MAJOR MELTDOWN - Installed Catalina and can no longer reboot - memory issues

[volumegarage]

I sure hope someone has experienced a problem like this and can assists.

Earlier this week, I downloaded Catalina on to my new iMac. The os worked ok for a couple of days, but my hard drive was full. I think I downloaded the new XCode and haven't been able to boot the machine since. I've worked for days now trying all of these options and still cannot get my primary work machine back up and running.

1. Reset PRAM
2. Unplugged Computer - Restarted
3. Command S into Safe Mode
- Nothing worked. Computer still will not boot. When I try to boot, Apple icon shows, progress bar and then gets to a black screen that read..."Your computer restarted because of a problem, press a key or wait a few seconds to continuing starting up."
- Then it reboots, shows Apple Icon, progress bar and back to same screen with same prompt and repeats over and over again.

4. /sbin/fsck -fy
- Tried this terminal command. Still cannot boot - repeats phrase above.

5. Started up Command R to boot up in recovery mode and here's where things start to get strange.
- First of all - I see two Internal Discs and one Disc Image
Internal
- Macintosh HD
- Macintosh HD - Data
Disc Image
- macOS Base System

When I examine the "Data" disc - it shows a TB capacity with this breakdown
991 GB - Used
15.23GB - Other Volumes
21.45GB - Free

I tried to reinstall the MacOS - Error says - I do not have enough memory. Delete files and try again. OK.

6. From the Disc Utility I logged into Terminal. Both drives above are mounted. A "Bash" window comes up #bash-3.2#
- That's odd, I usually see my user name
- Nevertheless, I'm able to navigate around
- I found my Volumes folder and worked my way into the Data internal folder from above "Macintosh HD - Data"
- I deleted some files on the desktop using rm
- Confirmed they disappeared from the ls
- However, when I go back to disc utility, memory stays the same
- When I reboot, same error as 3 above.

7. Connected the problem computer with Laptop and booted in Target mode
- I can see the computer hard drive, but each folder has a red negative sign and I cannot change permissions or get into any folder
- No commands work using this method. Unable to remove - unable to move files

8. Bootup from USB disc with Mojave
- Thimking that I might go back to Mojave, I had a USB drive and booted from this drive
- Comouter booted up from USB< but I cannot see disc images on desktop
- I was able to see Macintosh HD - Data from Finder window though
- OK I removed over 150 gbs and transfered photos and some files to backup drive and deleted the files with the trash
- I could not see all of the files on my original Desktop though
- The Desktop that I did see had lots of files so I thought just deleting those would help
- Moved files to trash - pressed delete
- Reboot and still see Error from 3
- When I boot up in Disk Utility - file sizes read the same as #5 - nothing changed

9. Time Machine
- I'm stupid. I didn't have a formal Time Machine on the back end
- When I do click Time Machine in the Disc Utility I do see a local snapshot from June 4th, 2019 on the "Macintosh HD"
- Not sure what that is though
- I'm afraid if I restore that - I'll erase critical files that were on this computer

FINALLY
- I can see all my files in Terminal - that's all
- I am unable to move them across anywhere because of pemissions
- I delete files in Terminal and Finder options described above, but I'm not seeing the memory update with lower values or able to boot still after four days
- I'm not familiar with the APFS Volume Formatting and not sure what is happening
- I tried a PURGE command in terminal - didn't work
- I'm not sure that Time Machine backup is legit

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS?
- I've bought run out of choices.
- I'd just like to boot up again and get back to work

Thanks in advance for reading this verbose description. Time is important and I appreciate yours....

david

 

[Lowe Lilliehorn]

Did you try using Internet Recovery too?
I read that you only used the "recovery" partition.
Maybe, try to give Internet Recovery a chance, and downgrade to the OS (X) that came along with your mac?

 

[haralds]

Given the amount of time you have spent and the fact, it's a work machine I would certainly spent the 50 bucks on a simple USB disk and install on that. If your machine has a T2, remember to allow external device booting in the startup utility.
ALWAYS have 20% disk space free on the system disk. macOS and Windows do not run out of space gracefully.
NEVER have a beta OS as the only boot on a system. APFS Container Volumes makes this very easy.
DON'T JUMP into a pond unless you know its depth!

