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Macworld NY 2002 Round-Up

Re: Petition available!

Originally posted by andreascarlsson
http://www.petitiononline.com/iTol/petition.html
Click to expand...

wow thanks mac fans for allowing me to be part of a larger voice.....
is there a petition for the Jag ripoff (i know i know, we get new features
but hell I dont care for the new features except for WATSON/Sherlock
and I woulda bought that on my own.....early adopters shouldnt get
screwed.....THE PERFORMANCE should of been their already....

Oh yea.....didnt you guys see how down and nervouse steve was....

IN STEVES HEAD;
........how am I gonna get them to bend over and take it TWICE in one show...
 
Originally posted by swahilibill
Apple really took their tiny microsoft $%#'s and bent us over with Jaguar, what a bunch of #$%$heads. $129.00 for and update, bull****, I am not paying that, thats crap!
Click to expand...

well unfortunatly I'll bite the bullet on this one 'cause of the
speed improvements but that's it.....no more early adoption for me.
 
Re: the petition

Originally posted by gelbin
andrea
this may be the place.
we need also to include the jaguar issues.

it would be nice to have something a little more 'independent', rather than a 'prefab' sortof petition. but shoot, i should not be complaining.

but, to those who are concerned, lets make an concerted effort. lets get everyone from all of the machead sites together and get this going.

let's get it noticed by the tech media, and apple will have to respond.
Click to expand...

feel free to go to apple.com and post a more "independnt" compaint
as well......I did..

I will sign every patition on this issue that I see before me



oops I better go take a chill pill.....I see I've OVER POSTED...sorry folks.
 
you are absolutely correct beatle, apple has gone micro**** on us, its unbelievable, first, charging for a virus protection in .mac that will never be goddam used. macs rarely get viruses. .mac email was promised to be free for life, and 129 for Jaguar is un$%#$ingbelievable. I dont even remeber mac os x costing that much in the beginning. I cant believe I am saying this, but I hope apple loses a **** load of money and then rethinks this ass$%^$ing campaign so well known to pc users!
 
In all fairness Macrosoft came from the post below

Originally posted by ladrums1000
Attached is a letter I just wrote apple. I encourage everyone who has recently bought a new mac with OSX.1.4 to write apple as well......
...............................................................Apple was different that microsoft,
but now feel that I should call you Macrosoft.
SARUPA
Click to expand...

the above was actually a letter ladrums1000 wrote to apple.....
coining the fraise( i know the spelling) "MacroSoft"......at least
I think he did.....but I know it wasnt me I just stole it...hehe.
 
the difference

the difference between apple and microsoft, if nothing else, is this:

apple cares about 'us'.

they have to.

the 4000+ that have already signed the apple petition are significant in apple's eye. but not to microsoft.

when we are in number, we have some clout with apple.

we need to use it.
 
Just to point things out ...

You know, all this whining just frosts my cookies ..

I would like to point out that:

1995 System 7.0 to 7.5 was $99
1996 System 7.5 to 7.6 was $99
1997 System 7.6 to MacOS 8.0 was $99
1998 MacOS 8.0 to 8.5 was $99
1999 MacOS 8.5 to 9.0 was $99
2001 MacOS 9.0 to 10.0 was $129

All of those happened a year to a year and half apart. At each stage, there was a major addition of functionality, whether it be a .0, .5. or a single point upgrade in OS number. The $129 for Jaguar isn't that far out of line.

As for the $99/year for .Mac ...

All I can say is that some folks need to get over the idea of getting things for free perpetually. I mean really. You get an email address, sometimes several, from the ISP that you used to dial up the net in the first place, so why in blazes do you need a free one from Apple? As others on this forum have pointed out. it takes hardware, software, electricity, floorspace, salaried administrators, etc to run a service like iTools, so why did you expect to get it for free forever? Even if we assume that not all users will max out their accounts, do a little math for a minute ...

2.2 M users at the moment, per keynote statement today. Lets assume that only 25% of that actually use all 25MB of disk space and a further 50% of the total use the whole 5MB of email storage space at any one time....

2.2M * 25% = 550000 users occupying 25MB of disk space each equals what, 13.76 terabytes? somebody check my math on that ..

Add to that 1.1M * 50% = 550000 users occupying 5MB of email storage each equals 2.75 TB of drive space, for a grand total of a little over 16.5 terabytes? Is that correct?

And that's the _existing_ system. Under the new scheme, each user gets 100MB of disk and 15 MB of email, so factor accordingly. Do you think its CHEAP to provide that kind of hardware 7x24x365? To staff it and keep it running? To provide floor space to house these things, AC to keep them cool, etc?

