Mark Zuckerberg Says Apple Vision Pro Has No 'Magical Solutions'

[djphat2000]

The other dude was talking about watching a movie.

And to answer your question, yes. I use a wireless mouse and keyboard with my MacBook Pro hooked up to the TV using an HDMI cable. I don't know what's so unpleasant about it.

It works. But, if you looking for a way to validate using Vision Pro. It would eliminate the wire. And the TV you're connecting to. And the speakers either from a separate headset or from the TV speakers. You're not fixed by that cable either. You can say, sit out on the balcony and look outside (if you're in a nice area worth looking outside). And have a massive workspace WHILE also seeing everything else around you.

 

[MacWiz_007]

It works. But, if you looking for a way to validate using Vision Pro. It would eliminate the wire. And the TV you're connecting to. And the speakers either from a separate headset or from the TV speakers. You're not fixed by that cable either. You can say, sit out on the balcony and look outside (if you're in a nice area worth looking outside). And have a massive workspace WHILE also seeing everything else around you.

Don't forget being tethered to a power outlet since the battery life unplugged is only two hours, at most. Even when you're not tethered to a power outlet you still have to carry the battery pack around with you, which is attached to the device via a cord. Neither of these options is ideal. And, if it is too heavy to wear for more than an hour or two then it's already out the window for most people. Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[robbietop]

I don't use my MacBook Air in that way, nor would I use a Vision Pro in that way. I've been self employed for a long time, working out of a home office. I'm a writer. I'll use the Vision Pro to help in a writing project about building community that I'm working on.

Again, it's your own seeming issues with the Vision Pro and community that seem to drive your attitude here. Not the product itself.

I do not see how a headset is better than a computer screen

 

[robbietop]

You could take it to the lake with your friends and take some pictures and video. Then you could put it away and hang out more. If there's down-time, maybe you put it back on. People don't have to be social all the time.

I can just take pictures using my phone. That fits in my pocket. With all day battery life.

 

[djphat2000]

Don't forget being tethered to a power outlet since the battery life unplugged is only two hours, at most. Even when you're not tethered to a power outlet you still have to carry the battery pack around with you, which is attached to the device via a cord. Neither of these options is ideal. And, if it is too heavy to wear for more than an hour or two then it's already out the window for most people. Just playing devil's advocate here.

The battery life is an issue. 2 hours isn't enough for sure. Double that would be fair.
But. For long flights. You most likely have something to plug a USB cord into. And if the USB port on the battery can pass through power, and charge. You can at least add another battery to it. Yes, you would have to carry that either in your pocket or bag or something. This will be an issue till we can get better batteries (smaller and more powerful!).

It would be nice if the headset can hold some power, say 5 minutes so you can easy swap batteries.

Weight is another issue. But, looking at it they took all the tech they currently deploy. Same for materials. I'll take this over a plastic box any day.

 

[unikzforce]

I feel pity for this guy, he is willing to sell information of his own family members to get money out of it.

Such a cheap personality.

i'm so happy that apple announced this just after he backstabbed his tech workers and laid thousands of them off and shut down Metaverse. his vision for Metaverse was also a backstab to the Metaverse itself, i'm happy that he has no role in innovation in this area, and I wish all those remaining hard working genius tech workers that work for him separate and go work for a more decent company.

 

[MacWiz_007]

I work on a Macbook Air. Either in my home office or In a hotel room, I am almost always plugged in. So, being tethered is normal for my computing experience. As for the battery pack, it will sit on my chair or the bed next to me, not much different than my power cord to my laptop. So, no concern for me there.

Again and again, I'm not certain why so many people keep thinking about this as a walking around mobile device. It's a computer. It's not primarily a gaming device; many people keep being confused by this point, because that's all they know of AR/VR so far. And that's what Meta has highlighted so much. "Jumping around, waving your arms, playing Beat Saber." I don't think of the Vision Pro like that at all. It's a productivity tool for me.

