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Sounds more ambitious than the original goal of Snow Leopard being a below-the-surface rewrite.
Does it? Some new artwork resources, even a total replacement, isn't really a "feature" and certainly isn't technically ambitious. It's a huge feat for UI designers, but none of them are milling away at the programming. In fact, a release like this is the perfect time, because a more intensive overhaul and development would pull the UI designers away to work on the new software and features, giving them less time to address the system-level design.
And how would one scroll without a ball or a track pad genius? Not many people like the mighty mouse.
Is there really anyone left without a scrolling mouse or a notebook? If you don't like the Mighty Mouse, there are hundreds of others to choose from. Of course, as others have said, scrolling without a ball, wheel, or trackpad would work exactly as it does now: drag your mouse to the window edge and click. Auto-hide isn't exactly a new concept.
But what do you do when your mouse will scroll down but not up?
like the mighty mouse is prone to doing?
Use the scroll bar?
 
Nice, the Aqua scroll scroll bars bug me. Also, in some applications like Photoshop and Firefox, sometimes the loading icon is the Mac OS Classic timer which is really weird. What else could they change though?

Oh please, don't come with Firefox because it sucks on OS X. I mean it still uses images for buttons, toolbars and what not to emulate the look and feel of OS X. Just enter: javascript:alert("boo"); in the location bar and tell me that doesn't suck. Want another example? Open a new tab and right click on it and note that all menu items are enabled, when they shouldn't. There are tons of other examples, but 3th party applications are not Apple's concern, and never will.

Now, I like Aqua and I know a lot of people who said that SL will have to bring loads of goodies before they will upgrade. Yes, it was aqua that made most of them switch, and I personally won't use anything that looks like 'Windows Vista', because I can install Vista whenever I want or need it - to which I say: "No thank you".

I have 21 people who confirmed to have made the switch this month, so far, and not because of Aqua but iWorks - I tell you; Pages can be so much fun when you know what to do with it. Another 6 switched after my "Time Machine" demonstration (yeah yeah, its not the best but included for free).

So it might take some time, but in the end people will just accept Apple's changes and buy the upgrade, simply because you'll want to be "up-to-date" don't you? I mean if we ask Windows users to switch, so why wouldn't we be able to accept a much much smaller change?
 
Agree

So it might take some time, but in the end people will just accept Apple's changes and buy the upgrade, simply because you'll want to be "up-to-date" don't you?

You bet I will. :) I am already saving for it!

The thing is, more than acquiring a good update, which I hope will bring a lot of "goodies", it is for me about supporting innovation that Apple is known for. Since my first iPod, I have seen so much in this community, that amazes me.

It sounds like a blind fan act simply to buy because it has an Apple on it, but the thing is I trust them and I believe it will be a great update regardless of interface changes.
 
I came across these images when helping someone with iPhone tethering:

rzyf

vlfa


I pretty sure it is the new Snow Leopard "Marble" user interface.

Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

And yes, these button styles are an infinite improvement. They really need to take some queues from their web interface elements to implement in their desktop UIs.
 
Really though...

Why change something that works fine and people are used to? Not to be cliche but, don't fix what isn't broken.

I hope they at least give Aqua is still an option at least. And seriously, stop adding cover flow to everything. Sure it looks nice, but it's a horrible inefficient way to navigate through anything.

Uhh.. because it IS broken. OSX definitely needs a visual refresh. I cant believe some people convince themselves that they like aqua. It was fine 10 yrs ago. Not anymore.
 
Would be wonderful if you could choose to have the scroll bars hide when not in use.

It's funny how Apple seems to like putting interface elements in to new programs inconsistently (such as into iTunes and iPhoto but not elsewhere). Microsoft actually do a better job at rolling out new UI features in one go.

No they don't. Microsoft are way worse than Apple for GUI inconsistency across their products, and even within individual products (Visual Studio is dreadfully inconsistent and ignores many Windows GUI conventions).
 
Nice, the Aqua scroll scroll bars bug me. Also, in some applications like Photoshop and Firefox, sometimes the loading icon is the Mac OS Classic timer which is really weird. What else could they change though?