Guess what guys, those expenses are ongoing, for as long as the service is offered, so a one-time revenue of you purchasing a machine doesn't cover it.

Ok, so thats enough ranting for me ...
 
Petition!

The petition is well written and typical of Mac users.

I am stunned by this - and to see all those machines we own - wow!

Apple - we love you! Dont screw us over too bad, please!

And it looks like we are going to get our email addresses, although I think it will cost $10 per year. Thats OK by me.

Now for the Jagular (yes thats how we spell it!) upgrade gouge......I will bid $49.99 for the upgrade.
 
Re: Just to point things out ...

Originally posted by racolvin
so why in blazes do you need a free one from Apple?
Click to expand...

It doesnt have to be totally free - but I really like having my mac.com address.
No other address has the same feel to it. And, I got my name@mac.com which is cool.

win98@hotmail.com or jerk@yahoo.com just doesnt cut it.

I am happy to pay $10 per year for just the email address. OK?
 
Re: Just to point things out ...

Originally posted by racolvin


Add to that 1.1M * 50% = 550000 users occupying 5MB of email storage each equals 2.75 TB of drive space, for a grand total of a little over 16.5 terabytes? Is that correct?

And that's the _existing_ system. Under the new scheme, each user gets 100MB of disk and 15 MB of email, so factor accordingly. Do you think its CHEAP to provide that kind of hardware 7x24x365? To staff it and keep it running? To provide floor space to house these things, AC to keep them cool, etc?
.
Click to expand...
Actually, about 160 100 gig drives will do the job - thats say, 32 5 drive enclosures at around a $1000 apiece. Add , say 5 servers at Apple cost of, say $2000 each.
Total hardware outlay, lets say $50,000.

traffic every month? About $3000 or bandwidth - that will get Apple about a triple T3, and assuming that they have lots of spare capacity anyway, the real cost could lower.

Add in two techs @ $75k per year each, and depreciation at 30% per year on the hardware.
Total outlay per year? About $210,000.

Advertising and brand recognition worth of this 2.2 million mac.com emails going out into the world? Priceless.

Now take 1.5 million users who want to keep the mac.com address and ask them for just $0.50 c each per year.

Will they pay $5? Well, will ya, punk? Sure you will!

Thats $7.5 million!

Now charge them $100 per year and only about 20,000 of the email crowd stay, (blindly believing they will use the iCal and iSync etc. and maybe they will....)
Now we have zero brand recognition and only $2 Million in revenue. If we are lucky.

Apple is on the right track, but give us the choice to take the Gold package or just the bronze email only package.

That way they make more money and we are all happy!
 
I am, quite frankly, amazed by the number of people who seem to be ignorant of the fact that Apple is a business that employs thousands of talented workers who are all working extended hours to executve a business plan that ensures the longevity of the platform you all claim to support.

How should Apple pay for its employees, its marketing, its advertising? Apple can't work for free, and they aren't moving enough hardware units to cover the cost of the *incredible* software (like the iApps) that they have *given away* to all of you. How often do you buy new Macs? How often do you download software for free from Apple?

In the same thread, I hope that those of you who are complaining about costs, especially with regard to .Mac, don't think that the web is meant to be free and will remain free forever...perhaps you are spoiled and just don't realize the fantastic costs involved. or maybe you've seen some internet companies close their doors recently. apple is providing seriously valuable, high-quality services, for a reasonable price. it is not one-size-fits-all, sure, but nothing is, and patience might do you all well.

The bickering about the revenue that Apple is seeking, just to be able to continue to provide you with a platform (if you don't pay, Apple will die, and then you'll *really* be up the creek...), belies a fairly significant lack of understanding of what's involved with creating and managing all that Apple does.

Do any of you have a real clue as to how much Apple employees are paid? How many work on different projects? What the scope of and reasoning behind these projects are?

I suggest being thankful that you have such a great platform, and supporting it to the best of your ability, *not* complaining. If you think Apple doesn't know about the issues you're raising, then you shouldn't be using a Mac. As you've apparently discovered, Apple doesn't always bend over backwards for some of its faithful. It is in the game to survive and succeed, like other companies; it's doing a great job.

Pay now, and reap the rewards later. Don't complain, you're just wasting your time. If you are dissatisfied, don't think an email is the panacea that will solve your problems. Switch platforms, or bite the bullet and take advantage of what you have, knowing that by helping to provide Apple with money, you'll be maintaining innovation on the platform you've already invested in.
 