Will it be too heavy to wear for a more than couple of hours? I'll take a coffee break. It's rare for me to sit more than two straight hours at a time without getting up and moving around. So, you may be right, but we'll see. This is an entirely new way to compute, at least for me. We'll see how it works.

Ah, we have different experiences then because I'm rarely ever tethered to a wall outlet or battery pack. My laptop battery lasts well beyond 8 hours. When my work is done, I put my laptop to sleep and dock it for the day. Therefore, being tethered to a battery pack or a wall outlet alone with this device makes it an immediate no-go for me. Anyway, I hope it works out for you and I mean that sincerely.

 

[Seeds]

Given some of his other responses this was surprisingly chill for Zuckerberg.

 

[kemal]

He may be right but I still don't like him.

 

[unikzforce]

The moment US put the first man in the moon and then USSR just shut down its man on the moon mission.

the difference is that this USSR ( FB ) has shut down its mission even before apple announcing Vision Pro.

 

[MacWiz_007]

The battery life is an issue. 2 hours isn't enough for sure. Double that would be fair.
But. For long flights. You most likely have something to plug a USB cord into. And if the USB port on the battery can pass through power, and charge. You can at least add another battery to it. Yes, you would have to carry that either in your pocket or bag or something. This will be an issue till we can get better batteries (smaller and more powerful!).

It would be nice if the headset can hold some power, say 5 minutes so you can easy swap batteries.

Weight is another issue. But, looking at it they took all the tech they currently deploy. Same for materials. I'll take this over a plastic box any day.

Agreed. I think there are some huge positives here, but in it's current form I don't see this being widely adopted. I think most people will return them and those who don't hit the return window will have them sitting in their closets collecting dust within 30-60 days after purchase. Not all of course, but the vast majority IMO. In 5-10 years, it could be a different story. I don't think most people want a device strapped to their head, period. That is the problem with the current AR/VR solutions. I think the fantasy of this device will be far different than the reality. And Apple fan fantasies are some of the biggest whoppers. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit it.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

A lot of people are making comparisons to how some people thought of this before iPhone, or iPad came out and that comparison doesn’t shake out.

The iPhone specifically was truly a night and day product. This is not. I think Apple knows that too. Of course Zuckerberg is understating his weariness of the machine, but if anything the high price of it will actually help them out and make their products more attractive, especially because I’m sure so many people had a wait and see approach. I’d be willing to bet psvr2 numbers bump up some also, but no matter what this will continue to be a niche market, now and forever.

The iPhone was at launch seems night and day as a product because of how well it assimilated previous research and new UX on hardware that just became mature enough. It didn’t introduce anything completely new. You can see hints of what would become the iPhone from past work by companies like General Magic and Fingerworks. It seems revolutionary to us now because everyone else started followed in its footsteps and changed the entire industry to multitouch and apps. The vision pro hasn’t been around long enough to be judged one way or the other.

 

[djphat2000]

I agree with a lot of your points. However, when you factor in returns, the AVP will sell nowhere near 1 million units in the first year of release. I'm the never say never type, so I'd give it maybe a 1% chance of Apple selling 1 million of these when returns are factored in. Now, say Apple has this in their stores and online for 3-5 years, with the same price like they always do, then maybe they will sell 1 million units spread out over that timeframe.

Come back in 2025 and we will see. I don't think Apple releases sales numbers (count on devices sold). But, I'm sure someone will figure it out for us.

Looking back at all the Mac's I've owned since 1998. This isn't any more expensive than the majority of them.
They only have to sell another 999,999 of them

 

[Crow_Servo]

I’m gonna guess cell phone providers adopt this tech and break up the cost over 36 months, like they do now with cell phones.

Maybe when cellular is added to the device, so not the first gen model. Possibly a future model. The Apple Watch didn’t gain cellular until Series 3, so you never know.

