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Good as defined by who? As soon as people mention good scores on even base Macs, people start nit picking about upscaling and frame gen. Success is not defined by high performance. One need only look at the Steam survey or the success of various consoles. During the 2010s pc gaming expanded a great deal, and a huge part of that was people gaming on terrible Intel igpus.

I think there is some confusion about what Apple is doing and what they need to do. They are not going after the “pc” market. They are just looking to increase the number of games available for people who have Macs. To do this they need more companies to release games. For that to happen, those companies need to be confident that they will make money. High end performance isn’t that important.
It is a game of compromises. It is also made harder because no one buys a Mac to play games, so the price to get good performance and good visuals is skewed on Mac hardware.

And of course folks are going to compare Mac to PC. Everyone wants justification that their platform of choice is better in the thing they believe it is better in. When that isn't quite true goal posts are moved till it is. That is just how people work.
 
Here's the rub, Apple markets the studio as a desktop computer, and people buy it for "desktop" performance. I don't think we can move the goalposts because its GPU performance is inferior to nvidia GPUs. Apple is rumored to be focusing their attention on the GPU side of things for the M5, but as it stands, I think its fair to compare my Mac desktop to my PC desktop


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Don't get me wrong, I love my Studio, its by far the best Mac computer I've purchased. Apple got its mojo back with regards to producing high quality, fast computers that are generally affordable.
Lol. I’m not moving goalposts. If an anything you are doing that by comparing a mobile soc with a desktop gpu.

In terms of cpu performance Studio with Max gets “Desktop” performance because their CPU’s outperforms its size and power budget. In terms of Blender work, the Max performs like a desktop and certainly outperforms your 7800 XT. Does it with Cyberpunk? No. Pcs have had many years of optimisation and driver cheats to get the performance they have with CP2077. Macs have had a single release and already the doomers start.
 
Good as defined by who?
The general consensus that sub 60FPS is considered poor. I have yet to see a game review where 30 FPS is not considered bad, even with game consoles there's been recent games where the publisher had to defend the fact that the game plays at 30FPS on the Xbox/PS5 (I forget which one specially
Success is not defined by high performance.
I completely disagree, people come out of the wood work, if frame rates are not good, people don't want to spend $60, 70, 80 dollars a game and only see 30 FPS. Yes, there's a lot more to a game then straight FPS, story, player engagement, plot, etc, but and its big but, if the game feels slow on a 4090 then people are going to be coming out of the wood work.

Cities:Skylines 2 is an example where the game came to crawl on top end xx90 GPUs and the developer tried to defend that 20 and 30FPS is fine for a city simulation game - they walked those comments back and later apologized about the games performance.

Lol. I’m not moving goalposts. If an anything you are doing that by comparing a mobile soc with a desktop gpu.
But you are, even Apple compared its Socs to nvidia in their various unveiling through the years. They didn't put an asterick saying "Mobile vs. Desktop
 
The bottom line is apple sells the studio and mac pro as the most powerful desktop computers, you cannot say that we shouldn't compare those desktops to pc desktops because its not a fair comparison
 
The bottom line is apple sells the studio and mac pro as the most powerful desktop computers, you cannot say that we shouldn't compare those desktops to pc desktops because its not a fair comparison
It is only a fair comparison when you are looking at software where Apple excels (so Blender, or Logic, or Final Cut, or really large language models), when you look at things they don't do well in (basically gaming) then you have to remember that the hardware is designed for mobile systems and shouldn't be compared with 3000 watt PCs....
 
The bottom line is apple sells the studio and mac pro as the most powerful desktop computers, you cannot say that we shouldn't compare those desktops to pc desktops because its not a fair comparison
You are cherry picking one aspect of a compact desktop and then comparing to a large tower with a power hungry gpu while ignoring the other aspects where the compact one beats your tower.

I can and will call out that as misleading.
 
The general consensus that sub 60FPS is considered poor. I have yet to see a game review where 30 FPS is not considered bad, even with game consoles there's been recent games where the publisher had to defend the fact that the game plays at 30FPS on the Xbox/PS5 (I forget which one specially

I completely disagree, people come out of the wood work, if frame rates are not good, people don't want to spend $60, 70, 80 dollars a game and only see 30 FPS. Yes, there's a lot more to a game then straight FPS, story, player engagement, plot, etc, but and its big but, if the game feels slow on a 4090 then people are going to be coming out of the wood work.

Cities:Skylines 2 is an example where the game came to crawl on top end xx90 GPUs and the developer tried to defend that 20 and 30FPS is fine for a city simulation game - they walked those comments back and later apologized about the games performance.


But you are, even Apple compared its Socs to nvidia in their various unveiling through the years. They didn't put an asterick saying "Mobile vs. Desktop
The above is just fundamentally wrong once you include consoles. Xbox, PS5, Switch do not run all titles above or even at 60fps, and they are sucessful. Once again, you cannot seem to understand that PC gaming is not the only way.
 
