Major gaming news at WWDC: Metal and New games

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Another problem native games don't have.

Uhh...yes they do lmao. Have you never played a multiplayer game on Windows? EasyAntiCheat has had numerous issues with games not launching due to an error in the anticheat. Riot Vanguard has issues launching sometimes requiring you to turn on TPM 2.0 for it to even launch or just reinstalling everything.

Hell I can count the numerous problems I've had with Grand Theft Auto Online alone from the game not logging in to freezing midway from transitioning out of a heist, to it just simply not launching, and this is on Windows, a native game.

You missed my point completely "bro". It's the continuing pattern with every new update to Crossover and Proton. It's obvious you don't have much experience of Crossover at least.

Again: just roll the update back if it breaks anything. It is not hard. You can select what version of Proton to use from a dropdown menu including community created versions like GloriousEggroll's Proton edits. Whisky on macOS lets you configure your bottle with a different version of GPTK too.

 

[salamanderjuice]

To think it will be that easy to play games on Mac with a compatibility layer is just a dream. The proof is Proton and Crossover themselves. To imply that everything simply works and the experience will be even greater than native ports is simply not true. As a BetterTester for Crossover I know it’s a cat-and-mouse game. New updates fixes broken games but at the same time broke other games, both in Crossover and Proton. So the gamers always lack peace of mind not knowing if the next update will make or break things. Not to mention the performance penalty that comes with compatibility layers in many cases.

At the same time we have many old Mac ports which still work fine in Rosetta. There are many games like Shadow of Tomb Raider, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Deus Ex MKD, Bioshock Remastered 1-2, XCOM 2, Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor, Alien Isolation, Mad Max and Metro Exodus that don’t work in Crossover but run perfectly as native ports. Many games with anti-cheat still are not supported in Crossover. OpenGL games like Wolfenstein games don’t work at all because Crossover only supports up to OpenGL 2.1.

There are several examples of Proton updates that have broken working games and many games still don’t work or have bad performance. Many games on www.protondb.com have ”Kaputt” or ”Bronze” status.

[SOLVED] Latest Proton broke many of my games :: Steam for Linux Steam Play

I used to be able to run a number of my games perfectly fine under Proton (BioShock Remastered, for example), but the latest Protons have broken them. The worst part is, I cannot simply go back to using the older releases of proton because the Steam for Linux client is overwriting/deleting the...

steamcommunity.com

Proton 5.13 breaks all non-Linux games · Issue #4278 · ValveSoftware/Proton

As the title says. I have tried to run several games now with the new Proton 5.13 and nothing works. Titles tested so far are Doom Eternal, Torchlight, Stealth Inc. 2, Dear Esther: Landmark Edition...

github.com

Steam Proton Games do not start after last update

After my last update, about one week ago, all my proton steam games do not launch anymore. They were all working fine previously, but now they silent crash. No errors, nothing. I have tried different versions of proton. Different kernels. Verified them. Uninstalled them and reinstalled them...

forum.manjaro.org

Recent Mesa update seems to have broken Steam/Proton games / Multimedia and Games / Arch Linux Forums

bbs.archlinux.org

Ubisoft just broke their games on Linux desktop and Steam Deck

Third-party launchers on Steam are once again being a massive nuisance. First it was EA breaking everything on Linux and Steam Deck and now it's Ubisoft telling everyone to hold their beer.

www.gamingonlinux.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/k2bn3x

Don’t really understand your point about Mac ports ”hardly anyone is gonna buy that is a nightmare to make”. We have seen several examples of developers who don’t think it’s a nightmare and have worked with Apple to bring their games to Mac. We have several upcoming games. If people hardly buy Mac games it’s not because of the native ports. Such people wouldn’t buy the games anyway. Buying games on Steam also gives you both Mac and PC versions so with one purchase you get two games, like Lies of P, NMS, Snowrunner, Stray and more. So getting two native games that works great is always more appealing than one native for PC with bugs and worse performance on Mac through a compatibility layer, if it would work at all.