Just a thought, and yes - by the way I also think the Aqua scroll bars are a bit aged. But what about the 'x - +' style, it seems it also is Aqua style; so if Apple change the Aqua scroll bars, will they possibly change the look of the control buttons too?
 
I'm hoping "Marble" will see OS-X looking more like the panels in Aperture. The translucent sleek black that also appeared in the pictures of Quicktime-X from about a month ago.
 
The way I could see it set up is when you get the mouse close to the side of the window the scroll bar appears. Not that complicated honestly...

Scroll bars are a visual indicator as well as a control to be manipulated. With a hidden scroll bar you have no feedback as to your position within a document unless you move the mouse to the edge to see it.

Not all GUI elements are just for clicking on.
 
Bring the iPhone's Safari scroll bar. :cool:

Nice, another thing I want is the FireFox multi-touch gestures in Safari.

-3 fingers up (top of page)
-3 fingers down (bottom of page)
-Rotate fingers to switch tabs

After having the iPhone and being able to just touch the status bar to go all the way back to the top of a long web page it KILLS me to have to scroll and scroll on my Mac now! :(

Sounds like it'll be pretty nice! I just hope they take the time in this UI update which is sounds like they are to get rid of any inconsistencies that the UI still has left over from the other older OS's.

For example:

-The monitor icon on the menu bar that is a cinema display from circa 1645 lol!
-The mini control bar on OS windows like "About This Mac". Why is that one smaller than any other??? It bugs me, makes no sense!

Sounds more ambitious than the original goal of Snow Leopard being a below-the-surface rewrite. I hope it's a well thought out gui advance, rather than jumbling things around for the sake of a marketing angle.

I have maintained from the beginning that after Apple promised a lot with Leopard and had a bit of a buggy start and removed features, they decided to under promise and over deliver this time with Snow Leopard. By saying that it will all be under the hood, they take all the pressure off feature wise and then they can surprise us with features that they have been planning the whole time anyway!

P.S. I loved aqua, but yes I think it is time for it to go. I like the new GUIs but the flat blue scroll bar on black bugs me. It looks weird. on the white is fine like in iTunes, but on the black looks really mismatched.

Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

And yes, these button styles are an infinite improvement. They really need to take some queues from their web interface elements to implement in their desktop UIs.

I highly disagree. If they did what you are proposing with the rounded corners etc. it would look completely retarded!

Overall I think the sign of what is coming is the iPhone GUI and their website.
 
Sounds more ambitious than the original goal of Snow Leopard being a below-the-surface rewrite. I hope it's a well thought out gui advance, rather than jumbling things around for the sake of a marketing angle.

Or, more likely, one of the Top Secret features of Leopard which had to be canned as it got more and more delayed.

Of course Apple weren't going to make the same mistake twice. This time they have clearly worked to lower expectations so they can offer a few surprises.

And when Snow Leopard ships it will be >18 months since Leopard shipped. They've had enough time.
 
I wan't paradigm shift.
it's been thirty years of menu's, windows, scroll bars etc etc.
obviously you cant totally get rid of it, but I think apple should give an API for view plugins.
ZUI ZUI ZUI.
lets see my files arranged with various packing algorithms ala expose. make the most frequently used ones larger.
let my spotlight results come in the form of a huge 3 dimensional dispersion of files, each represented it's own preview, the better matches closer to the camera.
let the icons for widgets be usable widgets
ditch stacks.


also, if we're going to use spotlight as a central metadata repository, there needs to be real usable ways to store metadata derived from more complex algorithms for instance, tempo for mp3s or color pallette for images. these are all standard features in apps and apple can lead the way by standardizing metadata formats.



please make menu's more dynamic. the most you can do now is shove an icon in there! how bout sliders and buttons, or something better
 
i'm quite sure Snow Leopard was what Leopard was supposed to be. Then they got hit by the iPhone development resource hoggers and probably didn't plan things out well.

I hope we see some real big things come out of Snow Leopard. I for one am happy that they have gone for a code optimization rather than slather on newer features.
 
I wan't paradigm shift.
it's been thirty years of menu's, windows, scroll bars etc etc....

please make menu's more dynamic. the most you can do now is shove an icon in there! how bout sliders and buttons, or something better
The guy who brought us the Mozilla tabs also introduced menu tiles, which I think might end up in GUI's one day soon - I've worked with the beta and that I tell you was another stunning experience.
 
