your app and was going to buy it today at that price. Your telling me you would rather i went via a bundle where you stand to make $0.3?

NOTE: Estimated figures by Gruber

 

[yagran]

Not only that devs should all be given the same deal. Not some paid $15,000 and some $5,000.

NOTE: Estimated figures by Gruber

surely thats based on how much the app contributes to the bundle..?

so if 40% were most intersted in buying the bundle because off App X, and 20% were most intreseted in App Y, then surely App Y deserves roughly 2x more of a cut?

lets not argue much love

 

[eenu]

surely thats based on how much the app contributes to the bundle..?

so if 40% were most intersted in buying the bundle because off App X, and 20% were most intreseted in App Y, then surely App Y deserves roughly 2x more of a cut?

lets not argue much love

See i could agree to that reasoning but some of the apps written by the heist members taking 15k were smaller than some of the indie apps taking 5k.... not to mention the 'don't talk to anyone else about what your getting'.

I'm not arguing i just believe in paying people what they deserve. if the dev above is happy with his ~$5000 then great (i say approx as he got a bit more than that). But as i said. I can buy his app now for $14.95 now, which i want to or pay $0.3 max in the heist bundle. so his advertising is costing him $14.65 per copy sold. That is not smart promotion even if he sees it as free promotion.... if of course he has an upgrade due soon and thus will force people to upgrade at full price then its smarter promotion. As it stands its a third party making a massive amount of money on him with little in return.

Anyways each to their own...

NB: The figures are rough examples as only data from the last heist exists taken from estimates by Gruber

 

[isgoed]

I just bought trough macupdate

It seems there is a whole lot of commotion about how the profits are shared. I hope that the developers will get their fair price.

I actually bought this for GraphicConverter and Fetch. I use these programms regularly but found the price a bit steep. I once emailed to the Fetch developer stating that I was willing to pay $15 for the software. But now I can still show my support and get an opportunity to support other indy developers as well. Also with the current Euro/Dollar Exchange Rate this is a good deal for Europeans.

 

[moosecat]

Its not your place to ask how much Arn is making from this publically, thats a question for PM if you really have to ask it at all. Im sad you feel that way but you sound linke a little girl, ask the actually developers involved if they are unhappy with the deal! of course they are happy, otherwise they wouldnt have done it!!! please just be mature, take a step back and think.

If MacRumors wants to be taken at all seriously as a source for journalism, then it's not only a legitimate question, it is a question that must be answered. No reputable news source would publish an "article" in which it had a direct financial interest without disclosing the interest.

I have no idea whether Arn has an interest or not. But if he (or anyone else associated with MacRumors) does, then it absolutely should be clearly stated along with the article.

 

[SeoxyS]

At SeoxyS, your app is $14.95. I like your app and was going to buy it today at that price. Your telling me you would rather i went via a bundle where you stand to make $0.3?

Obviously no one would prefer that, but that's besides the point.

What I'm saying is that this for me this promo is worth it for all the exposure it creates.

I bet you've never heard of my app before today's bundle. Without this bundle, you would never have heard of it. Now you might buy it: it was worth it. Multiply someone like this by a few thousands, and that's where the real cash comes in.

 

[eenu]

I bet you've never heard of my app before today's bundle. Without this bundle, you would never have heard of it. Now you might buy it: it was worth it. Multiply someone like this by a few thousands, and that's where the real cash comes in.

I actually had heard of it but i get your point about exposure except you need ~50 sales on bundles for the equiv of every sale you make normally. You potentially could be looking at 20,000 new customers which equates to only 400 sales at full price. I just hope you don't get 1,000+ of those emailing for tech support etc

Anyway good luck to you. I will be running a similar promotion at some point in the future except i will only be taking operating costs out of the pot then splitting the money between all devs equally. I also provide reviews for software and allow devs to offer special time limited offers such as 50% off. IF your interested SeoxyS please PM me, i genuinely like your app.

@moosecat.... i couldn't have put it better myself. Thank you for saying what i was trying to say.

 

[Donnacha]

Look, I WANT Macrumors to report on stuff like this, it IS news and I subscribe to the feed because I don't want to miss out on good offers.

I'm sick of the bull**** math people are using to justify their crusade against this voluntary marketing model. I can tell you that, coming from a Windows background, I very, very rarely buy software but I went ahead and bought the 1st MacHeist bundle before I even had a Mac - I knew I'd be getting one but was in a holding pattern, waiting for Leopard but finally getting an SR MBP a couple of weeks ago.