I guess it all comes down to how much you game. Some like me are happy with fewer native games and some want more games even if they have worse performance and more bugs through a compatibility layer.

You can find examples of native games that break too. And at least on Linux it's really not hard to switch Proton version with Steam or tools like Lutris. If a Proton update breaks a game you just select the last working version. I've had a few titles break because of the EA app because it's a POS but not because of Proton. Usually a Proton update has to come and fix that.

Buy a Steam Deck and I think you'll be amazed. I don't think there's nearly as much effort has been put into the Mac version of Crossover and GPTK than Proton.

Games with kernel level anti-cheat are never going to work on Crossover. And games with kernel level anti-cheat are probably never going to get ported to macOS because I doubt Apple will let game devs use tools that monkey around in the kernel.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

You can get a year of CrossOver for 70% with code BADASS70 today on Cyber Monday only.

I think their number of sales would go up if they'd offer 50% off the lifetime version. Or even better, make it $199 to begin with.

That compatibility layer overnight suddenly turned the Mac into an actual gaming machine, and now with the 1.1 update and it being bundled in CrossOver, performance has skyrocketed.

We've always had that compatibility layer in the past. Yes, Apple updated things for the better. We've always had the porting tools available before GPTK. This is a show-off project, "look your game runs via emulation, so it can't be that difficult to port, now please go and port it".

Honestly, the future of Mac Gaming looks to be compatibility layers not native ports.

As I said, we've used that in the past, before GPTK. It's not the ultimate solution, the Mac needs native versions of games. I do however fully agree that many people will use tools such as GPTK, Crossover, etc. to make games run on Macs. However, not every game runs and even those that run, not every game runs flawlessly. Plus the performance hit it takes vs. a native Windows version.

I doubt any studio would go as far and officially ship a game with such technology. The OS/drivers being out of their control is bad enough, adding another layer of complexity not up to the developers is opening another can of worms.
GPTK is a solution for enthusiasts and those willing to accept that some games just don't work.

However, Codeweaver is also offering porting services with PortJump and support for porting with ExecMode now. So they sort of offer everything to everyone that Apple only did for selected show-off projects in the past. Apple can be really lucky they don't have to bother with all those external developers from game studios if someone else is around doing it for them and in return Apple only has to deal with Codeweaver... now ask the question why Codeweaver is able to bundle GPTK with their products.

 

[Homy]

Uhh...yes they do lmao. Have you never played a multiplayer game on Windows?

I was talking about Mac ports since that was your main point. I haven't once had problems with my Mac games because of some anti-cheat. Native ports work but if we didn't get them and had to only rely on solutions like Crossover many games would break because of anti-cheat or something else.

Again: just roll the update back if it breaks anything. It is not hard. You can select what version of Proton to use from a dropdown menu including community created versions like GloriousEggroll's Proton edits. Whisky on macOS lets you configure your bottle with a different version of GPTK too.

You can also keep older versions of Crossover on your drive and use them and create new bottles if things don't work but again that's my point. You avoid that hassle with native ports.

 

[salamanderjuice]

I was talking about Mac ports since that was your main point. I haven't once had problems with my Mac games because of some anti-cheat. Native ports work but if we didn't get them and had to only rely on solutions like Crossover many games would break because of anti-cheat or something else.



You can also keep older versions of Crossover on your drive and use them and create new bottles if things don't work but again that's my point. You avoid that hassle with native ports.

Can you play that native port of Half-Life 1?

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Can you play that native port of Half-Life 1?

Bro you didn't need to go there. 😂💀👌

I'll do you one better, can you play that native port of Metal Gear Rising Revengance? Yeah, Metal Gear Rising had a Mac port at one point. The port for whatever reason had a horrible DRM that when the company who did the port went belly up the Mac port was now no longer playable, and even then the Mac port was still a farcry to the Windows version

Bought Metal Gear Rising on Mac? You can't play it anymore because of dead DRM

The Mac port of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance no longer works, thanks to a bit of DRM that has been rendered inoperable due to the ravages of time. As excellent as Metal Gear Rising is, the Mac version is perhaps not how you'd want to play it, but the issue raises a larger question about what hap

www.pcgamesn.com

But guess what: you can still play Metal Gear Rising on Mac, through GPTK/Whisky or CrossOver.

