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I don't like it when people cry how outdated that is. You might get tired of it in your fast consumerish world, but a good design is and stays timeless.

That doesn't mean a good design can't become dated. Aqua is a great design, but it has definitely dated, IMO. Look at the pictures of the two iMacs in this thread - one looks dated - great, but dated - the other one doesn't.

Ironically, I always use the Windows Classic theme on XP because I find it's the only one that hasn't dated. Odd.
 
A bit off topic, but a couple of years ago, in my first year of computer science at University (I dropped it in favour of maths), I learned some basic ideas that designers think about when developing a GUI. I thought it was pretty interesting stuff, so I'll share some of it here:

(I'm on a Windows computer just now so it's a bit hard to reference this to Mac OS X, but I'll try):

When using fonts in a GUI, you'll notice they're all sans serif fonts (i.e. Arial). Serif fonts (i.e. Times New Roman) are avoided. Sans serif fonts are easy for us to read, and stand out visibly.
Serif fonts are best used for blocks of text (i.e. essays, novels) because the serifs at the end of strokes apparently help your eyes flow with the text, making it easier to read.
If you look at most companies logos, NO SMOKING signs, or any kind of sign you see on the street, they are all using sans serif fonts. Where as your favourite book will definietely use a serif font.

I'm using Internet Explorer just now, and at the top, I have: File, Edit, View, Favourites, Tools and Help. I was told designers should ideally place between 5 and 9 menus at the top (7 +/- 2). This is the optimum amount of things a Human can remember. If you place, say 13 menus at the top, it greatly over complicates the GUI. Try it out. I just opened Microsoft Word and it has 9 menu items: File, Edit, View, Insert, Format, Tools, Table, Window and Help.

When you click on one of those menus, i.e. File, another menu will appear. On this new menu there is a lot of reasons why things are ordered the way they are.
Notice if you click on File, then go to Open. Notice 'Open' is followed by ellipses (Open...). These "..." implies that when you select this command, there is more feedback from the user required. For example, if you go to File and Exit or File and Quit, you'll notice there are no "..." because when you quit, the command is final, no more input is required. "Save as..." will always have ellipses as when you select the command, the OS requires more information from you to save the file.

You'll notice as well (on Windows and OS X) that when you click on a menu it has been designed so the most commonly used commands are at the top, or in some cases the more severe command is at the bottom. That is why "Quit" or "Exit" is always at the bottom of the File menu, because it is the most severe command you can use in the program, as it will close it down.

And finally, if you click on a menu, such as File, you'll notice a process called "chunking" is used. Commands which are related to each other are grouped together and separated from other commands by a horizontal line. For example, on the Edit menu of Internet Explorer:

Cut
Copy
Paste
--------------- <------ line separating cut, copy and paste.
Select All
---------------
Find on this Page...


Again, notice the ellipses on "Find on this Page" implying that when you select that command, more information is required from you. The line separates cut, copy and paste from 'select all' as these are different types of commands.

None of this has anything to do with this topic, but I never knew any of this stuff until it was pointed out to me and I think it's amazing to think that pretty much everything in the OS is designed in a certain way for a particular reason. There are probably loads of other reasons why certain things are designed in certain ways in the OS, but these are the ones covered in the course I studied.

I hope some of you find it interesting. :)
 
Clean it

But what do you do when your mouse will scroll down but not up?
like the mighty mouse is prone to doing?

I had the same issues ... turn the mouse upside down and run the track ball over a piece of clean white paper. All the built up finger grime comes out, and you're good to go.

tattoo
 
Hard to accept different opinions, eh? I too like Aqua, because it is _different_! It is not the usual interface, but instead brings some fun into computing. Think of the "Mac and PC" ad campaign: Aqua is the Mac, grey-in-dull-grey interfaces are the PC.
Umm... I would love it if Windows was grey-in-dull-grey, but unfortunately it's the other way around - OS X is various shades of greyscale gradients á la iTunes and Mail, while Windows is a barrage of blue and green with the odd yellow and red elements tossed in. An operating system should, ideally, stay in the background and not try to outshine the applicatons and the content. Vista fails miserably in that department, as there are so many strong colors everywhere competing for your attention that you can barely focus on your work. I would place the target demographic of Vista's overall appearance in the 3-8 years old span, and interpret the message as "computing is FUN!". OS X feels much more aimed at adults and professionals. Well, with the exception of the Dock and its huge icons, which reminds me of some sort of 'toddler' mode that you could start up old Mac Performa machines in, back in the early 90's... it was called "EzMac" or something like that. Rather than the standard desktop you'd just get a row of gargantuan icons so that 3-years-olds could point and click on them with ease.

The dull grey look *is* what's unique about the OS X interface these days, it's what makes it look classy and professional, so I hope they explore that further. if you want an explosion of colors, blobby shapes and bevels in the Aqua vein there's Windows Vista for that.
 
