Mark Zuckerberg Says Apple Vision Pro Has No 'Magical Solutions'

[jole]

I mean…let’s factor in a few things (saying this as someone who doesn’t plan to buy a first-gen, just interested in talking price for what you get here)

83” Sony 4K OLED (same company manufacturing AVP displays): $5,499.99

M2 13” MBA (bare minimum, since this thing can mirror any Mac and has an M2 in it): $1099

AirPods Max (for Spatial Audio): $549

total: $7,147.99

🤷‍♂️

AVP would be a TV replacement only for one person. I would expect most families with AVP in the house to ALSO have a TV.

AVP does not replace a Mac, but can replace an iPad. I would expect most AVP buyers to have a Mac as well. (These are tech enthusiastic people, not people who do not own a computer). They may choose to stop using an iPad.

AirPods Max may become redundant, but AirPods Pro will still be needed.

 

[robbietop]

I think you've missed the whole point, but that's ok, it's not for you 😊
On a wider point, it's not technology that takes us away from interaction with other people and being unsociable, it's people not understanding how tech should be used, what for and how long, the other thing wrong with tech is parents introducing/allowing their kids to use it too early and then without proper parental control, why? to have less interaction with their kids for the sake of a bit of piece & quite 😏

It will not sell. It will be abandoned in a few years. Its feature set is done better on already existing devices. There is no pent up need for it. Out of the 100 people I interact with on a daily basis, only two have even brought it up with me and didn't even see the news.

I don't think that's a need.

I remember in 2006, everyone was asking me once a month when apple was releasing a phone. Those rumors were huge and everyone was super excited.

The excitement over this seems to be mainly tech geeks and nerds. That's not a very large demographic.

 

[robbietop]

Only thing, at least for me, that a headset would do better is maybe 3D stuff. Games, architectural modeling, etc. I've never used a headset before so can't say for certain, though

I agree that it is mostly going to be a gaming device. Architectural is extremely niche, and you have to go to school and be licensed by the state. And 3D modeling is also extremely niche. And CAD already exists and is how most do that.

 

[robbietop]

The iPhone was announced in June 2007 and available in stores in July 2007. This product is still likely 9 months out.

Yes, but thousands of people were abuzz with speculation. National news was talking about it for years leading up to the official announcement. Everyone crashed Macrumors website in Jan 07 because everyone and their mother on this planet wanted to know what it did and when they could get one.

This product announcement was mostly hyped in the last month by extreme insecurity in Apple's own management team rumored to be hesitant.

And nobody at work has even remotely mentioned it. I work with 40-50 people a week and only two dudes cracked jokes about nerds wearing protective gear sitting at the lake alone.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I'm still sticking with at least a million sold in 2024. Plus, it's not 1/1/2024 start date so.
If they sell 10 million... Then WOW. 🤯

The 50 million is potential user base, not that it will be realized. Even with a million sold, its a good entry for Apple for those will take advantage to build out the content and app ecosystem. We mostly talk about developers, but the content development side is another big deal.

 

[boyarka]

VR gaming is not niche. It's not completely mainstream, but definitely not niche. There's near 200 million VR gamers.

Compared to ANY other gaming platforms/games it's incredibly niche.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

I don't like Zuckerberg, but he understands at the core why I dislike this entire concept. "Each demo they showed was a person ALONE on a couch." or something similar.

The device is inherently solipsistic and is bordering on nihilistic/narcissistic.

I do not want a future where we're all sitting alone on a couch or at the lake (who the **** drives to a lake to hang out alone in a headset?) moving our hands around like idiots in some quasi-brain in a vat scenario that is the hilarious real world criticism of Renee Descartes "I think, therefore I exist".

The device is literally just a self-reinforcing solipsism where the user completely becomes the product. You could learn intrinsic behavioral attitudes from this headset and the privacy implications alone were not only not addressed by Apple, they have not been addressed by anyone. Eye movement can reveal health issues, behavioral styles, opinions, emotions, etc.

Then, to top it all off, all I saw were people hanging out with people but not hanging out with people. Like a Vaudevillian parody of the COVID19 draconian stay in place rules becoming normal human behavior. You just put on your jerk off headset and chat with your Tinder date? Instead of actually going out and hanging out in the flesh, like a normal social human being.

Also, the device's core functionality is redundant in that all of its core functions are done much easier, much more convenient, and far less expensive.

Messaging and FaceTime: iPhone. Or Mac. Or Windows PC with a webcam.

Desktop productivity: Solved this with the monitor, which is now lightweight, thin, and cheap. Also, mouse and keyboard are far better Input devices. iPad has touch, another far more intuitive Input mechanism.