I absolutely WOULD NOT have bought any of the software in the MacHeist bundle and, most likely, would never have bothered to try them as demos. Now, having had a chance to use them, I would say that I am probably going to be a paying TextMate and DevonThink user for life and my father, a major book collector, was so impressed by Delicious Library that he will be buying his own MBP and a full-priced copy of it - that, surely, is a pretty spectacular marketing success!

The other included software at least got their chance to strut their stuff to me... who knows, I might get into the Pangea game and buy more. I might discover a need for Disco when I get more into my Mac - I like the idea of keeping a record of what I've burned.

Again, I am not a habitual software buyer but the MacHeist bundle introduced me to the value of well-written Mac software. That marks a sea-change in my way of looking at software at precisely the right time i.e. when I'm switching to Mac.

One observation I would make is that, if these bundles are parasitic, Mac developers should organize there own versions and share the profits equally.

Another thought: if the number of Mac users continues to explode with the introduction of Leopard, all Mac developers should take that wider base of potential customers as an opportunity to price their products more competitively, hopefully persuading the new influx of switchers to leave their warez days behind them on the PC.

Bear in mind that a price that seems small to American eyes might be more of a consideration to those of us in the rest of the world. Right now, thank's to the insane amounts of money you're haemorrhaging in Iraq, the dollar is in the gutter and US prices are great value but I fear that the election of a competent administration next year will put prices out of reach again. Please keep voting Republican.

 

[displaced]

about the iSight activation on the MacHeist site...

Said there was an error for my MacBook. Maybe I have too much porn... (is there ever such a thing?)

This isn't a security exploit. No video from your camera is being sent across the network. You can verify this by checking activity lights on your cable modem (or other device) whilst viewing the video.

It's simply an instance of the Safari QuickTime plugin, set to display your iSight on your own screen. Completely and utterly harmless, and slightly entertaining in the context that the page is trying to establish (a hyper-secret login thing. Quite nicely done).

So, whatever the merits or otherwise of MacHeist, they're not elite hax0rz who are watching you in your birthday suit.

 

[Eraserhead]

I have to admit I'm being screwed too. I have been convinced by the FSF to release my software for free. To help solve this problem please transfer lots of money into my bank account, please.
[/sarcasm]

That is the impression some people seem to have of MacHeist, which I can't comment on as I'm not taking part. But I do enable people to download software from my website for free, which actually costs me a small amount of money to allow people to do.

But there are four ways in which releasing my software for free benefits me:

1. I find out if I really enjoy making software, so I don't end up doing it professionally and find that I hate it.

2. I get something on my CV, so that people can see how good the software I actually develop actually is, they can also see how the software develops over time and see how productive I am.

3. I'm forced to code the application well, I can't require the user to edit the file in a text editor to change something, even if that would make things easy for me, it also throws up certain features which I should have added from the beginning as converting the users files to work with them is sometimes a right pain.

4. By collaborating with other people I can show that I can work in a team environment, which is how development occurs in "the real world".

The user benefits too in the sense that they get to use some (hopefully great) software for free, and that's a good thing too, but I'm not getting screwed here, and neither is the user.

Now with regards to support, my application is released under the GPL, so I don't have to offer support.

However I'd have thought that these developers taking part know how many customers they have and they know roughly how many people will buy the package so they should be in a fairly good position to know how much extra support they'll have to do and they have to work that out, they can communicate about this they aren't forced to take part, and if they think the terms are unfair developers could set up their own package with better terms.

With regards to piracy, software pirates ask for support too see:
this article about that, and that if you encourage piracy now, people will pirate software at other times and think that it's acceptable, which it isn't.

Finally with regards to some application developers getting more money, well that's life, that's the world we live in, and the difference is far less than in most other fields.

 

[Donnacha]

... I will be running a similar promotion at some point in the future ...

Ah, that explains a lot

...except i will only be taking operating costs out of the pot then splitting the money between all devs equally. I also provide reviews for software and allow devs to offer special time limited offers such as 50% off. IF your interested SeoxyS please PM me, i genuinely like your app.

If you do get a bundle together, I think Panic's Unison would be a perfect flagship product, mainly because it is not, itself, though nicely designed, a product that most people need but it would impress and would lead to a high percentage of spin-off sales for their most popular and, arguably, more necessary product, Transmit, especially if they also included a $10 discount for Transmit. Panic also have a relatively large range of other products, so, lots of upside for them.