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That kind of makes me chuckle. Okay, your teams explored and "thought of" these ideas, but did they deliver on them? It's like someone saying in response to the unveiling of the iPhone, "I thought of that too!!" Okay, but did you make it? No, Apple did. Someone needs to tell him you don't get credit for "thinking of" what would make an amazing product, you get credit for executing on it.
Meta has different goals for VR. He’s saying that Apple has implemented things they had considered but dismissed with respect to the use cases they are aiming at. Meaning that Apple hasn’t invented anything new that would target Meta’s VR use cases. He’s probably honestly relieved that Apple has a different vision for what AR/VR should be.
 
“More importantly, our vision for the metaverse and presence is fundamentally social.”

I didn’t see this vision mentioned during the Quest 3 launch. In fact metaverse wasn’t even mentioned a single time. Gaming was the focus of Quest 3 which isn’t very social. In reality I don’t think he will mention metaverse again unless he wants the stock trading below $100 again.
 
Too stiff a price for me, but I imagine there are countless scenarios where a device like this could be fantastically useful. For example, imagine an architect being able to design and demonstrate a photorealistic 3D environment with one of these things. Engineering component design and visualisation could be much easier. Virtual tours of just about anywhere on Earth. I only thought about it for a minute but I imagine there will be many applications for this device.
Yah and Apple's 'Vision' device doesn't do anything differently for those use cases. I don't care for VR all that much to be honest. For similar reasons like 3D glasses, i'd never use it at least not for any extended period of time; uncomfortable since I wear glasses. I mean, yeah, it'd be cool to tune into something like courtside seats in NBA game or watching F1 from the drivers perspective LIVE... but doing that for any more than 30 minutes gets exhausting.

For me personally, I'd love to experience an up-coming game called 'Titanic: Honor and Glory' a VR game that recreates the entire ship, inside and out in as great detail as possible (right down to the exact cutlery used) including the surrounding environment of the dock in Belfast. I'd LOVE to experience the scale of the Titanic. Anyway, if your intersted:


But that's the only thing Id use VR for... I'd rather buy the game and rent a VR headset for a week or two.
 
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Cmon dude. I have a Meta 2 and it’s a toy compared to this.
If I’m going to strap something to my face, I’d rather it be a toy than allows me to do things I can’t do with any other computer, rather than email and spreadsheets attached to my head.
I’d be more interested in John Carmack’s opinion than Zuck
John Carmack was pushing even harder for cheaper and lighter headsets, which is basically the opposite of Apple’s approach.
I’m very curious what he honestly means by the concept of the apple device being isolating, is his intention for people to walk around outside wearing the Quest 3?
I’ve had several social experiences with my VR setup… playing poker around a table with friends, sitting beside them in a virtual movie theater, rock climbing with them, sculpting worlds with them, and, of course, shooting them.


High latency make many nauseous after prolonged use of existing VR headsets. Vision Pro's latency is 12ms.
This is actually one area where all current headsets are very good. Also, latency can’t be boiled down to a single number. Like headset rotation is usually essentially zero, because it’s easy to predict where the head will be, and there is usually a last moment warp of each frame before it is sent to the displays.
 
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In a revealing chat at Apple Park, Good Morning America asked Cook if the Vision Pro is something that "the average person will be able to afford". Cook replied: "I don’t know. I think people will make different choices depending upon their current financial situation and so forth," he said.
 
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Whoa? Zükebro, I don’t read you. Very poor sound quality. What did you say?
 
I had not grasped this when I made my comment but I see what he means now. I think there is room for these kinds of spaces (see VRChat, Rec Room) but the rancid amounts of commercialization that is opened up by them make me wary. I prefer Apple's approach where the default OS does not go into this use case, but I presume that third party software will be able to.
I agree that it’s best left to third parties. Meta’s vision is true to William Gibson’s vision of the matrix, the OG vision that inspired all the rest (like Neil Stephen’s Snow Crash or the Matrix films or the Battlestar Galactica prequel Caprica). Apple’s vision is a bit less specific, which may or may not work to their advantage.
 
Meta would have to straight-up fire almost all of its workforce, and aggressively poach replacements for them from the hardcore silicon engineering, electronics, and 3D graphics industry, just to begin catching up to the extremely strong custom hardware/firmware/software integration that Apple just demoed, and after all that they wouldn't be able to manufacture the thing at scale. Zuckerberg knows he's stuck making plastic knockoffs for the next FIVE YEARS.

He's going to keep that project limping along as a "low cost-to-entry" toy, and dive headfirst into creating a software offering for Apple's headset. He always saw the hardware as a means to an end anyway, which is why 3D hardware gurus like Carmack and the other people who used to work for Oculus always had an uneasy relationship with him.

