Major gaming news at WWDC: Metal and New games

[Plutonius]

if frame rates are not good, people don't want to spend $60, 70, 80 dollars a game and only see 30 FPS.

It would probably depend on peoples perspective.

Any gaming that I have done is on a Mac and I'm happy with 30 FPS.

If I was used to gaming on a Windows gaming computer, I probably would want > 90 FPS.

I'm running Cyberpunk on a M3 MacBook Air (24GB RAM) and, to me, it runs great even though the presets cap it at 30 FPS.

 

[MRMSFC]

Just doing some googling it seems that the M3 and M4 is producing game performance akin to a RTX 4050, and the M1/M2 seem to align with the RTX 3050. That's the rub, the higher end Apple Silicon is only keeping up with the bottom tier RTX GPU from the prior generation - that's not even including ray tracing and/or frame generation.

Basically a similar situation as before the Apple Silicon transition then. Though with better battery life.

I wish Apple could/would iterate faster on the GPU side. It seems like they’re always one step behind.

That said, I don’t think the main issue with getting games on Mac is the gpu power, but it would be something nice to have.

 

[MRMSFC]

It would probably depend on peoples perspective.

Any gaming that I have done is on a Mac and I'm happy with 30 FPS.

If I was used to gaming on a Windows gaming computer, I probably would want > 90 FPS.

I'm running Cyberpunk on a M3 MacBook Air (24GB RAM) and, to me, it runs great even though the presets cap it at 30 FPS.

I don’t think we should be satisfied with 30fps on a five year old game though. It might be better than nothing, but it’s far, far from what it should be in my opinion.

And in terms of Apple’s goal of getting more games on the Mac platform, or marketing it towards gamers, I don’t think it helps either.

People are going to see this and just associate the Mac with being expensive for poor performance still, and that’s counterproductive.

 

[Plutonius]

I don’t think we should be satisfied with 30fps on a five year old game though. It might be better than nothing, but it’s far, far from what it should be in my opinion.

And in terms of Apple’s goal of getting more games on the Mac platform, or marketing it towards gamers, I don’t think it helps either.

People are going to see this and just associate the Mac with being expensive for poor performance still, and that’s counterproductive.

I agree that Apple should try to do better in gaming.

I was just trying to point out that many people think that 30 FPS is fine because they have never played on a Windows gaming computer.

 

[OptimusGrime]

I wish Apple could/would iterate faster on the GPU side. It seems like they’re always one step behind.
.

They have a new gpu pretty much every year. How much faster could they iterate? lol.

 

[Irishman]

I agree that Apple should try to do better in gaming.

I was just trying to point out that many people think that 30 FPS is fine because they have never played on a Windows gaming computer.

What do you think about their new Games app that’s going to be common to all their devices, and feature things like Mac games that you’ve bought on the MAS, Steam and Epic Games store, as well as better integration of and ways to invoke and the Metal performance HUD??

 

[Plutonius]

What do you think about their new Games app that’s going to be common to all their devices, and feature things like Mac games that you’ve bought on the MAS, Steam and Epic Games store, as well as better integration of and ways to invoke and the Metal performance HUD??

It sounds good to me.

 

[maflynn]

I was just trying to point out that many people think that 30 FPS is fine because they have never played on a Windows gaming computer.

One of the complaints of the Avowed game is that it was set for 30 FPS, and not 60 FPS, so I don't think the idea that non-windows gamers think 30 FPS is fine.

Avowed Runs at 30fps on Xbox Series X and S, Obsidian Confirms

 

[Plutonius]

One of the complaints of the Avowed game is that it was set for 30 FPS, and not 60 FPS, so I don't think the idea that non-windows gamers think 30 FPS is fine.

Avowed Runs at 30fps on Xbox Series X and S, Obsidian Confirms
View attachment 2530615

This is for Xbox series X. I should have specified MacOS only gamers.

People who only play MacOS games are used to 30 FPS .

 

[krell100]

 

[goro123]

This is for Xbox series X. I should have specified MacOS only gamers.

People who only play MacOS games are used to 30 FPS .

I am always suspicious of such generalisations

It's fair to say that the Mac ecosystem is not suited for high end gaming and customisable hardware (Graphics Card). Hitting Ultra setting at 60 fps has typically out of reach for most consumer Mac (Air, Pro, Max).

What is new, is that with MetalFX and Apple Silicon all machines (even entry level Air) can delivery a very enjoyable experience even on graphics intensive games. This is a game changer I read of a lot of MacBook Air users enjoying 3D games such as Resident Evil, Stray, CrossOver games…etc… myself, I played through RE:Village on an M1 Air and it was awesome.

The "For this Mac" settings is a brilliant idea to get a great experience "out of the box", all games on Mac should adopt it.

 

[diamond.g]

I am always suspicious of such generalisations

It's fair to say that the Mac ecosystem is not suited for high end gaming and customisable hardware (Graphics Card). Hitting Ultra setting at 60 fps has typically out of reach for most consumer Mac (Air, Pro, Max).

What is new, is that with MetalFX and Apple Silicon all machines (even entry level Air) can delivery a very enjoyable experience even on graphics intensive games. This is a game changer I read of a lot of MacBook Air users enjoying 3D games such as Resident Evil, Stray, CrossOver games…etc… myself, I played through RE:Village on an M1 Air and it was awesome.

The "For this Mac" settings is a brilliant idea to get a great experience "out of the box", all games on Mac should adopt it.

The For this Mac setting is why I like when DF does settings reviews on "normal" hardware. You can see the impact of changing settings and which settings to go with for the least visual impact but maximize performance.