Security: FaceID already uses eye scan technology, and retina scan is not necessary, but is a possible evolution.

Media consumption: This is ridiculous that this headset will somehow be better than a large widescreen 4kTV with HDR. Or my iPad. Or my iPhone.

Gaming: I will say this a thousand times....Handheld controllers will always be superior. If you're a PC gamer, ok, keyboard can be useful. But an Xbox or PS5 controller is a far better input device.

So, why am I spending $3499 for a cumbersome helmet when I could buy a 76" 4k HDR TV, 42" Monitor, a mouse and keyboard for $60, a PS5/Xbox for $499, and two extra controllers and still have enough for a MacBook Air M2?

So you dislike the concept of Vision Pro because the demo shows a person alone while using the device? Is this any different from the experience that Meta offers, or any other device of this sort? What about mobile phones, laptops, tablets — are these “social” experiences or are they designed to be used alone for a specific purpose? I’ve seen groups of people that are all on mobile devices and not engaging with each other. And when groups of people watch television or a theater screen together, there is very little if any socializing going on. The truth is that all of us have individual experiences that happen when we are by ourselves, and sometimes around others.

You think Vision Pro is “inherently solipsistic”? Solipsism is a philosophical theory that basically questions the actual existence of the external world and those around you. An electronic device can’t be inherently anything because it is a man made machine, and it certainly can’t generate a philosophical thought. A machine also can’t be nihilistic or narcissistic. A person using a machine can be nihilistic or narcissistic, but not on account of the machine they are using.

It is clear that you don’t understand the meaning of the terms you are spouting off, so why the verbal gymnastics? The bigger question to ask yourself is why an electronic device would make you so angry.

 

[patent10021]

1. The Vision Pro has extremely accurate eye tracking to eliminate cybersickness. This is accomplished with dual 4K displays, novel IR sensors, superior headset ergonomics and other tech. High frame rates and accurate motion and eye tracking have always been a challenge in VR research and the Vision Pro appears to address these challenges.

2. No more hardware controllers as navigation is now accomplished with your hands, eyes and voice in tandem with IR and Lidar sensors.


I would say that the Vision Pro is close to what researchers at Sony originally envisioned for AR/VR. Sony, and now Apple, are the leaders in this Space.

 

[vladi]

This is almost exactly how I'll use the device. I'm a writer. But my project is equal parts text and graphic novel, too.

But what I'm always trying to do is to get into a flow state while I write. To this end, the element of "immersion" is what has me sold on buying and trying the device. I'll likely use a bluetooth keyboard for typing. But the ability to put myself into an environment outside my traditional office is the killer app for me. Many writers esconce themselves in some far away place without distractions. I at one point had a remote cabin in the mountains of Guatemala that I used to get me into that state. But with this tool, I"ll be able to custom craft an immersive environment.

Maybe it won't work. But I think it will.

Did you try current VR headsets? I can't last more than 15 minutes. If you have the slightest cased of crossed eyes that's barely visible or not even visible at all you will have a really hard time with stereoscopic VR.

 

[vladi]

I mean…let’s factor in a few things (saying this as someone who doesn’t plan to buy a first-gen, just interested in talking price for what you get here)

83” Sony 4K OLED (same company manufacturing AVP displays): $5,499.99

M2 13” MBA (bare minimum, since this thing can mirror any Mac and has an M2 in it): $1099

AirPods Max (for Spatial Audio): $549

total: $7,147.99

🤷‍♂️

Uhm you got it all wrong. You don't need 80"+ OLED because it's gonna die on you within three years (if you are lucky). If you want state of the art TV that you might want to take a loo at 8K miniLED Z9K (it will last you a lifetime). But for the money of OLED you quoted you can get a real good 4K Sony Projector and stereoscopic 3D. Instead of MBA which you don't need you can get a proper projector screen such as Elite. And when it comes to sound nothing beats true surround setups and none of that softwate upmix bs that apple and sony do on their phone apps.

 

[XboxEvolved]

The iPhone was at launch seems night and day as a product because of how well it assimilated previous research and new UX on hardware that just became mature enough. It didn’t introduce anything completely new. You can see hints of what would become the iPhone from past work by companies like General Magic and Fingerworks. It seems revolutionary to us now because everyone else started followed in its footsteps and changed the entire industry to multitouch and apps. The vision pro hasn’t been around long enough to be judged one way or the other.

“I know it was amazing and it was because of this crappy company apple bought that you never heard of before and this crappy company apple bought and did something useful with” like lol what are you even saying?

 

[Abazigal]

I suspect with many Apple users, it’s not going to be a choice between vision pro or meta quest. Instead, it’s either vision pro or continue using their existing Apple hardware.

