Mark Zuckerberg: WhatsApp Is 'Far More Private and Secure' Than iMessage

[Xiaojohn]

Impossible WhatsApp have better encrytion than iMessages:

iCloud data security overview - Apple Support

iCloud uses strong security methods, employs strict policies to protect your information, and leads the industry in using privacy-preserving security technologies like end-to-end encryption for your data.

support.apple.com

 

[Xiaojohn]

Blind fanboys who consider everything coming from X as false or offensive somehow without a basic understanding of the messaging system they defend… iMessage is the same money grab as WA, just less secure and less interoperable and with securirty broken between platforms.
You really think IOS is ultra private?. What a joke. Check all the trackers that Safari allows, etc. have you seen the VPN data leak issue from IOS? And that IOS stock apps send data to mothership openly skipping the VPN?.
You will say “compared to Google it is much better…”, is that an argument?. Is like a robber saying he is less bad than a killer and therefore should not be judged so sternly. Both are bad!.

trackers are from the website itself...not safari built-in

 

[jntdroid]

So if I don't use Facebook, does that make WA more secure for me? 🤔 (i.e. the trackers, if they exist, have nowhere to go with my keywords)

 

[Velli]

I have multiple screenshots as evidence of Whats app mining chat messages and then displaying Facebook ads relevant only to conversations I have had in the Whats App chat. Things so obscure and unique to 'one-off' chat comments that the only way Facebook could consider displaying a recommendation for service is if Whats App was mining my data and sharing it with Facebook.

The only real option is to use Signal if you are concerned about privacy.

I think you are underestimating modern marketing algorithms. We are not as unique as we think we are. They don’t need to mine the actual chat data. They know you communicated with a person. If this person liked or searched for a topic, they will now make a statistical bet that you are also interested.

To me, this concept is even scarier than simply mining our communication for keywords, because even if you don’t have a Facebook profile, Facebook knows who you are, who your friends are, and what interests you have. You can’t opt out.

 

[Unami]

Whether that's true or not, that's why everyone and his aunt in the civilized world has switched from whatsapp to signal over the last years.

 

[Piggie]

The majority of posts in this thread worry me, and reflect a worry I have about the way society is going right now.
It seems all about bias and opinion as opposed to facts.

Call me old fashioned if you like, but I don't care who is it that makes a statement. I'm only interested in if it's true or not.

With most posters basically saying I hate Mark and Facebook, hence this is not true is a sad position to find ourselves in.
My opinion of Mark or Tim, for me has nothing to do with whether this story/article is true or not.

I'd much rather was actually discuss and bring out actual facts about the story, than just posting how much you don't like someone as that achieves nothing.

 

[jcr]

WhatsApp is "far more private and secure" than Apple's iMessage platform, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has claimed in a new Instagram post.

In a post sharing a Meta billboard in New York City promoting WhatsApp over SMS or iMessage, Zuckerberg said WhatsApp is far better for privacy-concerned users thanks to its end-to-end encryption, ability to set messages to disappear after a set period of time, and its availability across multiple platforms.
Apple and Meta have had an ongoing rivalry for some time, with the tension between the two tech giants growing more recently. Meta has accused Apple of hurting small businesses and its ads business by introducing measures that allow iPhone users to opt out of tracking in apps and websites across other websites.

In a meeting with staff, Zuckerberg said Meta's competition with Apple is "very deep" and "philosophical," pointing to the increasingly competitive AR/VR space which Apple is expected to officially enter with a headset early next year.

Article Link: Mark Zuckerberg: WhatsApp Is 'Far More Private and Secure' Than iMessage

I'll take privacy advice from Zuckerberg the same day I take investment advice from Bernie Madoff.

 

[_Spinn_]

Yeah I don't think so.

 

[msackey]

It's owned and run by Facebook, ergo, no.

Ditto! I do not consider Whatsapp to be secured at all for exactly that reason. There might be other reasons, but the fact that it's owned by Facebook means it's not trustworthy.

Zuckerberg is infamous for saying essentially we all want our private lives to be put online and made public; he said this some time in the early 2000s. Sure, he may have changed his opinion now but I don't recall him ever publicly retracting that narrative.

 

[pauloregan]

Is he correct though?

I assume he is talking about someone texting from a non imessage phone into the imessage phone.

 

[bousozoku]

He's right in that you have no real encryption from iOS to Android in iMessage, but there isn't any reason to trust anything he says.

 

[SW3029]

Source please...I'll wait.

No need to wait. You could have done a simple Google search and found I was right immediately.

See here: "WhatsApp has no ability to see the content of messages or listen to calls that are end-to-end encrypted. That’s because the encryption and decryption of messages sent and received on WhatsApp occurs entirely on your device. Before a message ever leaves your device, it's secured with a cryptographic lock, and only the recipient has the keys. In addition, the keys change with every single message that's sent."

And here: "Since your device generates the private key, WhatsApp never has access to it."

And, you know, see their freaking white paper on how encryption on WA works.

Pure laziness aside, the thing that really bugs me about this is the rabid way in which Apple fans on this forum just hate what is said because someone they don't like says it.