Speaking of, it is strange that CDPR set the most impactful setting to a higher value (screen space reflections) than it should be for all of the Mac presets.

 

[OptimusGrime]

The For this Mac setting is why I like when DF does settings reviews on "normal" hardware. You can see the impact of changing settings and which settings to go with for the least visual impact but maximize performance.

Speaking of, it is strange that CDPR set the most impactful setting to a higher value (screen space reflections) than it should be for all of the Mac presets.

It’s a mistake. Psycho is always a manual setting afaik.

 

[Mac_fan75]

For your Mac setting sets my native resolution of my monitor to QHD while it's 4K so that is crap. Curious what it does on a MacBook Pro screen. The whole scaling of MetalFX you want that from your true native resolution is my believe?

Game is pretty playable with a bit of tweaking on Ultra mode with MetalFX on quality. I am not sure if I actually find the graphics nice, for some reason they don't really appeal to me or look meh.. I will try again later on my TV.
Tested this on 15.6 RC.

Never mind, it's the motion film stuff that makes it looks grainy which personally I hate so turned it off I like sharp images!

 

[Pressure]

For your Mac setting sets my native resolution of my monitor to QHD while it's 4K so that is crap. Curious what it does on a MacBook Pro screen. The whole scaling of MetalFX you want that from your true native resolution is my believe?

That's the whole point of upscaling. You render at a lower resolution than the final output resolution to gain performance.

 

[Mac_fan75]

That's the whole point of upscaling. You render at a lower resolution than the final output resolution to gain performance.

You actually have the game or not? I know how it works.

Using the MetalHUD in Tahoe ->

MetalFX Quality QHD -> 4K (target)
MetalFX Performance 1080 -> 4K (target)

So that base native setting should always be your native monitor resolution, or the target will be QHD.

 

[dmccloud]

You actually have the game or not? I know how it works.

Using the MetalHUD in Tahoe ->

MetalFX Quality QHD -> 4K (target)
MetalFX Performance 1080 -> 4K (target)

So that base native setting should always be your native monitor resolution, or the target will be QHD.

Except 4k is not the native monitor resolution for MBA/MBP/iMac, so the basis for your statement as a whole is null and void.

 

[diamond.g]

It’s a mistake. Psycho is always a manual setting afaik.

Wonder if they will fix it.

 

[Mac_fan75]

Except 4k is not the native monitor resolution for MBA/MBP/iMac, so the basis for your statement as a whole is null and void.

Lol my screen is 4k please read my post I am just curious if for this Mac on a MacBook Pro makes the same mistake setting a wrong native resolution.

 

[dmccloud]

Lol my screen is 4k please read my post I am just curious if for this Mac on a MacBook Pro makes the same mistake setting a wrong native resolution.

I read your post and it only applies in scenarios where the display's native resolution is 4k. Therefore it does not apply to iMacs, MacBook Airs, or MacBook Pros. While you can certainly run a game at native resolution, you will get better performance from upscaling - especially at native resolutions of 4k or greater. This is why DLSS (Nvidia) and FSR (AMD) have become major selling points for new GPUs. This is different from Nvidia faking frames to "simulate" higher framerates, because frame generation generates copies of the last completed frame rather than anything new.

 

[Mac_fan75]

I read your post and it only applies in scenarios where the display's native resolution is 4k. Therefore it does not apply to iMacs, MacBook Airs, or MacBook Pros. While you can certainly run a game at native resolution, you will get better performance from upscaling - especially at native resolutions of 4k or greater. This is why DLSS (Nvidia) and FSR (AMD) have become major selling points for new GPUs. This is different from Nvidia faking frames to "simulate" higher framerates, because frame generation generates copies of the last completed frame rather than anything new.

Did you check your MacBook Pro? My question has nothing to do with how DLSS or FSR works. The setting in CP2077 is just confusing. I just installed it on my MacBook Air, and it defaults to the scaled resolution of 1710x1112 so not the real native resolution 2560x1664. Menu looks crap and in game letter are less clear same goes for textures. This setting is simply not correct default for the MacBook Air nor if you set the game for this Mac mode. Makes it people review the game and complain about blurry text or textures.

 

[Homy]

Extended gameplay video released. Reminds me a bit of Control.

 

[MRMSFC]

They have a new gpu pretty much every year. How much faster could they iterate? lol.

Fair point, I guess I would like to see a “big iron” gpu from Apple.

I don’t know exactly how to describe it, but maybe a separate die for graphics logic on an interposer, similar to what AMD does with their CPUs.

I think the Max and Ultra SoCs are close to the reticle limit so the only way for more gpu power (other than the rumored “hidra” that never seems to show up) would be a secondary die.

I’m probably wishing for too much though.

 

[OptimusGrime]

Fair point, I guess I would like to see a “big iron” gpu from Apple.

I don’t know exactly how to describe it, but maybe a separate die for graphics logic on an interposer, similar to what AMD does with their CPUs.

I think the Max and Ultra SoCs are close to the reticle limit so the only way for more gpu power (other than the rumored “hidra” that never seems to show up) would be a secondary die.

I’m probably wishing for too much though.

I think we all want more competitive gpus on the high end. To be honest I’d like more consistency with desktops and monitors. I think they want to compete there. Who knows if or when they’ll get there. I think this years release will be very interesting.

 

[Homy]

According to HW Unboxed SSR Quality set to Psycho means a performance decrease by 42%. When testing on Mac choosing the Ultra settings preset gives you SSR Psycho but on PC SSR is set to Ultra. Many reviewers are still unaware of this like the one below.