I like aqua. Guess I'm stupid or something.

Nah I don't think so! I also prefer Aqua along with the brushed metal from Tiger. I think the flat look in iTunes stink, reminds me of windows. Where has the innovation gone and while were at it how about user selectable themes across all apps?:rolleyes:
 
What they really need to do is change make the command buttons bigger. And square. And move them to the right side of the window. ...then put the "file/edit/view" menus in the window ...Then add a "start" menu in the dock (do you get angrier and angrier as you read this? haha)
 
The dull grey look *is* what's unique about the OS X interface these days, it's what makes it look classy and professional, so I hope they explore that further.

You got me wrong. My comparison of a grey-in-dull-grey to the PC in the Mac & PC campaign was to outline the boringness! And my posting was exactly about that i do _not_ want Apple to explore that route further, but instead revert to an unobstrusive freshness as they offered with the first and pure Aqua theme, where the colours were well-chosen with only a decent intenseness and used distinctively, while XP was the candy shop, trying to imitate the success of OSX.

if you want an explosion of colors, blobby shapes and bevels in the Aqua vein there's Windows Vista for that.

Again - i do _not_ vote for a similar candybar style in OSX, but i vote against themes that could be called "shades of grey". I happen to like colours on my desktop, if they are used well-chosen. "Grey in grey" does not necessarily equal "classy and professional" and even more important do "Colours" not automatically equal "tacky and unprofessional"!
 
A bit off topic, but a couple of years ago, in my first year of computer science at University (I dropped it in favour of maths), I learned some basic ideas that designers think about when developing a GUI. I thought it was pretty interesting stuff, so I'll share some of it here:

[snip]

I'm an application developer and have to think about this all the time. Fun stuff...
 
It's just like the guys over in Redmond, Vista and Win7 sport several different looks from different versions of Windows, they use several different system fonts with blatant inconsistency. And on top of that there's the WMP look, the Live look, the IE look, the Office look...

Back when I was a PC user, the inconsistent themes across Windows 95 and 98 always bugged me:

folders1.png


Half of the time in 98, the icons still looked like Windows 95. Of course, the whole thing was still horrifically ugly, especially when compared to System 8. :D
 
Anyone else think they might make scrolling animation like the iPhone? When you scroll, the page keeps moving until it slows down and stops. I really like that effect for some reason.
 
Well, with the exception of the Dock and its huge icons, which reminds me of some sort of 'toddler' mode that you could start up old Mac Performa machines in, back in the early 90's... it was called "EzMac" or something like that. Rather than the standard desktop you'd just get a row of gargantuan icons so that 3-years-olds could point and click on them with ease.

:D How to fix that:

1. Set Magnification to "off".

2. Open Terminal and enter the following:

Code:
defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean NO; killall Dock

Enjoy. :D
 
I would place the target demographic of Vista's overall appearance in the 3-8 years old span, and interpret the message as "computing is FUN!".

"Oh, FUN! We tried that once, it was nothing but pain and frustration!" :D :D
 
I'm just glad that they're doing something to the UI - at least it will look like an upgrade now...
 
I had the same issues ... turn the mouse upside down and run the track ball over a piece of clean white paper. All the built up finger grime comes out, and you're good to go.

tattoo

That got old really fast.
 
Now this would be awesome! I would love to see the iPhone scroll bars throughout the entire OS. One thing that has bothered me is the differences with iLife and the rest of the OS. It seems that they do not work together on the interfaces and just change things whenever they want to.

I recently found a program (iLeopard) that takes all of the aqua details out Leopard. I like the look a lot better than all of the blue from Tiger. The marble interface will be a welcomed feature in my opinion!

Speaking of iPhone. When youtiuch the Topif the browser, it snaps to top, anyone else peeved that there is no snap to bottom and sometime after pages reload, you sit there spending a minute getting back to the point you were at, say a forum, by scrolling down, down, down. Should be an easy fix. Anyone know what I mean?
 
That said, the scroll bar must not go entirely, as the above method is an inefficient method for scrolling a large page (which is a problem on the iPhone).

It could probably be implemented similar to the iPhone: just click (or tap) on the menu bar to get back to the top, or click on the status bar at the bottom to jump to the bottom of the page.
 
A new look and feel to the Finder interface is welcome news, but I have to admit I'm much more excited about the complete rewrite in Cocoa! :D

So long Carbon! :eek:
 
Jeez! I like the current interface. I really like the 3D look. iTunes? I think it looks like Windows. The only part I would want changed are those three little 'droplets' in the upper left of every window (the traffic lights). They are not nearly big enough to suit me. I regularly click on the wrong one.
Other than that, I hope they leave it alone.
Rich :cool:
 
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