 

[Homy]

Bro you didn't need to go there. 😂💀👌

I'll do you one better, can you play that native port of Metal Gear Rising Revengance? Yeah, Metal Gear Rising had a Mac port at one point. The port for whatever reason had a horrible DRM that when the company who did the port went belly up the Mac port was now no longer playable, and even then the Mac port was still a farcry to the Windows version

Bought Metal Gear Rising on Mac? You can't play it anymore because of dead DRM

The Mac port of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance no longer works, thanks to a bit of DRM that has been rendered inoperable due to the ravages of time. As excellent as Metal Gear Rising is, the Mac version is perhaps not how you'd want to play it, but the issue raises a larger question about what hap

www.pcgamesn.com

But guess what: you can still play Metal Gear Rising on Mac, through GPTK/Whisky or CrossOver.

You're missing the point again. Alternative solutions are needed when native ports are missing. I use Crossover myself for some games because of it but I would take a native port every time instead of such solutions. The difference is I use it as an addition to native ports. Your "dream" is to ditch all native ports and only use such solutions which is neither possible nor something many Mac gamers want because of the problems I mentioned before.

Speaking of Half-Life I played and completed the whole series years ago on my Mac and have no interest in playing it again. I actually tested it in Crossover and it works well but the graphics really show their age on a 27" monitor. Was expecting a graphical update but it still looks bad. Strange that people think just because a game isn't on Mac anymore every Mac gamer wants to play it.

I have to thank Apple for sticking to its API and making it easier for developers in other ways than giving up on native ports.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

You're missing the point again. Alternative solutions are needed when native ports are missing. I use Crossover myself for some games because of it but I would take a native port everytime instead of such solutions. The difference is I use it as an addition to native ports. Your "dream" is to ditch all native ports and only use such solutions which is neither possible nor something many Mac gamers want because of the problems I mentioned before.

Okay I can give you another example: Call of Duty Black Ops 3 on Mac. For starters, multiplayer on the Mac version was shut down. The game never had crossplay, you could only play with Mac players, and since so little people played it in 2020 Activision shut down the Mac servers for the game so you could no longer play online multiplayer in it

The second problem with the Mac version: The Mac version did not get mod support, the biggest selling point of Black Ops 3 and the reason it has such longevity. When I loaded up custom zombies maps on the Mac version, the game crashed. Not even from loading the map but from simply having the option for said custom map visible in the menu. Scroll past Origins and poof! It crashes.

None of this happens on Linux through Proton FYI.

Speaking of Half-Life I played and completed the whole series years ago on my Mac and have no interest in playing it again. I actually tested it in Crossover and it works well but the graphics really show their age on a 27" monitor. Was expecting a graphical update but it still looks bad.

Okay full stop. You did not just say that Half Life "looks bad." Half Life makes up for what it lacks in technical graphics in scale and scope. The game did get HD character models at one point, and everyone absolutely hated them compared to the low poly models, which is why with the anniversary update Valve reverted the models and went back to the originals.

Strange that people think just because a game isn't on Mac anymore every Mac gamer wants to play it.

This thread could've fooled me from past posts two pages ago, or from the announcement that Counter Strike 2's Mac version was cancelled, a news story that made the front page of every Apple news site

I have to thank Apple for sticking to its API and making it easier for developers in other ways than giving up on native ports.

Yes thank you Apple you certainly really helped by sticking to Metal, as evident from the fact Valve dipped from macOS and from all the posts from developers announcing they're pushing the Mac versions of games back significantly or cancelling them outright. What was I thinking, having a compatibility layer that lets me play my favorite games immediately just like on my Steam Deck, what a silly thought.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

What was I thinking, having a compatibility layer that lets me play my favorite games immediately just like on my Steam Deck, what a silly thought.

