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That's market price and only an inexperienced consumer compares new price with refurb. The originally configured system is already overkill for Minecraft RT relative to M1 so padding it with more expensive 6800XT GPU and RAM is overkill on top of overkill. Real comparison is performance to performance so even handheld $700 ROG Ally is faster at Minecraft RT.


Even better than $4000 M2 Ultra.


Apple products are hard to find with deals on specific system. The only thing I can think of a reduce price is on education discount. You need something to equalize stuff.

And also, did you even watch the vid? The settings is set to the lowest with the render with the ROG Ally. It is on the basic minimum. SSR and SSGI is off. The quality of the rays is on the low side. And even the video is suspiciously low end(it looks like 480p and not 1080p). Thanks for making an apples-to-oranges comparison. While also having a render and sim distance of 8. That's again on the low-end.

At least you are making true of your quote that MR is full of disinformation.

And also, Minecraft shaders doesn't handle M2 Ultra's unique architecture(it's a 2 chip glued together) and I don't expect the shader developer to keep that in mind.
 
The general statements of macs don’t have RT so it sucks at gaming don’t make sense. The switch doesn’t suck at gaming. It’s still my favorite console. And it has worse hardware than any modern Mac.
Agree.

And also michy here is comparing different game settings in Minecraft RT.

Wow, I can play 22fps in Minecraft RT at 480p, render distance 8, quality low, and turning things off. This $700 is an RT monster. /s
 
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I don’t know why ray tracing is the be all end all of gaming. The Switch doesn’t do it. I always turn it off because I prefer higher fps.

That's because Apple hasn't added it but when they do people will surely parrot about it like Wine. And, Switch is boring since games are not much better than mobile.
 
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And also, did you even watch the vid? The settings is set to the lowest with the render with the ROG Ally. It is on the basic minimum. SSR and SSGI is off.

It's the same settings on the M1.
 
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Super Mario RPG remake was just announced. One of the best RPG games out there. Tears of the Kingdom is GOTY candidate.
This does highlight the use case of Apple having/establishing strong first party IP for their hardware. As an aside I am excited about the Super Mario RPG Remake.
 
Man I'm so glad for the Game Porting Toolkit, as it's basically kickstarted Mac vs PC 3, only this time it's about games and I'm all for it. 🍿
How is that different from Crossover though (which we've had for many, many years)? Yes DX12 is beta in Crossover. GPTK isn't really meant for the enduser to play games and the same restrictions apply. Some games work, others don't. An expected performance hit for $300 GPU performance with the Max SoC. It doesn't solve the problem itself which is bringing native games to macOS. That's still up to developers/studios. The more interesting part is the Shader converter that is now supplied by Apple and helps to port games. Again this is nothing new, we've had such tools for years. Now it's supplied by Apple and we'll have to wait and see how well it will be utilised in the future. And don't forget, the next major DX revision will likely completely break GPTK for games relying on it and then a year long waiting period starts all over again. Native Mac games are needed.
And, Switch is boring since games are not much better than mobile.
Hm, curious... what games have you played on the Switch? For me the Switch is all about Nintendo, so in other words Mario and Zelda... and maybe a few rare exceptions. And then it's the only option to play these games (not counting unofficial emulators). I fail to see the point of playing games like Apex on the Switch unless one doesn't have another system to play games on. And yes, when it comes to Nintendo I far prefer the old-style Nintendo games from the 8- and 16-bit days over "modern" versions. I'll take "2D" Mario and Zelda over the recent games any day. And no, 2D doesn't have to be pixelated retro style, it can be "modern 2D" graphics as well. I just don't like walking around all day long in large but somewhat empty worlds only to make little progress when it comes to actual story. But in the end, that's a personal preference.
 
How is that different from Crossover though (which we've had for many, many years)? Yes DX12 is beta in Crossover. GPTK isn't really meant for the enduser to play games and the same restrictions apply. Some games work, others don't. An expected performance hit for $300 GPU performance with the Max SoC. It doesn't solve the problem itself which is bringing native games to macOS. That's still up to developers/studios. The more interesting part is the Shader converter that is now supplied by Apple and helps to port games. Again this is nothing new, we've had such tools for years. Now it's supplied by Apple and we'll have to wait and see how well it will be utilised in the future. And don't forget, the next major DX revision will likely completely break GPTK for games relying on it and then a year long waiting period starts all over again. Native Mac games are needed.