 

[Dammit Cubs]

i'm not going to lie - i would rather use a 3500 headset than use the meta quest. The quest is literally collecting dust, i won't sign up for the meta connect and the passthrough is trash.

At least with the vision pro, i have can use it for productivity such as external monitor (i'm constantly traveling). I was willing to buy the quest pro at 1400 if it delivered on all these promises, so yes I don't mind spending more. It's alot of money for sure, but it seems to EXACTLY what I have been asking for in a VR / AR for years.

Zuckerberg shouldn't be scared today, he should be happy because Apple has broadened the VR space which will benefit Meta and competition is good. But this is gen0. Once apple figures out that you don't need as much redundancy and to reduce the bill of materials, this thing will get cheaper and cheaper.

 

[4odomi]

I don't like Zuckerberg, but he understands at the core why I dislike this entire concept. "Each demo they showed was a person ALONE on a couch." or something similar.

The device is inherently solipsistic and is bordering on nihilistic/narcissistic.

I do not want a future where we're all sitting alone on a couch or at the lake (who the **** drives to a lake to hang out alone in a headset?) moving our hands around like idiots in some quasi-brain in a vat scenario that is the hilarious real world criticism of Renee Descartes "I think, therefore I exist".

The device is literally just a self-reinforcing solipsism where the user completely becomes the product. You could learn intrinsic behavioral attitudes from this headset and the privacy implications alone were not only not addressed by Apple, they have not been addressed by anyone. Eye movement can reveal health issues, behavioral styles, opinions, emotions, etc.

Then, to top it all off, all I saw were people hanging out with people but not hanging out with people. Like a Vaudevillian parody of the COVID19 draconian stay in place rules becoming normal human behavior. You just put on your jerk off headset and chat with your Tinder date? Instead of actually going out and hanging out in the flesh, like a normal social human being.

Also, the device's core functionality is redundant in that all of its core functions are done much easier, much more convenient, and far less expensive.

Messaging and FaceTime: iPhone. Or Mac. Or Windows PC with a webcam.

Desktop productivity: Solved this with the monitor, which is now lightweight, thin, and cheap. Also, mouse and keyboard are far better Input devices. iPad has touch, another far more intuitive Input mechanism.

Security: FaceID already uses eye scan technology, and retina scan is not necessary, but is a possible evolution.

Media consumption: This is ridiculous that this headset will somehow be better than a large widescreen 4kTV with HDR. Or my iPad. Or my iPhone.

Gaming: I will say this a thousand times....Handheld controllers will always be superior. If you're a PC gamer, ok, keyboard can be useful. But an Xbox or PS5 controller is a far better input device.

So, why am I spending $3499 for a cumbersome helmet when I could buy a 76" 4k HDR TV, 42" Monitor, a mouse and keyboard for $60, a PS5/Xbox for $499, and two extra controllers and still have enough for a MacBook Air M2?

I think you've missed the whole point, but that's ok, it's not for you 😊
On a wider point, it's not technology that takes us away from interaction with other people and being unsociable, it's people not understanding how tech should be used, what for and how long, the other thing wrong with tech is parents introducing/allowing their kids to use it too early and then without proper parental control, why? to have less interaction with their kids for the sake of a bit of piece & quite 😏

 

[4odomi]

Na he’s not scared. He will be a billionaire reguardless.
If the headset was set at $1000 then sure he would be scared. But right now it’s the Bentley of headsets. And 99% of the population can’t afford it.

That would suggest that, 70 million people can afford it, which will make Apple really happy 😊 I suspect, when it launches world wide, not just US & Canada, at least 10 million will be sold

 

[Sevendaymelee]

Buy cheap, buy twice.

Having said that, I'll buy neither.