Curious, have you tried any Battle.net games via Whisky? I was just doing a fresh installation with the latest version and tried to install D4 for the time I'm travelling... what a nightmare. Inresponsive B.net installer, takes ages to launch (4 minutes for B.net, not kidding), the usual hiccups. Might be better to go back to Crossover for this, but it's been ages since I've run B.net via crossover. First trying to finish the D4 installation now.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Curious, have you tried any Battle.net games via Whisky? I was just doing a fresh installation with the latest version and tried to install D4 for the time I'm travelling... what a nightmare. Inresponsive B.net installer, takes ages to launch (4 minutes for B.net, not kidding), the usual hiccups. Might be better to go back to Crossover for this, but it's been ages since I've run B.net via crossover. First trying to finish the D4 installation now.

Wouldn't know because I use exclusively Steam. The only games I have on Bnet are my old copy of Black Ops Cold War (that I couldn't even run on macOS if I wanted to because Ricochet Anti Cheat blocks all non-Windows OS from launching the game) and Hearthstone which is already on Mac. What version of GPTK are you using?

 

[GrumpyCoder]

What version of GPTK are you using?

All latest versions from a fresh install. Had Whisky download the required GPTK. It's really the B.net client that's causing issues, constantly freezes. Loading takes ages, login in works, then freezing for a while again and so on. I think I'll stick to CLI or simply try via Crossover (23.7 installing as I write this) as I did in the past.

I just ordered two more Studios with M2 Ultra last week. With some luck they'll arrive later this week and I'll give Whisky a try again on those.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

All latest versions from a fresh install. Had Whisky download the required GPTK. It's really the B.net client that's causing issues, constantly freezes. Loading takes ages, login in works, then freezing for a while again and so on. I think I'll stick to CLI or simply try via Crossover (23.7 installing as I write this) as I did in the past.

I just ordered two more Studios with M2 Ultra last week. With some luck they'll arrive later this week and I'll give Whisky a try again on those.

Did you try the instructions from Apple Gaming Wiki? Apparently there's a script you gotta run first for Diablo 4. https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Game_Porting_Toolkit

 

[Homy]

Okay I can give you another example: Call of Duty Black Ops 3 on Mac. For starters, multiplayer on the Mac version was shut down. The game never had crossplay, you could only play with Mac players, and since so little people played it in 2020 Activision shut down the Mac servers for the game so you could no longer play online multiplayer in it

The second problem with the Mac version: The Mac version did not get mod support, the biggest selling point of Black Ops 3 and the reason it has such longevity. When I loaded up custom zombies maps on the Mac version, the game crashed. Not even from loading the map but from simply having the option for said custom map visible in the menu. Scroll past Origins and poof! It crashes.

None of this happens on Linux through Proton FYI.



Okay full stop. You did not just say that Half Life "looks bad." Half Life makes up for what it lacks in technical graphics in scale and scope. The game did get HD character models at one point, and everyone absolutely hated them compared to the low poly models, which is why with the anniversary update Valve reverted the models and went back to the originals.



This thread could've fooled me from past posts two pages ago, or from the announcement that Counter Strike 2's Mac version was cancelled, a news story that made the front page of every Apple news site



Yes thank you Apple you certainly really helped by sticking to Metal, as evident from the fact Valve dipped from macOS and from all the posts from developers announcing they're pushing the Mac versions of games back significantly or cancelling them outright. What was I thinking, having a compatibility layer that lets me play my favorite games immediately just like on my Steam Deck, what a silly thought.