So when Apple does better on some applications, its fair to compare Macs to desktops, but when apple does not do better, then its an unfair comparison - Got it.
You are missing the point again. We should compare all aspects. You are comparing just one.
As I with you.
I didn’t say “you” are misleading, but your statement is. There is subtle difference that seems to elude you. Feel free to call me out if you think I am doing that. I don’t see much other than straw man allegations currently.
 
Extensive testing of Cyberpunk 2077 on M3 Max by zWORMz Gaming for the first time on his channel.

Yeah it is weird. He says that MetalFX is a little better than FSR, but not as good as DLSS. Whereas Digital Foundry said MetalFX was as good as DLSS. Is MetalFX visual quality dependent on implementation (like FSR)?
 
Yeah it is weird. He says that MetalFX is a little better than FSR, but not as good as DLSS. Whereas Digital Foundry said MetalFX was as good as DLSS. Is MetalFX visual quality dependent on implementation (like FSR)?

I guess there are several factors to consider at the time of testing, like the OS version, Metal version, HW specs and more. I think zWORMz speaked off the top of his head while DF did an in-depth comparison by zooming in on details.

A few things worth noting about the video, M3 Max in 14" throttles due to the form factor. Max chips work better in 16". The presets in Cyberpunk Mac are higher than PC despite the same name. For example Ultra on Mac equals to Psycho on PC.
 
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Yeah it is weird. He says that MetalFX is a little better than FSR, but not as good as DLSS. Whereas Digital Foundry said MetalFX was as good as DLSS. Is MetalFX visual quality dependent on implementation (like FSR)?
Did DF compare the latest version MetalFX to DLSS4?
 
I guess there are several factors to consider at the time of testing, like the OS version, Metal version, HW specs and more. I think zWORMz speaked off the top of his head while DF did an in-depth comparison by zooming in on details.

A few things worth noting about the video, M3 Max in 14" throttles due to the form factor. Max chips work better in 16". The presets in Cyberpunk Mac are higher than PC despite the same name. For example Ultra on Mac equals to Psycho on PC.
I forget what he said for the RT test. I got the impression he was surprised it did so well, except for the path tracing part. The screen space reflections setting is ignored when you have RT turned on (best I can tell).

I still agreed that the presets should be the same on all platforms.
Did DF compare the latest version MetalFX to DLSS4?
The last time they talked about MetalFX was with Resident Evil 8 (I think). No one has compared the latest MetalFX models to DLSS4 Transformer model explicitly.
 
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A few things worth noting about the video, M3 Max in 14" throttles due to the form factor. Max chips work better in 16". The presets in Cyberpunk Mac are higher than PC despite the same name. For example Ultra on Mac equals to Psycho on PC.
It would be good to see benchmarks with the Ultra settings corrected.
 
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Has anyone else noticed that Cyberpunk 2077 Ultimate Edition on the Epic Games store only has the Windows version listed??
 
It would be good to see benchmarks with the Ultra settings corrected.
I just tried on my M4 Pro Mini.

1080p Ultra. No upscaling, no FG. Screen Space Reflections Quality at Psycho = 37 fps
with it set to Ultra, like a PC, it’s 50fps! A 35% difference.
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Has anyone else noticed that Cyberpunk 2077 Ultimate Edition on the Epic Games store only has the Windows version listed??

Yes, the base game and DLC are labeled as Mac compatible but the Ultimate Edition is Windows only. Very strange since it basically includes those two ports. You could buy it and refund it if it doesn't work. It's the same with Humble. You get a license for GOG which has the Mac version but on Humble it's only for Windows. Maybe they haven't updated their pages.
 
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I forget what he said for the RT test. I got the impression he was surprised it did so well, except for the path tracing part. The screen space reflections setting is ignored when you have RT turned on (best I can tell).

I still agreed that the presets should be the same on all platforms.

The last time they talked about MetalFX was with Resident Evil 8 (I think). No one has compared the latest MetalFX models to DLSS4 Transformer model explicitly.

He's confusing. He shows that RT has bad perfromance but says at around 12:25 that at the screen's native resolution with MetalFX Performance RT has surprisingly good performance without stuttering?
 
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He's confusing. He shows that RT has bad perfromance but says at around 12:25 that at the screen's native resolution with MetalFX Performance RT has surprisingly good performance without stuttering?
Yeah I felt like he pointed out the glitches more than anything, lol, or at least that is what stands out in my memory about the game review.

We really need DF to do an indepth review of the game settings for performance. Most other reviewers just mess with the presets and call it a day.
 
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Website shows Windows & Mac at least for me, just says "Mac" instead of Apple logo.


Well, that doesn't help me at all, as it's only the base game. The Ultimate Edition includes all the DLC, and seems like the only version on the MAS, which is why I'm trying to compare apples to apples on other stores.

Make sense?
 
Well, that doesn't help me at all, as it's only the base game. The Ultimate Edition includes all the DLC, and seems like the only version on the MAS, which is why I'm trying to compare apples to apples on other stores.

Make sense?
Hmm. I guess the "Ultimate Edition" doesn't show it on the Epic store. Although I'd be very surprised if it actually wasn't included. GOG does show it.

 
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