Hm, curious... what games have you played on the Switch? For me the Switch is all about Nintendo, so in other words Mario and Zelda... and maybe a few rare exceptions. And then it's the only option to play these games (not counting unofficial emulators). I fail to see the point of playing games like Apex on the Switch unless one doesn't have another system to play games on. And yes, when it comes to Nintendo I far prefer the old-style Nintendo games from the 8- and 16-bit days over "modern" versions. I'll take "2D" Mario and Zelda over the recent games any day. And no, 2D doesn't have to be pixelated retro style, it can be "modern 2D" graphics as well. I just don't like walking around all day long in large but somewhat empty worlds only to make little progress when it comes to actual story. But in the end, that's a personal preference.
Slightly OT, but I recall you saying Apple was ready (or nearly ready) to announce a partnership of some kind. Were you referring to the Kojima announcement, or something else which didn’t show up at WWDC?
 
How is that different from Crossover though (which we've had for many, many years)?

The Game Porting Toolkit's compatibility layer is free. CrossOver is not. That's the difference

The GPT essentially sherlocks CrossOver as anyone actually serious about gaming on Mac can just use GPT instead, especially since several people are implementing GUIs for it to make it user friendly. CrossOver being paid software was it's biggest problem and why most paid no mind to it, since why should you spend $500 on a lifetime CrossOver license, when the Steam Deck is $500 and plays a lot more games than CrossOver does? Or you could just dualboot Linux so you could use Proton, which is also free.
 
I don’t know why ray tracing is the be all end all of gaming. The Switch doesn’t do it. I always turn it off because I prefer higher fps.

Admittedly, it does look really good (hardware accelerated RT), and Apple is working on it themselves, so it’s going to be pretty frustrating until that first game ships with it.

I wonder how much of a performance drop we’ll see with the Mac, once we have one to play around with? 50% like on PC? Less than that? More than that?
 
Admittedly, it does look really good (hardware accelerated RT), and Apple is working on it themselves, so it’s going to be pretty frustrating until that first game ships with it.

I wonder how much of a performance drop we’ll see with the Mac, once we have one to play around with? 50% like on PC? Less than that? More than that?
That will depend on what RT features are enabled, and how Apple chooses to hardware accelerate RT.
 
Priorities. Apple needs to focus on close to 60fps 1080p rasterization on base models first before thinking about RT.
 
Admittedly, it does look really good (hardware accelerated RT), and Apple is working on it themselves, so it’s going to be pretty frustrating until that first game ships with it.

I wonder how much of a performance drop we’ll see with the Mac, once we have one to play around with? 50% like on PC? Less than that? More than that?

Apple only needs to deliver locked 30-45 fps with ray tracing to make us happy. In RE Village with ray tracing Xbox Series S does 30 fps at 1440p and Series X and PS5 does 45 fps at 4K but of course people won’t be comparing with that but with RTX 4090 and the bare minimum 60 fps despite saying at the same time we should buy consoles and Steam deck instead of gaming on Macs.
 
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Apple only needs to deliver locked 30-45 fps with ray tracing to make us happy. In RE Village with ray tracing Xbox Series S does 30 fps at 1440p and Series X and PS5 does 45 fps at 4K but of course people won’t be comparing with that but with RTX 4090 and the bare minimum 60 fps despite saying at the same time we should buy consoles and Steam deck instead of gaming on Macs.
I wonder if folks would be comparing Apple Silicon to nvidia anything if Apple didn't mention it at all in their keynote for the M1 Ultra.

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Wow why such a big jump in storage requirements?
 
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Wow why such a big jump in storage requirements?

ARMA 3 is almost 10 years old. The game has had a lot of expansions and smaller DLC packs since then, and this isn't even factoring in all the modded and custom content the community has made. So it's no wonder the storage requirements are so huge.
 
Good to see people talking about games for Mac.

I hope this GPT kit works out for Apple and brings more games to Mac, then eventually native games.
At least it is some progress.

It's gonna come down to showing this to developers and convincing them to use it. I'm doing so right now with a lot of indie games I'm into and several of their developers said they'll consider a Mac port with the new toolkit. But it's gonna come down to actually getting people to use it
 
I wonder if folks would be comparing Apple Silicon to nvidia anything if Apple didn't mention it at all in their keynote for the M1 Ultra.

Yes but at least they compare Ultra with Nvidia, not the base M1 as others do around here.
 
Yes but at least they compare Ultra with Nvidia, not the base M1 as others do around here.
So maybe Apple should have done equivalents for the whole product stack?

I also think the comparisons go both ways. Folks here are quick to talk about how much power a 4090 needs compared to Apple Silicon.
 
I also think the comparisons go both ways. Folks here are quick to talk about how much power a 4090 needs compared to Apple Silicon.

Why wouldn't that be justified when it's a fact? Unfair comparison is when people compare an Xbox with 12 TFLOPS 200W GPU with a MBA with 2.6 TFLOPS 10W M1 and complain about the graphics, frame rate and lack of ray tracing.
 
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