I agree that we disagree on many points. Btw that compatibilty layer you’re asking for already exists as Crossover, AGPTK and Whisky along with native ports. There’s nothing stopping people from using those solutions but you’re hoping for the death of native games as a solution and that’s never a good thing.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Did you try the instructions from Apple Gaming Wiki? Apparently there's a script you gotta run first for Diablo 4. https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Game_Porting_Toolkit

No, not that particular one. I followed the instructions on the Whisky wiki, which also sets the Win 10 version to 19042, as the script does: https://github.com/Whisky-App/Whisky/wiki/Game-Support#diablo-iv---battlenet-version

I had it working back when D4 came out with CLI, so these problems are rather new for whatever reason. Anyway, Crossover 23.7 is installed, it comes with a pre-configured bottle for D4 and is currently updating the B.net update agent, which takes a while. Was hoping for a more lightweight solution, but if Crossover does the trick, so be it. I've used it on/off the past couple of years and also beta tested occasionally.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Quick update, same issue with Crossover 23.7. B.net launches, then constantly freezes and nothing happens anymore. Can't even get to install D4. Not the only one with this problem though, been mentioned in support forums and reddit as well (apparently 23.5 worked?). Don't have the time to deal with this right now, so I'll get back to it later this week.

 

[Homy]

Okay I can give you another example: Call of Duty Black Ops 3 on Mac. For starters, multiplayer on the Mac version was shut down. The game never had crossplay, you could only play with Mac players, and since so little people played it in 2020 Activision shut down the Mac servers for the game so you could no longer play online multiplayer in it

The second problem with the Mac version: The Mac version did not get mod support, the biggest selling point of Black Ops 3 and the reason it has such longevity. When I loaded up custom zombies maps on the Mac version, the game crashed. Not even from loading the map but from simply having the option for said custom map visible in the menu. Scroll past Origins and poof! It crashes.

None of this happens on Linux through Proton FYI.

Comparing Apples and Penguins? The game working on Linux and Proton is irrelevant to Mac. The question is how it works in Crossover or GPTK. The native port still works through Rosetta despite its shortcomings but good luck if you want to play it in Crossover. It won’t even start for different reasons and I can’t find any reports of it working in GPTK. So another score for native Mac ports.

Okay full stop. You did not just say that Half Life "looks bad." Half Life makes up for what it lacks in technical graphics in scale and scope. The game did get HD character models at one point, and everyone absolutely hated them compared to the low poly models, which is why with the anniversary update Valve reverted the models and went back to the originals.

Wait a minute! Are you trying to dictate what I can like or not? Yes it looks bad because it does. If people like retro games with 25-year-old graphics they can have a blast but for me dated pixelated low-res graphics lost its charm a long time ago, especially when you already have played the game. People complain and make fun of the ”bad quality” of Mac games and Mac HW all the time but when it comes to an updated PC port it’s suddenly charming? So they actually downgraded the game and called it an update? At the same time they made so much noise about the enhanced graphics in Counter-Strike 2 and people liked it? Maybe we’ll see a downgrade there too further in the future since gamers apparently hate updated graphics.

 

[Homy]

Will Battle.net Desktop App run on Mac or Linux? | CodeWeavers

The Battle.net desktop app installs, patches, and launches all Battle.net games from one unified application. You can get access to games like Diablo, and free trials for many other titles. You can also access the Battle.net Shop, as well as news and patch…

www.codeweavers.com

Will Diablo IV run on Mac or Linux? | CodeWeavers

Diablo® IV is the ultimate action RPG experience with endless evil to slaughter, countless abilities to master, nightmarish dungeons, and legendary loot. Embark on the campaign solo or with friends, meeting memorable characters through beautifully dark…

www.codeweavers.com

 

[GrumpyCoder]

27.3 seems to have issues for some.

https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/185b4pk

More can be found via search on Reddit and the support forums. Don’t think it’s Crossover alone, as D4 doesn’t work via Whisky either. Might be the latest GPTK version. Steam version doesn’t work either but at least for that official Codeweaver support confirmed a while ago they’re working on it. Will try forcing Win 11 as suggested on Reddit later this week.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Comparing Apples and Penguins? The game working on Linux and Proton is irrelevant to Mac.

It isn't and here's why: Linux has overtaken macOS in use on Steam, and developers have taken notice of that. With more people playing on Linux than Mac, developers are gonna think "why should I put in the work for a macOS port, when I can just use Proton and have my game ready for Linux where it will be guaranteed to be played more?"