How about they introduce themes? Something else than just gray, gray and gray?

Sigh... how I wish... I miss the good ol' days of Tiger w/ ShapeShifter.

Use the scroll bar?

Or the arrow keys on the keyboard... :rolleyes:

I hope they keep Aqua as an option, at least.

"Apple" and "option" in the same sentence? You best be jokin'... :p

Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

aerowizard.png


Like that?

Why must every accountant pretend to be a designer these days :rolleyes:

I cant believe some people convince themselves that they like aqua. It was fine 10 yrs ago. Not anymore.

First of all, don't double post. Second of all, who, if I may ask, in hell are you to preach to people about what they like, and more importantly, who, in that same hell, are you to tell them that you know better about what they like?
 
Well i like the Aqua too, the jelly makes the UI of Apple unique. And it's one of the basics of Apple for 10 years.

I don't like it when people cry how outdated that is. You might get tired of it in your fast consumerish world, but a good design is and stays timeless.

I quite fear the changes and even more the word 'marble'. It reminds me of three things
* some 90's kinda marble effect used in cheesy websites. It won't look like this, but my brain keeps activating that association.
* something vista would use.
* gray, dark gray, light gray and gray-isch gray...sounds like fun huh, maybe in a bookkeepers office...

On the other hand, for Apple as a business company, some overhaul may be in it's place, just for the marketing and the lightheaded consumers
 
DO EVERYTHING IN COVER FLOW!!!!!
IT'S A REVOLUTION IN THE GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE!!!
and of course, being good little fanboys, we would all flock out to the apple stores to buy it.
:)
 
They could always use ice as the starting point this time, and still stay in H20 territory.

The Aqua interface was designed to match these...

180026249676.jpg


...not these.

imac_narrowweb__300x442,2.jpg

great analogy!

if there is a UI update we know its definately going to look like iTunes/iPhoto. Look at the Leopard UI update we saw before in iTunes 7. Apple likes to trial their UI in iTunes as it has its own UI resources which will show in Leopard, Tiger and Windows.
 
I cant believe some people convince themselves that they like aqua. It was fine 10 yrs ago. Not anymore.

Hard to accept different opinions, eh? I too like Aqua, because it is _different_! It is not the usual interface, but instead brings some fun into computing. Think of the "Mac and PC" ad campaign: Aqua is the Mac, grey-in-dull-grey interfaces are the PC.

I still like the Cube and its matching TFT displays, partly also because of that pinstripe look, which makes a great match with Aqua. Since Apple slowly, but surely migrated to a more "serious" look on both machines (Aluminum and black instead of Acryl and white) and interface, in my view they also lost the "WOW"-factor somehow. Back in those days they stood out with machines that _exhibited_ the "Think Different" mentality. Think of the coloured iMac G3, "flowerpot" iMac G4, Cube...
You could really see the fun the engineers had in tinkering with new approaches. Computers suddenly were "emotional" again - people bought because they felt attracted on a non-rational level. The Amiga had a similar effect - people had some emotional relation to their machines with computer chips having real names (like Agnus, Denise, Paula etc.) instead of cryptic numbers or functional names like memory controller or Audio chip.

Of course you have to do evolutionary steps - but every now and then it's time for something revolutionary. If you don't do that and only make evolutionary steps all the time while trying to become more mainstreamish (and going for rational decisions only), you suddenly find yourself within heavy competition. If the machines look pretty much similar to what is already there in the market, people start to compare. Why pay a premium for an Apple box, if the OS is the major distinction to a Wintel box, which looks pretty similar? That's why many people go for a hackintosh these days.

And if Apple now slowly mutates its interface to be (even more) mainstreamish, people will start to ask, why to even bother with struggling with all the hackintosh issues, when they could go for Windows 7, offering a similar experience (at least in their perception). People might argue now, that OSX still has some unique features. But the question is - which of those are really necessary and recognized as such by the user? And which are offered in only slightly different form by other OS's like Windows or Linux as well?!