 

[guzhogi]

I do not see how a headset is better than a computer screen

Only thing, at least for me, that a headset would do better is maybe 3D stuff. Games, architectural modeling, etc. I've never used a headset before so can't say for certain, though

 

[4odomi]

To be fair, I just bought one. Partly because some colleagues have been so enthusiastic about some of the games, but quite a lot because it is a reasonably priced way to try out VR in general first. I am excited for the Vision Pro but hopefully the Quest will give me more confidence that I will like the overall experience before I shell out many UK £££££

If your main interest is games on VR, Vision Pro is not for u, stick with the quest 😊

 

[redbeard331]

He can afford to upgrade his iCloud though

 

[4odomi]

I'll be honest, I don't get the Quest or the Vision Pro. I'm surprised to hear Quest has sold "tens of millions"; I didn't know it was that many.

I can see VR/AR goggles as being compelling for gaming. I can also seeing them being more immersive for movies, but that strikes me more as something that would be interesting to try, like buying a movie ticket, than owning. A family might gather around their TV to watching something on Netflix or Apple TV+ together, but doing that at home with everyone wearing goggles would not only be extremely expensive, but extremely awkward as well.

So again, I get goggles as a video game console, or an extension to one. But I think Zuck is completely wrong when he describes Quest as "social." Okay, you can play online games with others, but the "metaverse" isn't social. It's fake social at best, and more likely, anti-social.

What I mean by this is social is interacting with real people in real places. Not seeing 3D avatars and fantasy portrayals of people that may have little grounding in reality. It seems to me this whole "metaverse" thing, if it amounts to anything at all (and I'm deeply skeptical it will) is a poor substitute for actual social interaction.

That's not an attack on gaming, or watching a movie by yourself, or anything like that. Sometimes, alone time is good and needed. And it's also not a criticism of Quest in particular; having a FaceTime call where you see others' faces, but they only see an animated image of you because you've got a computer strapped to your face, also seems fake social to me.

I'm not saying that everything we do has to involve real, face-to-face social interaction. I am saying that building or spending time in "metaverses" as a substitute for real social interaction, and believing this is social interaction, could lead to isolation, loneliness, and anti-social behavior.

Fortunately, I think that this entire notion of a metaverse is BS and not going to find a wide audience, so I'm not all that worried about people giving up real social interaction for manufactured experiences behind a face computer.

The only way Meta has sold 20 million quest headsets, is if Zuckenburg bought 19 mil 🤣
Nothing that comes out of Meta is true!

 

[TechnoMonk]

That was the last phone I had before getting an iPhone 3G. Worked well, and I liked the keyboard on it. Thin and light. But, the iPhone was way better.

Yep. It was well made. Microsoft muzzled through corporate world with exchange integration and cheaper option to blackberry. Balmer never thought Employees would force corporate to incorporate BYOD iPhones.

 

[4odomi]

My understanding is that Quest devices have something called "Oculus Link", so you can connect them to a PC using a cable and use them as normal VR gear. To play SteamVR games, for example.

The Apple thing, on the other hand, I have no idea what I'd do with it.

I don't need it to watch movies, I have an 83" OLED and an Atmos surround sound system.

I don't Facetime.

I can't work with it, I'm a software developer.

I don't like Apple Arcade. I'm more of a WoW/Doom/Diablo kind of player.

Literally no idea what this Apple product is for. If they gave it the option of connecting it to a PC and use SteamVR, I'd say, it's an overpriced but cool product. As it is, I have no clue.

You're a PC gamer, we get it, it's not for u 🤣

 

[4odomi]

Considering over 25,000 developers work at Meta, I can guarantee, Mark will be buying a Vision Pro for everyone of them and they will Xerox Alto the hell out of it to build something similar. This is something I was thinking since the launch of Vision Pro, all the tech companies are gonna be buying up most of the Vision Pro's which should make Apple a tidy sum. Not to mention the employees buying for their spouses. Apple will easily sell million of these in 2024. Everyone else here on Macrumors is likely gonna have a hard time getting one.

Apple will sell as many as they can produce in 2024 IMO, I'd say at least 10 mil (unless they can't produce that many) which would be very unlike Apple