This link is too long...

Well, after reading the rants and raves, I say most of you just need to go drink some NyQuil and settle down. Jaguar for $129 is fine with me. I don't know how some of you get it into your heads that only a minor .05 release can't be worth it. Hello!!! Version numbers are relative. Jaquar is a huge update, if we were in the olden days it would be a whole OS version number 7.5-8-8.5-9 whatever. iTunes in now at version 3 wow! And just think it only adds a handful of features from 2, however if it was named 2.1 a bunch of you would be upset. I still hope it supports encoding AAC, but I figure that Apple can't until it is sure Quicktime 6 is on all the systems (10.2), maybe I'm wrong and there are also licensing issues, but I see it coming sometime. .Mac is a little disappointing. I don't use anything but email, so I hope an email lite version is implemented for somewhere between $10-20 which will be fine with me. And get over the shock that rumors aren't reality. That where all the BSing comes from, and it will stop in a few weeks time. Then everyone will get excited for the next big illusion, and when it doesn't come about there will be BSing again. It's a cycle. Learn to deal with what you get.
 
Re: Just to point things out ...

Originally posted by racolvin
You know, all this whining just frosts my cookies ..

I would like to point out that:
Click to expand...


You forgot to point out that @mac.com email was suppose
to be free for life.......

sorry dude.


as for the update issue, you have some good points but the email
your flat.
 
Originally posted by merges
I am, quite frankly, amazed by the number of people who seem to be ignorant
Click to expand...


blah, blah, blah,......dude you missed the freaken point....you seem pretty
ignorant to the FACT that our email accounts at @mac.com was suppose
to be "FREE FOR LIFE"......got it or should I post again.....jeeze.
 
last checked # of sigs on anti-.mac peititon - 4999
# on anti-anti-.mac petition - 2

hmm.. guess I can't say your completely alone on that one..

(And how does being disgusted with $99/y email fee have any connection to ditching the Mac altogether and switching to wintel? nothing..)
 
I can't believe the people defending Apple can't see this

Orginally posted by merges:

I am, quite frankly, amazed by the number of people who seem to be ignorant of the fact that Apple is a business that employs thousands of talented workers who are all working extended hours to executve a business plan that ensures the longevity of the platform you all claim to support.
Click to expand...

There is no one on this board or in the Mac community who is not painfully aware that Apple is a business and needs to make money.

How should Apple pay for its employees, its marketing, its advertising? Apple can't work for free, and they aren't moving enough hardware units to cover the cost of the *incredible* software (like the iApps) that they have *given away* to all of you. How often do you buy new Macs? How often do you download software for free from Apple?
Click to expand...

By expanding it's userbase and diversifying. It won't do this by abusing the very people who have remained so loyal. A $129 price for an interim software release?? Are you kidding me? Maybe you could get away with that in the 80's and 90's when the market was far smaller, but its simply greed based today. (Why are we charging so much? Because we can. Ha ha ha) The iApps are loss leaders. They are the hook for new users. The value-added proposition if you will. They are necessary. Believe me Apple is not giving them away free because they feel warm and fuzzy toward you or me, but it because they see them as a means to an end: increased market share and increased profits. I have no problem with that. I used this example earlier: Ok, so the guy who buys a PM today get's 10.2 for $20. What about the person who bought one yesterday? or last month? or last week? They get screwed. (Hopefully Apple will do a 180 on this one)

The bickering about the revenue that Apple is seeking, just to be able to continue to provide you with a platform (if you don't pay, Apple will die, and then you'll *really* be up the creek...), belies a fairly significant lack of understanding of what's involved with creating and managing all that Apple does.
Click to expand...

Ok, this one is the kicker. Here's my response: If Apple needs to resort to these kind of heavy handed tactics to make money (it doesn't) then it deserves to die (IT DOESN'T) period. I love Apple, I love the machines and I even love SJ, assh--- that he can be. I will pay. Voluntarily. BUT DON'T SAY I HAVE TOO. Don't say anyone has to. That's what Apple did today.

I suggest being thankful that you have such a great platform, and supporting it to the best of your ability, *not* complaining.
Click to expand...

What the hell? Is the Czar in town? God forbid anyone think for themselves. That's what this company is all about. It isn't about being nice, it isn't about giving away the store, Apple is about thinking for yourself and NOT being like everyone else. (Don't think so? Then you need to go watch the 1984 superbowl ad again). That's all I, and a lot of others today are doing. It's not subversive, and it's not disloyal, and it's not a plot to undermine Apple.