 

[Fishrrman]

You said this is a "new" iMac?
HOW new?
Is it still under Apple warranty?

If so, I suggest you carry it into a brick-n-mortar Apple Store and get help at the genius bar...

 

[volumegarage]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've got externals and a boot USB with Mojave. I tried to boot up using that and having my wifi setup. Is that what you refer to as Internet Recovery?

When it boots with this USB - I get a new Mojave desktop. As mentioned there are no disc images visually. I can see the Internal Drives in the finder window from the menu.

When I select the Macintosh HD - Data folder, my directories are strange
Macintosh HD - Data/Users/davidcate/ - there is no Desktop showing, however this is where I did delete over 200gb because I could see the Downloads folder. I deleted those via trash, but as mentioned it appeared to not remove it. Disk Utility still says only 21gb available.

haralds - I have sinned on multiple fronts hear. Always leaning into new ventures before - my lick ran out in the pond. It was deep and filled with biohzards.

fisherman - the box is more than a year old and I live in rural TN - nearest apply store is 200 miles sadly.

 

[bwcw]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've got externals and a boot USB with Mojave. I tried to boot up using that and having my wifi setup. Is that what you refer to as Internet Recovery?

When it boots with this USB - I get a new Mojave desktop. As mentioned there are no disc images visually. I can see the Internal Drives in the finder window from the menu.

When I select the Macintosh HD - Data folder, my directories are strange
Macintosh HD - Data/Users/davidcate/ - there is no Desktop showing, however this is where I did delete over 200gb because I could see the Downloads folder. I deleted those via trash, but as mentioned it appeared to not remove it. Disk Utility still says only 21gb available.

haralds - I have sinned on multiple fronts hear. Always leaning into new ventures before - my lick ran out in the pond. It was deep and filled with biohzards.

fisherman - the box is more than a year old and I live in rural TN - nearest apply store is 200 miles sadly.

Hold the Command-Option-R combination when restarting the Mac to get into internet recovery mode.

 

[haralds]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've got externals and a boot USB with Mojave. I tried to boot up using that and having my wifi setup. Is that what you refer to as Internet Recovery?

When it boots with this USB - I get a new Mojave desktop. As mentioned there are no disc images visually. I can see the Internal Drives in the finder window from the menu.

When I select the Macintosh HD - Data folder, my directories are strange
Macintosh HD - Data/Users/davidcate/ - there is no Desktop showing, however this is where I did delete over 200gb because I could see the Downloads folder. I deleted those via trash, but as mentioned it appeared to not remove it. Disk Utility still says only 21gb available.

haralds - I have sinned on multiple fronts hear. Always leaning into new ventures before - my lick ran out in the pond. It was deep and filled with biohzards.

fisherman - the box is more than a year old and I live in rural TN - nearest apply store is 200 miles sadly.

WARNING: see my note about the T2 chip below!!!!

Catalina looks weird, because the system disk is two visible containers: one read-only for the system and the other <disk-name> - data with users apps, library, etc. There are other containers not visible.
One way to approach it would be to:
- Boot externally
- Run Disk Utility and delete the Volume that is not <disk-name> - Data.
- Create a new Volume in the same Container
- Install Mojave to that Volume
- Boot. The data disk will show.
- Copy your personal data from the Users folder
- Apps and library items from device/. foldername
I suspect desktop and documents are in Mobile documents, but they should resync from iCloud anyway

After you have copied off anything you want, you can use Disk Utility to delete the Data disk. All free space should be available to your Mojave disk.

I you do not care anything about what is on your internal disk, you wipe and repartition the whole thing.

HOWEVER, if you have a machine with T2 chip, caveat emptor. Talk to AppleCare to walk you through redoing it. The internal partitions contain the tokens to access the disk. If you delete them, you may lose access to your computer.

Edits: corrected Container to Volume based on dsmef response.

 

[mrmister]

You installed a pre-beta OS on a computer with no backup that has mission critical files on it.

I'm just writing it down so that you can read it and understand.