Not to mention CrossOver is paid and Macs cost a lot more than Linux PCs, when for the price of CrossOver Life, you can get a 512gb Steam Deck or a base spec OLED model. (which unlike the M3 Macs, actually comes with 16gb of RAM)

The question is how it works in Crossover or GPTK. The native port still works through Rosetta despite its shortcomings but good luck if you want to play it in Crossover. It won’t even start for different reasons and I can’t find any reports of it working in GPTK. So another score for native Mac ports.

Except no custom zombies maps which defeats the purpose. The people playing Black Ops 3 nowadays are playing it for Zombies, especially custom zombies. If you can't play custom zombies, then it's an inferior port compared to playing the Windows version through a compatibility layer.

Wait a minute! Are you trying to dictate what I can like or not?

When it's a game as important as Half Life yes. Half Life changed the gaming landscape by introducing scope, immersion, and an unbroken first person narrative, something unheard of back in 1998 that completely changed how we rethink video games. We owe a lot to Half Life.

Yes it looks bad because it does. If people like retro games with 25-year-old graphics they can have a blast but for me dated pixelated low-res graphics lost its charm a long time ago, especially when you already have played the game.

Minecraft is the biggest game of all time and it's all blocky with low rez pixelated items.

Undertale has done numbers despite having a retro pixelated art style

One of the biggest releases of the year Dave the Diver uses a pixelated sprite art style

And don't even get me started on anything made by New Blood Interactive.

People complain and make fun of the ”bad quality” of Mac games and Mac HW all the time but when it comes to an updated PC port it’s suddenly charming? So they actually downgraded the game and called it an update?

It's an Anniversary update meant to invoke nostalgia and look back at the long history of Half Life, one of the most important games ever made as it changed the gaming landscape as we know it and was Valve's big break to become the juggernaut they are now. They even made a documentary that goes along with the update in which Gabe Newell even said "realism is not always fun."

Gabe Newell says games don't need to be realistic: "I have never thought to myself that realism is fun"

"In the real world, I have to write up lists of stuff I have to go to the grocery store to buy"

www.gamesradar.com

But hey, if you hate the visuals there is a version of Half Life for people like you: It's called Black Mesa. It's a fanmade remake on the Source engine with new mechanics and visuals

Black Mesa on Steam

Relive Half-Life.

store.steampowered.com

At the same time they made so much noise about the enhanced graphics in Counter-Strike 2 and people liked it?

They liked it because the enhanced graphics served a gameplay purpose. Counter Strike 2 added dynamic smoke grenades where the smoke actually moves on it's own and is shaped by bullets and grenades. You can also see your own player model now so you know if any part of you is sticking out of cover.

But at the same time many don't like the enhanced graphics because now their old PC struggles to run the game, or they're now getting lower framerate which in a game like CS you need your framerate as high as possible so your inputs are as fast as possible.

Maybe we’ll see a downgrade there too further in the future since gamers apparently hate updated graphics.

Realistic graphics =/= Better visuals. I have this same argument with PlayStation fanboys. Realistic graphics will age. Art styles will not. Low poly is now an art style, an effective one as low poly horror games have become popular with titles like Iron Lung (which is getting a movie adaptation) or Faith the Unholy Trinity

 

[Homy]

It isn't and here's why: Linux has overtaken macOS in use on Steam, and developers have taken notice of that. With more people playing on Linux than Mac, developers are gonna think "why should I put in the work for a macOS port, when I can just use Proton and have my game ready for Linux where it will be guaranteed to be played more?"

Not to mention CrossOver is paid and Macs cost a lot more than Linux PCs, when for the price of CrossOver Life, you can get a 512gb Steam Deck or a base spec OLED model. (which unlike the M3 Macs, actually comes with 16gb of RAM)

Still is. Your main point is that a compatibility layer is better for Mac gaming than native ports because such a solution works better and is easier to maintain, support and use for gamers and devs. I and others have mentioned several reason to why that’s not the case when it comes to Mac and why it should exist only as an alternative but not a complete solution. You took CoD Black Ops 3 as an example and I said let’s look at how it works with the compatibility layers available on Mac. We now know that it doesn’t work at all. Therefore it’s completely irrelevant if it works perfectly with Proton since we’re talking about Mac. So the example you took has a native Mac port that works no matter how but doesn’t work at all with compatibility layers on Mac.

