Many Warner Bros Movies Have Reverted to HD Instead of 4K on iTunes and in User Movie Libraries [Update]

[ActionableMango]

Your 1080p blurays most likely a higher video and audio bitrate than the 4k that itunes puts out.

For video I'm going to have to disagree with the implication that 1080p BD is better than iTunes 4K because of higher bitrate. Comparing the bitrate of two different video codecs is outright misleading. Higher bitrates in older formats actually just mean inefficiency. Examples:

• MPEG-2 needs 60% more bitrate to equal picture quality of AVC
• HEVC only needs 50-70% of the bitrate of AVC and has better PQ at that lower rate

There are also PQ advancements in the newer codes, such as 10-bit color, HDR10, and Dolby Vision, so it's not just advancements in bitrate efficiency.

Notably, there are several comparisons of 4K iTunes titles against 4K UHD discs, and there is precious little difference. (And note, the disc is an UHD disc, not even a 1080P disc.) If we are at the point where we have to closely look at single captured frames for a few seconds or more in order to determine the very tiny differences, then I'd say we are close enough.

I do agree with you on audio. Audio on streaming is definitely worse than discs. This is noticeable even with my low-end surround setup ($300 for six speakers, or $50 per speaker average).

But even so, streaming audio is improving fast. For example ATMOS is coming to Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, and VUDU.

 

[CWallace]

Yeah, this really steams me. Disney refuses to offer any 4K versions of their movies in iTunes Movie Store. Which is unfortunate, because I would love to stream the Marvel movies in 4K.

You can stream Disney 4K content in 4K on the AppleTV if you buy the film from Vudu, which does charge the extra $5 ($25 vs. $20).

But I agree with you in principle and as such I've bought the physical 4K Blu-rays of Disney/Marvel/Pixar films to get the "4K experience" and then used the free digital copy for the 1080p streaming version when on the road or using an iOS device.

 

[lkrupp]

And THIS is why you should still buy movies on disc -- no one can downgrade your 4K UHD Blu-ray disc.

But they sure can stop manufacturing the Blu-ray players needed to play that disc. Ask Laser Disc owners about that. Ask the VHS tape owners, and the 8 Track tape players, and the...

 

[BF1M]

Now the movies are not in English lol

 

[Kaibelf]

Well, looks like it was a little glitch on the server side that’s being addressed. This thread has been incredibly entertaining though. Finger pointing. Threats to sue. Format wars. Post apocalyptic technophobia. Breathless hyperbole. It has it all!

 

[alitarbegshe]

It's sad state of media consumption because disc sales are all time low and hardware manufacturer will eventually stopped making 4K players and disc all together one day. Samsung already stopped making 4K Bluray player.

The same thing was said about vinyl

 

[konqerror]

Which of these films were really shot and finished in 4K?

All of them. You go to a cinema, its a digital projector running in 4K. Even if you shot on film, you scan it in at 4K. Unless you're in a developing nation, you don't project from 35 mm film anymore.

You're probably getting movies mixed up with TV.

 

[GenesisST]

I mean. Do you favor a clutter free collection that won’t get damaged. Or not torture your eyes with 1080p instead of 4K in the rare instances. Hmm...

A little but from column A, a little bit from column B. Depends on the movie

 

[Alan Gordon]

You can stream Disney 4K content in 4K on the AppleTV if you buy the film from Vudu, which does charge the extra $5 ($25 vs. $20).

But I agree with you in principle and as such I've bought the physical 4K Blu-rays of Disney/Marvel/Pixar films to get the "4K experience" and then used the free digital copy for the 1080p streaming version when on the road or using an iOS device.

The 4K Blu-rays contain a 4K digital copy, though obviously it would only be HD when streaming from iTunes, but you'd have UHD from VUDU, FandangoNow, Amazon, and Microsoft when you're at home.

 

[th0masp]

Apple treats most of these people like mushrooms -- they keep them in the dark and feed them sh*t.