 

[dsemf]

WARNING: see my note about the T2 chip below!!!!

Catalina looks weird, because the system disk is two visible containers: one read-only for the system and the other <disk-name> - data with users apps, library, etc. There are other containers not visible.
One way to approach it would be to:
- Boot externally
- Run Disk Utility and delete the Container that is not <disk-name> - Data.
- Create a new container
- Install Mojave to that container
- Boot. The data disk will show.
- Copy your personal data from the Users folder
- Apps and library items from device/. foldername
I suspect desktop and documents are in Mobile documents, but they should resync from iCloud anyway

After you have copied off anything you want, you can use Disk Utility to delete the Data disk. All free space should be available to your Mojave disk.

I you do not care anything about what is on your internal disk, you wipe and repartition the whole thing.

HOWEVER, if you have a machine with T2 chip, caveat emptor. Talk to AppleCare to walk you through redoing it. The internal partitions contain the tokens to access the disk. If you delete them, you may lose access to your computer.

Note: Where haralds specifies container it should be volume. An APFS container contains volumes. The container occupies a disk partition. The space within the container is shared by all of its volumes. Here is the diskutil list output from Mojave.

/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *500.3 GB   disk0
   1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk0s1
   2:                 Apple_APFS Container disk1         500.1 GB   disk0s2

/dev/disk1 (synthesized):
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      APFS Container Scheme -                      +500.1 GB   disk1
                                 Physical Store disk0s2
   1:                APFS Volume Macintosh HD            245.9 GB   disk1s1
   2:                APFS Volume Preboot                 48.5 MB    disk1s2
   3:                APFS Volume Recovery                509.7 MB   disk1s3
   4:                APFS Volume VM                      3.2 GB     disk1s4

When the public beta is available, I will be creating a Catalina volume in the same container and do a clean install of Catalina. I will end up with Catalina and Catalina - Data volumes.

DS

 

[RumorConsumer]

Have you tried Batchmod on your copied permissions goofed files? https://www.lagentesoft.com/batchmod/

Has saved my ass more often than almost any other tool. If it works, copy everything and blow it away.

 

[volumegarage]

bwcw - I used the Internet Recovery as you suggested. When it boots, it's basically the same issues with Disk Utility - Tried to reinstall Mojave - error reads "You can't save the file "index.sproduct" because the volume "Macintosh HD- Data" is out of space. Remove some fo;es from the Volume and try again.

As discussed earlier, I removed many files via terminal and the bootup disc - Over 200gb, but they do not show in available memory. My available memory still says 21.76 gb only and doesn't change. Arghhh!
---
heralds - thanks for that suggestion. I wondered what the 2 containers were for.
- You say "
Run Disk Utility and delete the Container that is not <disk-name> - Data.
- Create a new container"

- All of my data files seem to be appropriately on the "Macintosh HD - Data" container.

Are there any risks associated with removing the container "Macintosh HD?

You installed a pre-beta OS on a computer with no backup that has mission critical files on it.

I'm just writing it down so that you can read it and understand.

- Not proud. Foolish anxiety driven mistake. Yes.

Have you tried Batchmod on your copied permissions goofed files? https://www.lagentesoft.com/batchmod/

Has saved my ass more often than almost any other tool. If it works, copy everything and blow it away.

- Would love to try that, but not sure how to get it on the iMac when I can't - thoughts?

ds

Note: Where haralds specifies container it should be volume. An APFS container contains volumes. The container occupies a disk partition. The space within the container is shared by all of its volumes. Here is the diskutil list output from Mojave.

/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *500.3 GB   disk0
   1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk0s1
   2:                 Apple_APFS Container disk1         500.1 GB   disk0s2

/dev/disk1 (synthesized):
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      APFS Container Scheme -                      +500.1 GB   disk1
                                 Physical Store disk0s2
   1:                APFS Volume Macintosh HD            245.9 GB   disk1s1
   2:                APFS Volume Preboot                 48.5 MB    disk1s2
   3:                APFS Volume Recovery                509.7 MB   disk1s3
   4:                APFS Volume VM                      3.2 GB     disk1s4

When the public beta is available, I will be creating a Catalina volume in the same container and do a clean install of Catalina. I will end up with Catalina and Catalina - Data volumes.