I think it's the people who are so personally offended that anyone would dissent that need to chill. If anybody deserts the platform today, that's just plain crazy, but to question the decisions that were made and yeah, to let off a little steam, that's just human.

dh
 
For what it's worth

Here's my e-mail to apple if anyone is curious how this pacifist computer user is feeling:

"From the Mac 512k to the recent PowerMac G4's I've been an Apple loyalist. I've always been very happy with my decision. Until recently. Today's MacWorld left me feeling kind of trapped. There's a "switch campaign" going on, but I think it's working in the other direction.

It seems that the general strategy for Apple is that Macintosh users are willing to pay a premium for a better product. It's reflected in the pricing strategy of all the hardware lines from the G4 towers, the iMac, to the iPod, to the Cinema Displays. Yes, they cost more, but you are getting something better.

Today I see that strategy extends to other areas by charging a premium fee for the .Mac services. As well as the $129 pricing for Jaguar.

The only problem with this strategy is when the premium product is no longer premium. .Mac is at its base nothing more than an os integrated web hosting service without some of the attractive features that other web hosting plans offer such as PHP or MYSQL. I have no problem with charging for it. Nothing is free. But the pricing of the product should be reflective of what you are getting. Essentially all you are getting is some whizzy integration and a bunch of space. At $100 a year that is steep. You can't even fool yourself into thinking it's cheap by paying for it monthly. Other web hosting plans offer a more attractive package. Further, it seems that at the very least people need to be able to keep their "for life" .mac e-mail addresses without being coerced into subscribing to a web-hosting plan they don't really want. Sure, some people may think it is a great deal, but quite a few just want an e-mail address and will never begin to use that web server space. It feels like coercion. The only switching I see taking place here is to another e-mail server. If this is a precedent, then I suspect that two MacWorlds from now we can expect 49.99 pricing on each of the Digital Hub Apps. Offer them free originally, then when people are dependent on them, stick a price tag and coerce them to pay.

Further, the lack of upgrade pricing for Jaguar is offensive to the early adopters of OS X who have essentially been part of an extensive beta test. The absolute rigidity of the $129 price tag for anyone pre-July 17th feels like more coercion. Let me explain. OS 10.1.5 for all its promise is a lot of untapped potential. OS 10.2 looks to fulfill some of that potential, a real must-have upgrade. It's more the finished product of what OS X should have been originally. Charging such a steep price for a .1 upgrade seems silly at best. Also, I wonder about those "switch"ers who fell into the "life is better here" media assault. What are they thinking today? They already payed a hefty price for whatever computer they got. Now Apple wants more money? I see some wanting to switch back.

Which brings me to the final point. The inflated pricing of the whole g4 line. It just looks goofy to pay $2999 for Apple's premium computer when appreciably cheaper, faster computers are found on the Windows side. If the product itself can't be brought up to at least par, the prices need to be lowered to reflect this. I fear Apple put a little too much stock in the megahertz myth. Speed does matter. Megahertz matters. DDR matters. Four-speaker output matters. There's a reason inventory levels are high. It's simply hard to justify paying that price for a product that in many ways isn't competive with cheaper alternatives.

I'm in line for a computer upgrade and this switch campaign really has me thinking. I don't offer these sentiments as some antagonistic threat. I've invested a lot more than money into Apple products and I want them to succeed. I fear that if an ardent supporter such as myself is strongly considering what was long considered the "dark side" that other, less-invested users won't have the same reservations and really will switch to a Windows world. For future consideration, please consider exisiting long-time users and a possible "stay" campaign.

Sincere Regards,

Eric "
 
~jesyjames

Right on!

I agree.

APPLE has a new switch campaign and it IS to lose the old time MAC faithful.

They want the low brow computer half wits that will come from the Windoze world for any that will somehow simplifiy what they think is a confusing computer reality!

Thats why the PowerMacs arent refreshed.

There are too FEW, APPLE powerusers.
They have long ago SWITCHED.

Now to weed out those stubborn faithful.

What better way than to insult their loyality with outright manipulation!

JOBS looks OLD and foolish! Two old men sending lame messages to each other on a stage with old machines that barely run,,ROTFLOL!

Jobs had to SWITCH to a backup because one of his machines froze.
It wasnt frozen, It was just TOO SLOW to see anything happening! LOL

I never thought that it would happen again, but APPLE has managed to shoot itself once again, in the head!

SEND A MESSAGE! we will buy no LAMEware or OLD hardware at insane prices!

Bring out the GOOD stuff and stop the CON job, Hand JOB and HEAD job. JOBS!
 
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