Finally my time to say: I understood that reference.

 

[Alan Gordon]

Which of these films were really shot and finished in 4K?

Some were shot in 4K, but most are upconverted or remastered in 4K. Even when upconverted, the quality is often superior to 1080p Blu-ray, and the HDR is a huge improvement.

All of them. You go to a cinema, its a digital projector running in 4K. Even if you shot on film, you scan it in at 4K. Unless you're in a developing nation, you don't project from 35 mm film anymore.

You're probably getting movies mixed up with TV.

Actually, most films are not scanned at 4K these days. Even when shot at 4K, the scans are done at a little over 2K.

Thanks to Netflix, Amazon, DC Universe, etc., there's far more TV shows being shot in 4K than movies.

 

[Sodium Chloride]

Well, can you tell the difference between 4K and 1080p if you are playing it with a portable device like an iPad Pro?

 

[Alan Gordon]

Your 1080p blurays most likely a higher video and audio bitrate than the 4k that itunes puts out.

iTunes 4K looks superior to 1080p Blu-rays. They don't look quite as good as 4K Blu-rays though. Plus, HDR makes a big improvement... it's not just the resolution difference.

But even so, streaming audio is improving fast. For example ATMOS is coming to Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, and VUDU.

It's already available on Netflix, iTunes, and VUDU. It's lossy Atmos though.
[doublepost=1557877302][/doublepost]

Well, can you tell the difference between 4K and 1080p if you are playing it with a portable device like an iPad Pro?

Thanks to HDR support, yes.
[doublepost=1557877465][/doublepost]

What I really want to know is why do many of my movies say neither 4k nor HD, even though they are definitely one or the other (only one or two of them are actually SD)?! It's been like that for months if not years, and I was really hoping this new TV app would fix the inconsistencies...

Are these movies imported from Movies Anywhere, because most movies from Movies Anywhere do not display the HD tag even when they are. 4K movies imported from MA correctly show up as 4K though.

 

[Jimmy James]

How does a PURCHASED movie IN YOUR LIBRARY get downgraded?

 

[Kaibelf]

How does a PURCHASED movie IN YOUR LIBRARY get downgraded?

From a licensing authentication issue, apparently. But it was resolved according to the update in the article, and seems to have been a problem for only a matter of hours. Society has somehow continued, so I'm optimistic.

 

[Alan Gordon]

This is not correct. When Apple added 4K support via the Apple 4K TV, they were quite clear that when you purchased the HD version of the film, you would get a 4K version if it was available. And if a 4K version of a film was released that you had previously purchased in HD, you would be able to stream it in 4K. And any future film you purchased in HD that later became available in 4K would be stream-able in 4K.

So you are explicitly buying an "HD" version of the film, which will be streamed at 720p, 1080p or 2160p (4K) dependent on you having the proper playback equipment to support 4K and the content being available in a 4K format.

When you purchase a film from 20th Century Fox, Sony, Universal, and Warner Bros. in iTunes, Movies Anywhere shows that you purchased the film in 4K and ports the respective resolution rights to Amazon, VUDU, FandangoNow, Microsoft, Google Play, etc.

Also, check your purchase history on this site for films purchased while 4K: https://reportaproblem.apple.com/
[doublepost=1557878048][/doublepost]

How does a PURCHASED movie IN YOUR LIBRARY get downgraded?

Apple no longer had 4K copies available to stream.

From a licensing authentication issue, apparently. But it was resolved according to the update in the article, and seems to have been a problem for only a matter of hours. Society has somehow continued, so I'm optimistic.

Days actually. It's not uncommon for Apple to downgrade a title for a few days, but it's rare for so many titles to experience it at one time. Apple did experience an issue the last few weeks with 4K rights of some movies not porting 4K rights to Movies Anywhere, that only got fixed last week, so it may have been something they did on the backend that screwed up a handful of other movies this weekend.