IMO Apple seriously has to rethink its business model. Until now, they targeted the design-oriented geeks, designers and other people feeling and/or behaving different. They were ready to pay the premium Apple asked, because they were getting a really different product and user experience and - most important - made their purchase decision more on an emotional rather than rational basis.
If Apple decides they have to pursue high numbers of machines by going to look and feel mainstream, they'll lose much of the emotional aspect (often referred to as Steve Jobs' Reality distortion field :) and should better be prepared for intense competition (i.e. price as the dominating factor). If people start to base their purchase decision solely on rational facts (which is fostered by going to look more and more like everyone else), Apples behaviour as a company (e.g. no roadmaps) together with their huge price premium may in the long run have a negative effect on their sales.

Back on topic: People feel Aqua is outdated - maybe because it has not been really updated ever since OSX 10.1. I think the dynamic "waterish" effect could be improved. Make it more realistic, for example. The progress bar could have slower moving "waves" with irregular distances instead of the current uniform waves which have exactly the same distance to predecessor and successor elements. Make it visually roll around the longitudinal axis or irregularly sway back and forth within the bar. Add a very short ripple effect when moving windows and icons (and make this optional so users can switch it off if they don't like it). Use "water drops" in Spotlight instead of (or together with) light circles to highlight search results. Make menus "flow down" instead of simply opening in an instant.

You want to better match the actual silver/black look of the current machines? Give the scroll and progress bars (animated) water in black! Bring on white-on-black pinstripes (isn't that what all the serious businessmen are wearing anyway?) to the window frames. Just don't forget to continue to offer the original Aqua theme for people like me who still like its colourful, yet non-obstrusive look even in aluminum machines (by far more harmonic than e.g. Windows XP's candy look).

What else? I'm sure other people could easily dozens of other suggestions how to really update the Aqua theme without getting too serious and "business-like" by going towards granite, marble, brushed metal and whatever else looks greyish.

Maybe Apple will still surprise me with a really realistic black-and-white marble look that is matched by applied foils giving the computer a look as if its housing would be made of real marble. Something similarly overwhelming and "different" as the first series of coloured iMacs. But seeing the development over the recent years, my hopes are not exactly high...

/Rant over - thanks for reading.
 
Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

It's just a design technique. It looks fine - not everything has to have matching collar and cuffs.

I cant believe some people convince themselves that they like aqua. It was fine 10 yrs ago. Not anymore.

Helvetica was fine in 1957 and it's still fine now! :D
 
Me too.

Who really cares about the color of the scroll bar? Or if it's the same from app to app? That doesn't change the functionality or anything. I'm sure it wouldn't change my overall mac experience if they were all the same either.

I agree, I never even noticed it till reading this thread. Aperture and iTunes have different colour scroll bars, is it such a big deal, doesn't seem much of a dramatic change to the OS compared to the stuff we've already heard about.
 
Scroll bars are a visual indicator as well as a control to be manipulated. With a hidden scroll bar you have no feedback as to your position within a document unless you move the mouse to the edge to see it.

Not all GUI elements are just for clicking on.

*applause*

Thank you!

Because I'm addicted to two-finger scrolling, I never use scroll bars as actual things to click on. For me, they're purely an indication of my current relative position within the document, as well as a rough gauge of how big the document I'm reading is.

For example, when browsing to an article I intend to read in Safari, the first thing I do (almost subconsciously) is glance at the scroll bar to check the size of the scroller. If it's a small 'blob' at the top of the bar, I know the page is on the long side. If it takes up half the scroller, I know it's approximately two screen-fulls.

Of all the avenues for innovation in the user interface which Apple could follow, messing with the scroll bar's functionality is just plain silly.
 
I guess we'll see buttons a bit like those on the MobileMe web apps pop-ups (e.g. for the OK button or whatever).

What I would love to see introduced to Mac OS X is iPhone-like scroll view behaviour - i.e. to be able to take a page, grab it with the mouse and then flick it up to scroll down, complete with bounce at the bottom of the page. Although I often use the two finger multi-touch trackpad gesture to move around a page, this method would be far simpler and easier than reaching for the scroll bar every time you want to move the page just a little bit.

That said, the scroll bar must not go entirely, as the above method is an inefficient method for scrolling a large page (which is a problem on the iPhone).
 
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