I have shared my thoughts on Steam survey before. There is no evidence whatsoever that more people play on Linux than on Mac globally. Even on Steam Linux was only 0,2% larger than macOS in the latest survey. So no, developers are not suddenly dropping Mac support and forgetting millions of Mac gamers only on Steam (not to mention globally and on other marketplaces) because of that 0,2%. What you’re saying isn’t even logical. Proton isn’t available on Mac so by dropping Mac support they would lose the whole Mac market. That’s over 20% of the total desktop market share worldwide compared to Linux which not even has 3%. Highly unlikely that devs think ”why should I put in the work for 20% of the desktop market when I can just use Proton for 2.92% of the desktop market. Even the popular Steam Deck using Arch Linux has at most 0.1% share in the latest Steam survey.

Crossover being a paid product and Macs costing lot more than PCs and Steam deck is another irrelevant discussion here when we’re talking about native ports vs compatibility layers on Mac. This reminds me of someone mentioning ”grasping at straws” earlier.

Except no custom zombies maps which defeats the purpose. The people playing Black Ops 3 nowadays are playing it for Zombies, especially custom zombies. If you can't play custom zombies, then it's an inferior port compared to playing the Windows version through a compatibility layer.

You can’t even play the windows version through a compatibility layer on Mac. That’s the whole point. Why is it hard to understand?

When it's a game as important as Half Life yes. Half Life changed the gaming landscape by introducing scope, immersion, and an unbroken first person narrative, something unheard of back in 1998 that completely changed how we rethink video games. We owe a lot to Half Life.

Minecraft is the biggest game of all time and it's all blocky with low rez pixelated items.

Undertale has done numbers despite having a retro pixelated art style

One of the biggest releases of the year Dave the Diver uses a pixelated sprite art style

And don't even get me started on anything made by New Blood Interactive.

It's an Anniversary update meant to invoke nostalgia and look back at the long history of Half Life, one of the most important games ever made as it changed the gaming landscape as we know it and was Valve's big break to become the juggernaut they are now. They even made a documentary that goes along with the update in which Gabe Newell even said "realism is not always fun."

Gabe Newell says games don't need to be realistic: "I have never thought to myself that realism is fun"

"In the real world, I have to write up lists of stuff I have to go to the grocery store to buy"

www.gamesradar.com

But hey, if you hate the visuals there is a version of Half Life for people like you: It's called Black Mesa. It's a fanmade remake on the Source engine with new mechanics and visuals

Black Mesa on Steam

Relive Half-Life.

store.steampowered.com

Please spare me the history lesson. We owe a lot to HL? So we’re bound to love whatever Valve throws at us? You’re taking this too seriously. No, you still don’t dictate what others can like or not. Don’t you even realize how ridiculous that sounds, telling people how to think about their choice of games? As I said before people can buy, play and love whatever they want but don’t try to convince me do the same.

Yes, Black Mesa apparently works well in Crossover but I rarely play a game twice. I have a large backlog of Mac games and a few PC games via Crossover and with all the new games released or coming there is no time.

Btw here are some other new native ports that don’t work in a compatibility layer like Crossover: Resident Evil Village, Resident Evil 4 Remake, Death Stranding, No Man’s Sky and Grid Legends. Now imagine not having these native ports and only rely on Crossover.

Finally you seem to forget one very important factor when it comes to the future of Mac gaming and why Apple sticks to its own API Metal. Apple makes most of its revenues from iPhone and App Store. Mac has a small part in that. There’s no compatibility layer as far as I know that works on iPhones or mobile phones. Not even Proton is available on Android. Apple is not going to scrap Metal on Macs and replace it with a compatibility layer like Proton while keeping Metal on iPhone and create lot of trouble and hassle for devs and players with two different solutions at the same time and they're certainly not going to replace Metal on iPhone. So a Proton-like solution on Macs or other Apple HW will remain a far distant dream.