 

[GizmoDVD]

This thread brought the laughs from the crazies.

 

[SackboyDad]

“Die Hard” is only showing HD. It used to be 4K. All the other “Die Hard” series are still in 4K.

Even after the update from MacRumors this title hasn’t been fixed

 

[ChrisA]

And THIS is why you should still buy movies on disc -- no one can downgrade your 4K UHD Blu-ray disc.

What happens when your disc player fails in 10 years and you can't buy a replacement? Kind of like owning a laserdisc collection or some 8-tracks.

 

[Alan Gordon]

“Die Hard” is only showing HD. It used to be 4K. All the other “Die Hard” series are still in 4K.

Even after the update from MacRumors this title hasn’t been fixed

Movies are temporarily downgraded on iTunes all the time. Give it time, and it should return too.

 

[Bniel71403]

Anyone tried deleting the Apple TV app and then reinstalling it??? I did that and it seems to correct the info, but like someone else mentioned some movies (anything that Movies Anywhere upgraded to HD a few years back) still doesn't show any HD by the name

 

[coolfactor]

With so much content available these days, I can't bring myself to buy content anymore. I used to buy songs that I liked back in the 99¢ days, but stopped when the price went up. Now I just stream everything. For screen content, I always want something new, unless it's a classic sci-fi series that I haven't seen in a while.

 

[Gigster]

iTunes 4K looks superior to 1080p Blu-rays. They don't look quite as good as 4K Blu-rays though. Plus, HDR makes a big improvement... it's not just the resolution difference.

Depends. Most times, 1080p Blu Ray still looks better than iTunes 4K. Most consumers just tend to buy into the hype. Dark scenes and scenes involving snow really show up the weaknesses of 4K streaming with macro-blocking and/or banding which you just don't see on Blu Ray.

The H.265 codec uses a compression algorithm whereby a colour/shade is replaced with one of its nearest neighbours. This is called dithering. Sometimes its so aggressive that you get macro-blocking and banding. Other times, it's less noticeable but still there. I can usually tell by looking at the fabric of clothes - it usually looks a tad sharper on 1080p Blu Ray as opposed to 4K streams.

Think about it this way, a film compressed to a quarter of its original file size would indicate that overall, a 4-pixel cluster containing different shades would be replaced with a single shade. That is the equivalent of taking a 1080p film and upsampling it on a 4K screen whereby each individual pixel is now represented by 4 pixels...

For instance, Aquaman was one of the first 4K iTunes films to be cracked. It had a bitrate of 14.2 Mb/s with the H.265 codec. To convert that to the codec as used by Blu Ray (H.264), it would likely double its size and a tad more. Let's be generous and say that it's the equivalent of 35 to 40 Mb/s. Now if you were to go look at the bitrates for ripped Blu Ray remuxes (1:1 conversions), they tend to be 35 to 45 Mb/s.

TLDR: A bit-starved 4K stream is kind of like taking a 1080p Blu Ray and upsampling it on a UHD screen. Even though both pictures are still represented by 3840x2160 pixels, it doesn't really mean they are real 4K...

 

[nsayer]

Whoa there hold your horses, we don’t know any of the details yet. Maybe These titles are being upgraded to 4K HDR, or maybe something else. So soon to pull the trigger

Well, but why wouldn't they just wait to pull the old encoding until after they finished the new one? Why have an "outage" in the interim?

 

[Gasu E.]

My Harry Potter collection I purchased in 4K is downgraded to HD I just checked. Beyond furious right now

If you hadn't read the article, you probably would not have known about this problem, which persisted for only a few hours. So stop reading MacRumors-- it's bad for your blood pressure.

Or alternatively, keep reading MacRumors, but develop patience.
[doublepost=1557893866][/doublepost]

This is why you should always buy a 35mm print of any movie you want to own. They can't downgrade it to 16mm when it's in your projector!

You may laugh, but I keep a16mm projector in my bunker, between the cases of Spam and creamed corn.