DS

- Thanks for helping me understand this foundation. Still trying work through the error.

Do you think it would be safe to delete the Volume titled "Macintosh HD" and then reinstall Mojave as described.

 

[volumegarage]

The biggest problem I'm finding is that I can't seem to delete any files.

I've tried Disc Recovery
Terminal
Boot up from Internet Recovery and Separate BootDrive

Even when I drag items to trash, delete and purge - I'm not clearing any data or room to boot or reinstall...
[doublepost=1560046153][/doublepost]bwcw - I used the Internet Recovery as you suggested. When it boots, it's basically the same issues with Disk Utility - Tried to reinstall Mojave - error reads "You can't save the file "index.sproduct" because the volume "Macintosh HD- Data" is out of space. Remove some fo;es from the Volume and try again.

As discussed earlier, I removed many files via terminal and the bootup disc - Over 200gb, but they do not show in available memory. My available memory still says 21.76 gb only and doesn't change. Arghhh!
---
heralds - thanks for that suggestion. I wondered what the 2 containers were for.
- You say "
Run Disk Utility and delete the Container that is not <disk-name> - Data.
- Create a new container"

- All of my data files seem to be appropriately on the "Macintosh HD - Data" container.

Are there any risks associated with removing the container "Macintosh HD?

RumorConsumer -
- Would love to try that, but not sure how to get it on the iMac when I can't - thoughts?

dsemf -
- Thanks for helping me understand this foundation. Still trying work through the error.

Do you think it would be safe to delete the Volume titled "Macintosh HD" and then reinstall Mojave as described.

 

[goMac]

The way Catalina partitions you may have to erase your disk and start from scratch. I don’t think there is a way to go back to Mojave once you’ve installed Catalina with the disk changes it makes.

Good reason to avoid Catalina beta, or install it in a APFS container.

 

[volumegarage]

I wouldn't mind erasing if I could get a better backup. I can see files on Hard Drive and have moved many to a separate disc - I just can't get anything from the Desktop Directory. I've been able to see Downloads, Library and Pictures / Photos and Video, but nothing at Desktop level with this issue.

 

[RumorConsumer]

I wouldn't mind erasing if I could get a better backup. I can see files on Hard Drive and have moved many to a separate disc - I just can't get anything from the Desktop Directory. I've been able to see Downloads, Library and Pictures / Photos and Video, but nothing at Desktop level with this issue.

Do you have a hard drive you can install an OS onto?

What if you installed Catalina onto another drive? Maybe a fresh copy would work better to see your existing file system.

 

[0403979]

The biggest problem I'm finding is that I can't seem to delete any files.

I've tried Disc Recovery
Terminal
Boot up from Internet Recovery and Separate BootDrive

Even when I drag items to trash, delete and purge - I'm not clearing any data or room to boot or reinstall...
[doublepost=1560046153][/doublepost]bwcw - I used the Internet Recovery as you suggested. When it boots, it's basically the same issues with Disk Utility - Tried to reinstall Mojave - error reads "You can't save the file "index.sproduct" because the volume "Macintosh HD- Data" is out of space. Remove some fo;es from the Volume and try again.

As discussed earlier, I removed many files via terminal and the bootup disc - Over 200gb, but they do not show in available memory. My available memory still says 21.76 gb only and doesn't change. Arghhh!
---
heralds - thanks for that suggestion. I wondered what the 2 containers were for.
- You say "
Run Disk Utility and delete the Container that is not <disk-name> - Data.
- Create a new container"

- All of my data files seem to be appropriately on the "Macintosh HD - Data" container.

Are there any risks associated with removing the container "Macintosh HD?

RumorConsumer -
- Would love to try that, but not sure how to get it on the iMac when I can't - thoughts?

dsemf -
- Thanks for helping me understand this foundation. Still trying work through the error.

Do you think it would be safe to delete the Volume titled "Macintosh HD" and then reinstall Mojave as described.

I think a route like this is your best bet.