Zuckerberg's "vision" brings nothing new to the table, except some retrograde vision of the adorable cyberspace meeting rooms that William Gibson was already writing about back in the 80's. Sometimes I wonder if he even gives a crap about the company or its direction, and truly is just messing around at this point, or maybe trying to recreate something he missed in childhood. Regardless, his "social" vision completely and perhaps deliberately misses the point. The "killer app" is niche and is right in front of most people: AR/VR headsets are on the verge of becoming the new essential engineering and artistic tool, not a replacement for the current emperor of communication tools (the smartphone).

I mean, I don't know if you've stopped to think about this, but the flat rectangular screen was a recreation of an earlier form of information display: A piece of paper on a desk. We've all been working with information confined to rectangular screens for 40 YEARS, to the point where no one even questions how else information could be conveyed. Even in an AR product, the first thing people try to do is draw a f*&$ rectangle somewhere in it, and stick their information in there.

Most working people don't actually want their information confined to a rectangle. What sort of flexibility can freedom from that UI design paradigm do for ... Musicians? 3D modelers? Architects? Civil engineers? Geologists? Archeologists/paleontologists? Security personnel monitoring crowds? Surveyors? Tattoo artists? Physics, history, geography teachers? A doctor looking at an MRI? A nurse doing an ultrasound? A physical therapist gauging the movement of a limb over time? A military sniper working in the dark? A chef following steps to prepare a meal? Anyone who wants to watch anyone else accomplish a task through their own eyes and offer visual guidance along the way?

Why wave a studfinder vaguely at a wall, when you can bluetooth-enable it, upgrade the firmware and the sensor, and then use it one time all over your house to generate a map of every beam, pipe, and wire in your home, then hand that to the electrician/plumber? And never miss again when you put in a nail? Got a rat problem? Rent a handful of stick-on high quality microphones and place them around the house where the indicators in your headset show, and let them tune and listen for a while. Oh look, now you can almost literally see the rat running around in the roof. High-performance computing and sensing is mandatory here, but my point is, so is the interface. There's be no point to doing this in a little rectangle; it would suck.

Same for the uses above; same for a hundred other uses for information outside rectangles, things people haven't even thought of. We're just getting started with this. And guess what!

None of it has jack squat to do with Zuckerberg's vision of "socializing!" I honestly don't know what's wrong in his head. It's like he's been shown the word's first car, driving on the word's first road, and all he can think is, "hey these seats are comfy, what a great place for people to get together and talk!" Idiot.

Yeah, people do sometimes have nice conversations sitting together in a car, with family or friends... But that's not WHY they're in a CAR, and as soon as they get done using it for what it's for, THEY GET OUT.

I think in a couple of years he's going to have to announce some kind of "partnership" with a Chinese company, or perhaps with Samsung (if Google doesn't beat him to it) to make a much higher spec version of the Quest, because when Apple doesn't have a true competitor in their price bracket, the world is not in a natural state, and it is necessary to invent one.
 
In a revealing chat at Apple Park, Good Morning America asked Cook if the Vision Pro is something that "the average person will be able to afford". Cook replied: "I don’t know. I think people will make different choices depending upon their current financial situation and so forth," he said.
I find it very odd that they chose that for his answer. (Since of course this was scripted...) I guess they didn't want to unofficially announce a non-pro version so soon? Just a bizarre PR answer, came across like someone dodging a question in court.
 
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I'm not sure Tim Cook would disagree with anything Zuckerberg said. Their philosophies are fundamentally different. Apple is trying to change computing. They are not trying to create an accessible VR network purely for social engagement. I think Cook would agree that the Vision Pro doesn't really compete with the Quest. The price point alone makes that crystal clear. But Apple is betting that the Vision Pro will be successful because of the things it can do, and that the Quest doesn't ever want to attempt to do. I mean, that's fair enough.
 
I don't like Zuckerberg, but he understands at the core why I dislike this entire concept. "Each demo they showed was a person ALONE on a couch." or something similar.

The device is inherently solipsistic and is bordering on nihilistic/narcissistic.

I do not want a future where we're all sitting alone on a couch or at the lake (who the **** drives to a lake to hang out alone in a headset?) moving our hands around like idiots in some quasi-brain in a vat scenario that is the hilarious real world criticism of Renee Descartes "I think, therefore I exist".

The device is literally just a self-reinforcing solipsism where the user completely becomes the product. You could learn intrinsic behavioral attitudes from this headset and the privacy implications alone were not only not addressed by Apple, they have not been addressed by anyone. Eye movement can reveal health issues, behavioral styles, opinions, emotions, etc.