 

[diamond.g]

Looks like Snow Runner is officially out for macOS now.

 

[Chancha]

So the Steam sales was just done.

I ended up getting No Man's Sky since it is hugely 50% off, then took the risk in Stray despite the Steam listing is still showing Windows only.

Passed Death Stranding and RE4, these are almost certainly App Store exclusive for the Apple Silicon version, also the Steam purchase of course won't give you the iPad / iPhone version.

The other Apple Silicon game I bought is Dave the Diver, seems to be getting really good reviews, though it was only discounted a bit.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Please spare me the history lesson. We owe a lot to HL? So we’re bound to love whatever Valve throws at us? You’re taking this too seriously. No, you still don’t dictate what others can like or not. Don’t you even realize how ridiculous that sounds, telling people how to think about their choice of games?

To deny the cultural impact of certain games and how it changed the industry is willfully ignorant of gaming at large, and makes me question if you're actually serious about gaming or just want games on macOS as a "got ya" to the PC Master Race crowd who probably bullied you for being a Mac user.

Would be like denying the impact certain movies have made to the industry, like denying the impact the original Star Wars trilogy made or John Carpenter's Halloween.

Btw here are some other new native ports that don’t work in a compatibility layer like Crossover: Resident Evil Village, Resident Evil 4 Remake, Death Stranding, No Man’s Sky and Grid Legends. Now imagine not having these native ports and only rely on Crossover.

Now compare that to the countless other games that don't have native ports and work fine through Crossover and GPTK.

Native port are great, but so are compatibility layers. You can have both.

Finally you seem to forget one very important factor when it comes to the future of Mac gaming and why Apple sticks to its own API Metal. Apple makes most of its revenues from iPhone and App Store.

They make most of their revenue from hardware sales and always have. The App Store and Services revenue is only one piece of the pie but the majority of their revenue has always been selling hardware, especially on the iPhone front.

Mac has a small part in that. There’s no compatibility layer as far as I know that works on iPhones or mobile phones. Not even Proton is available on Android.

Actually there are compatibility layers on Android. It's called the Dynamic App Framework, to insure your app works on newer versions of Android and different flavors by sandboxing the app into an instance most optimal

Compatibility framework tools | Platform | Android Developers

Use the compatibility framework to help isolate changes while testing and debugging your apps.

developer.android.com

And this isn't factoring in emulators

Apple is not going to scrap Metal on Macs and replace it with a compatibility layer like Proton while keeping Metal on iPhone and create lot of trouble and hassle for devs and players with two different solutions at the same time and they're certainly not going to replace Metal on iPhone. So a Proton-like solution on Macs or other Apple HW will remain a far distant dream.

Just gonna screenshot this as a just in case this post ages like milk. You should learn by now to never say never when it comes to Apple. Three years ago we thought they'd never bring back legacy ports to the Macbooks, or bring back the Magsafe connector, and yet they did.

 

[JordanNZ]

It isn't and here's why: Linux has overtaken macOS in use on Steam, and developers have taken notice of that. With more people playing on Linux than Mac, developers are gonna think "why should I put in the work for a macOS port, when I can just use Proton and have my game ready for Linux where it will be guaranteed to be played more?"

Developers don’t care about Linux. At all.

Proton killed Native games being developed for Linux. Dead.

And I’m not following your train of thought on the steam survey. Most of the ‘Linux’ users are just the steam deck. And when it comes to Mac’s, anyone running crossover/Whiskey will be showing up as a windows user. Most of the new ‘big games’ coming to macOS aren’t even going to be on steam.

 

[Nugat Trailers]

It should be noted that Proton was being developed for Mac back in 2018, but was dropped, from what I can find, 'due to a lack of interest from the Mac community'.