• Get an external drive
• Boot into internet recovery
• Copy the files from your internal *- Data volume
• Erase your internal drive
• Reinstall Mojave
• Download Catalina
• Install Catalina
• Copy your files back to the *- Data volume from your external drive

Ps: Note to self: Don't use beta software as your only boot device. Maybe add a step in there: "Add new volume in container for Catalina and keep Mojave as a backup"

 

[volumegarage]

Hi Julian,

Thanks for the suggestion. When I boot into Internet Recovery mode, it takes me to Disc Utility.

How do I copy files from my internal drive • Data volume?

Can't seem to determine that...

 

[RumorConsumer]

Hi Julian,

Thanks for the suggestion. When I boot into Internet Recovery mode, it takes me to Disc Utility.

How do I copy files from my internal drive • Data volume?

Can't seem to determine that...

You can usually make a disc image from a container. Does that work? Didn’t you say you had a laptop too? Did you try my batchmod suggestion?

 

[volumegarage]

RumorConsumer,

When I startup with Internet Recovery and Go to Disk Utility and try to create an disk image as you suggest;

I see my volume (Macintosh HD - Data) - I dive into the Users folder and into my name, but there is no Desktop showing and that's where the files are that I need to copy.

With regard to your batchmod suggestion...

I'm not certain how that will work. What do you suggest there? Thanks everyone to your time to try and help.
[doublepost=1560092028][/doublepost]I tried the BatchMod from the Laptop - Nothing seems to happen.

I'm still unable to see the Desktop in the Target Disc Mode. I only see...
Applications
Creative Cloud Files
Downloads
iCloud Archive
Movies
Music
Pictures
Public

Desktop is nowhere to be found.

However, when I use Terminal on the Laptop and work my way to the same path:
Volumes/Macintosh HD - Data/Users/davidcate
- Desktop shows up using that interface

 

[bcollett]

I also had a problem with memory not releasing for Catalina. What fixed it for me was deleting local time machine snapshots.

You can see if any local time machine snapshots exist by navigating to the drive's root folder in terminal and running "tmutil listlocalsnapshots /System/Volumes/Data"

It should return a list of snapshots and dates. Ex/ com.apple.TimeMachine.2018-03-01-002010

To delete a snapshot enter "sudo tmutil deletelocalsnapshots 2018-03-01-002010" copy the numbers from the results returned previously.

If it deletes properly, you’ll see 'Delete local snapshot '2018-03-01-002010' in the Terminal as the response.

After I deleted all of the snapshots on my system my available storage returned to normal.

 

[haralds]

BTW, here is an important Release note item:

• On Macs with the Apple T2 Security Chip, if you’ve used Startup Security Utility to lower Secure Boot to Medium Security or No Security, you’re currently unable to modify Secure Boot settings after upgrading to macOS 10.15. (51043128)
  
  Workaround: Set Secure Boot to Full Security before upgrading to macOS 10.15. Alternatively, disabling and reenabling FileVault might resolve the issue.
  

 

[FNH15]

Here's what I'd do:

You said you have a bootable copy of 10.14 on an external, right? Go to Finder in 10.14, use the Go command (command-shift-G) and navigate to your desktop directory path (Volumes/Macintosh HD - Data/Users/davidcate). Copy off the files you need, and then wipe the whole disk and reinstall 10.14.

 

[pythagorasuk]

Cant you login to iCloud and grab the desktop files from there?

 

[0403979]

Hi Julian,

Thanks for the suggestion. When I boot into Internet Recovery mode, it takes me to Disc Utility.

How do I copy files from my internal drive • Data volume?

Can't seem to determine that...

Are you familiar with the terminal?

 

[StarShot]

Hold the Command-Option-R combination when restarting the Mac to get into internet recovery mode.

Better yet, STAY away from Apple's Beta OS. Three or four previous editions, I tried the latest Beta and it blew up my computer. After many wasted hours, I was able to restore the previous edition. Had the same problem once with an iOS Beta.

I guess we allow owe a big thank you for those who venture into shark waters with these Betas in that it helps to create a stable version of the product. Just not for me anymore unless Apple will will pay me say $1000 and guarantee they'll put my computer back the way it was before their Beta "cooked" my device(s).