Then, to top it all off, all I saw were people hanging out with people but not hanging out with people. Like a Vaudevillian parody of the COVID19 draconian stay in place rules becoming normal human behavior. You just put on your jerk off headset and chat with your Tinder date? Instead of actually going out and hanging out in the flesh, like a normal social human being.

Also, the device's core functionality is redundant in that all of its core functions are done much easier, much more convenient, and far less expensive.

Messaging and FaceTime: iPhone. Or Mac. Or Windows PC with a webcam.

Desktop productivity: Solved this with the monitor, which is now lightweight, thin, and cheap. Also, mouse and keyboard are far better Input devices. iPad has touch, another far more intuitive Input mechanism.

Security: FaceID already uses eye scan technology, and retina scan is not necessary, but is a possible evolution.

Media consumption: This is ridiculous that this headset will somehow be better than a large widescreen 4kTV with HDR. Or my iPad. Or my iPhone.

Gaming: I will say this a thousand times....Handheld controllers will always be superior. If you're a PC gamer, ok, keyboard can be useful. But an Xbox or PS5 controller is a far better input device.

So, why am I spending $3499 for a cumbersome helmet when I could buy a 76" 4k HDR TV, 42" Monitor, a mouse and keyboard for $60, a PS5/Xbox for $499, and two extra controllers and still have enough for a MacBook Air M2?
 
Oh, silly Zucky. You can't compare your crappy product to a much different one with the only thing to say is it is more expensive. While you are true, there is no comparison whatsoever with your technology. Now granted if all you want is a pair of goggles, then you don't need anything more. But simply no comparison, other than wow, they cost more, but they are way better in every way.

Now, if your point is that the Apple VisionPro is way over specced and that is why it costs so much. Point taken
 
If they were smart, they would do this. But even if they do, I don't think he could just walk on stage on today, June 8th, and say "We screwed up. Time to go back to the drawing board!" Especially after the flop of the Quest Pro, they can't really afford to abandon and restart their plans openly right now. That didn't work out well for Sega.

SEGA's console division died because they got cocky and released the Sega Saturn too early to try to beat PlayStation to market, which meant it's launch lineup was nonexistent, rushed, and retailers boycotted them since they left them without notice that they were gonna do this and limited to only a few retailers.
 
As much as I don't like him, he didn't lie and made a few good points.

People in this thread tend to get very defensive, but he didn't criticize Vision Pro, just said that meta had different values and vision when it came to designing such device and that's it...
That’s true, but let’s come down to brass tax here. Meta’s *business model* revolves around data collection and advertising.

Zuck’s “social” focus translates in business terms to having a giant pool of data to draw from.

Apple is clearly heading in a different direction by doing as much as possible on device, and they’ve explicitly threatened Meta’s business model for their future vision by locking down eye tracking on device. The reason? Pupil response to images can be used both to collect information on your response to ads, and from the more sinister side of things can therefore be used to shape behavior/emotion/desire for *whatever* is being advertised.

There’s absolutely no way that direct manipulation of the human mind should be legal, but it’s the *business model* behind the idea of the Metaverse.
 
The -iPhone- doesn’t do anything our blackberry (or Nokia or Windows phone) can’t do. It’s not like Apple reinvented physics. You send email, look at the web and make phone calls. So what that it’s full screen - you give up real, tactile keys. The iPhone is nothing to worry about.
It's good to bring up something like this because I feel this is exactly what Vision Pro critics are missing:

Let's say fully automatic espresso machines where a completely new thing in 2023 -All of them made espresso, but none of them mastered all the aspects of brewing great espresso at home.

The company that can look at all of those almost-great-but-missing-just-these-few-things espresso machines, figure out what's essential, what's not necessary, and bring it together in one espresso machine that does all of them great is the winner (and can also get away with charging much more than the competition).

Apple does not need to do anything that other headsets cannot do to win the AR/VR headset game.

All Apple needs to do is to perfect all the things that the others couldn't and then bring it together in one highly polished, cohesive product.

From what most testers are reporting, it seems Vision Pro is this product.
 
We can hate on LeZuck all we want but he has a valid point. He was probably scared Apple would make some revolutionary use for it (which they would have to copy) but in the end there’s nothing new. Just done much better. I think developers is what will make Vision Pro shine
According to most reviewers the eye-tracking is pretty "magical". That is something that Meta does NOT do.
 
As much as I don't like him, he didn't lie and made a few good points.

People in this thread tend to get very defensive, but he didn't criticize Vision Pro, just said that meta had different values and vision when it came to designing such device and that's it...
It’s easier to make products kore accessible when the user is the real product.
 
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