In this sense, we may not see Apple lose sales to cheaper alternatives even if their user base feel they are being priced out of the market.

 

[spcopsmac21]

That would suggest that, 70 million people can afford it, which will make Apple really happy 😊 I suspect, when it launches world wide, not just US & Canada, at least 10 million will be sold

Well those numbers you just threw down are highly subjective.
Out of those 70 million people 25% might be in the developed world and make more than the average fast food employee.

 

[spcopsmac21]

with avatars

That’s a lot of seamen floating around.

 

[return2sendai]

Zuckerberg is also afraid he will never come close to what Apple has to offer. See it for yourself.

View attachment 2215281What are you saying? I cannot identify the man on the right. But the man on the left is clearly the real Zucko.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

“I know it was amazing and it was because of this crappy company apple bought that you never heard of before and this crappy company apple bought and did something useful with” like lol what are you even saying?

If you think General Magic was just “some crappy company” you seriously need to educate yourself on the history of Silicon Valley. Some of the most innovative technologies and concepts came out of this company.

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

I agree that it is mostly going to be a gaming device. Architectural is extremely niche, and you have to go to school and be licensed by the state. And 3D modeling is also extremely niche. And CAD already exists and is how most do that.

But it’s terrible as a gaming device, with a GPU on par with a PS4 Pro (or a mid range NVDA card from 5+ years ago) it has no hope of creating full rendered VR environments common to gaming, even with huge gains from foveated rendering. It’s got great resolution and contrast and clearly geared towards AR tasks and activities, but AR games are basically non existent at this point. Hell even a 4090 would struggle to render complex graphics at the Vision Pros resolution levels.

 

[dwaite]

No doubt. This is why the VR community was so excited over the idea of Apple making an HMD even if it would be out of price of general consumers, because it would bring a lot of interest into VR/AR and bring in new headset sales

So for a while Apple's success will be Meta's success...at least until the consumer model arrives, then history is gonna repeat itself just like it did with the iPhone.

The problem for those third party headsets will be if Apple takes the high end (high margin) section of the market, while also ensuring they have the headroom to include better tech and the operational skill to get tech secured as it becomes available.

Two years from now, the Quest Pro may look like half price for five-year-old tech, while the base Quest will look like Google Cardboard.

 

[macmarco]

May be Mark idea of magical solution is a metaverse with tons of ad like FB. ppl not being alone at home like apple video but with tons of billboards hiding all walls.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Compared to ANY other gaming platforms/games it's incredibly niche.

VR gaming is just a new market. The growth rate shows it's not niche.

 

[dwaite]

I know it’s popular to hate on Facebook. My guess is, a lot of the Facebook haters here still have Facebook or Instagram accounts. People love to hate on them, but very few people will actually put their money where their mouths are…and delete their accounts.

I have several groups on there that I need to participate in. Facebook will happily host your group message board for "free" because the value they get from interest clustering for targeting ads.

Thats why Zuck wants Oculus to be a social platform so much - because then people will have a brutal time leaving the ecosystem.

What “magical” solution has Facebook offered the world? None. Just like Apple and all the rest. None of these solutions are “magic”. They are technology. Magic is a stupid word to describe technology. Facebook has built a platform that connects almost half the people on Earth, though. What have all the armchair pundits on Mac Rumors offered the world?

I dunno, I'm someone who has done hardware and software development up and down the full stack. So my definition of magic is I imagine the same as a professional magician's definition. If he sees someone else perform and can't figure out even what approaches might fully accomplish their illusion, it is indeed magic.

I interpret Zuck as saying he thinks his teams could accomplish the same (hardware) things, and that Apple hasn't found a way around hardware limitations (other than throwing more, higher quality components at the problem)

 

[dwaite]

VR gaming is just a new market. The growth rate shows it's not niche.

Nintendo's Virtual Boy

 

[dwaite]

If anything it makes me wish that the Apple Vision Pro had touch controllers and PCVR compatibility so I could ditch my Quest.

I don't think either of these are out of the question. I'm not familiar how positional location actually works with the controllers, though.

 

[dwaite]

Apple and every big tech is doing it.

This may be a concern, but it is a different concern than if Apple was looking at your behavior outside the App Store, or pulling in other phone data (such as location) to build a profile about you.

Facebook tracked behavior across the internet of people without Facebook accounts in order to build profiles on them. Third party cookie blocks in Safari and App Tracking Transparency in iOS made a big dent in their ability to do that.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Nintendo's Virtual Boy

Come on now. We're talking about modern VR.

Nintendo was known for throwing out gizmos that barely worked and were complete failures.