WhatsApp IS more private than Apple Messages now.

I like Apple as much as the next guy, but if Apple fans think the company is the best at everything and has no room for improvement over its competitors, Apple WILL stop making privacy improvements we need. And yes, I despise Meta. But I also know Apple isn't perfect and there are some features other companies do better.

But honestly man, I bet you're not a kid so please never ask for "sources please" when you can take 10 seconds and search for them yourself.

 

[Hurda]

Does anyone know anyone who can remind the minds at Google that ALL OF THEIR ANDROID OS started off as an iOS rip off ?!

No. You can argue that they took... inspiration from iOS after it was unveiled, but before that, Android looked and was designed significantly different.

Signal requires a phone number to even use the darn thing. That is a dead giveaway that it's not secure, and not even imessage requires that.

If you're using an iPhone, you need SMS messaging to activate your phone number with iMessage and FaceTime. Depending on your carrier, you might be charged for this SMS.

If you can’t turn on or sign in to iMessage or FaceTime on your iPhone - Apple Support

To use either iMessage or FaceTime, you need to activate them on your iPhone. If you see an error message when you try to activate, follow these steps.

support.apple.com

 

[Jason J. Schneider]

Interesting thing. I think he managed the performance to go lower than any politician in terms of credibility.

But I would like to point one thing out. WhatsApp, at some point in time (very important), did implement the Signal Protocol. So the E2EE that WhatsApp has is quite good and really strong. Now, that being said.... we don't know what really happened since 2016 and in what way Facebook (Meta) changed the source code. We don't really know exactly what metadata they collect from interactions, groups, calls and what data they can infer from what they collect.

Having said that, I see Signal Protocol much powerful than what Apple cooked for iMessage. Signal Protocol can guarantee:

• confidentiality
• integrity
• authentication
• participant consistency
• destination validation
• forward secrecy
• backward secrecy (a.k.a. future secrecy)
• causality preservation
• message unlinkability
• message repudiation
• participation repudiation
• asynchronicity

Also, from here:

[...] In September 2015, Matthew Green noted that, because iMessage does not display key fingerprints for out-of-band verification, users are unable to verify that a man-in-the-middle attack has not occurred. The post also noted that iMessage uses RSA key exchange. This means that, as opposed to what EFF's scorecard claims, iMessage does not feature forward secrecy.

I don't work with cryptography, but I tend to think that, even if Facebook (with WhatsApp) collects things around the Signal Protocol, mining metadata, the protocol in itself could still be more robust than what Apple has done. For those who wonder, here is how Apple handles its cryptography.

Again, I am speculating here, if somebody else knows better, can correct me.

 

[Pearple]

I will never use something that was created by Facebook/Meta/Zuckerberg

In fact, he can go to hell.

 

[black_knight]

He's right - with iMessage dropping you into SMS for most of your contacts, it's more secure to go to an app that can end-to-end encrypt.

Question is, convincing all your friends and family to use WhatsApp? Not happening in the States. We all are used to our default texting apps.

If an iMessage “drops” into SMS, then it’s not an iMessage. Therefore, he’s wrong.

 

[Blakjack]

WhatsApp is "far more private and secure" than Apple's iMessage platform, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has claimed in a new Instagram post.

In a post sharing a Meta billboard in New York City promoting WhatsApp over SMS or iMessage, Zuckerberg said WhatsApp is far better for privacy-concerned users thanks to its end-to-end encryption, ability to set messages to disappear after a set period of time, and its availability across multiple platforms.
Apple and Meta have had an ongoing rivalry for some time, with the tension between the two tech giants growing more recently. Meta has accused Apple of hurting small businesses and its ads business by introducing measures that allow iPhone users to opt out of tracking in apps and websites across other websites.

In a meeting with staff, Zuckerberg said Meta's competition with Apple is "very deep" and "philosophical," pointing to the increasingly competitive AR/VR space which Apple is expected to officially enter with a headset early next year.

Article Link: Mark Zuckerberg: WhatsApp Is 'Far More Private and Secure' Than iMessage

Being #1 in the privacy battle is pointless when trying to be the “go to” text message platform. You think the average user cares about text message privacy? So, good for you Zuckerberg. Whoopty doo!

 

[JoseyWales369]

WEll... Mark Zuckerberg says it's safe so we all just gotta keep trusting him right guys? Obey like the bitches he thinks we all are?

 

[imnotthewalrus]

No need to wait. You could have done a simple Google search and found I was right immediately.

See here: "WhatsApp has no ability to see the content of messages or listen to calls that are end-to-end encrypted. That’s because the encryption and decryption of messages sent and received on WhatsApp occurs entirely on your device. Before a message ever leaves your device, it's secured with a cryptographic lock, and only the recipient has the keys. In addition, the keys change with every single message that's sent."

And here: "Since your device generates the private key, WhatsApp never has access to it."

And, you know, see their freaking white paper on how encryption on WA works.

Pure laziness aside, the thing that really bugs me about this is the rabid way in which Apple fans on this forum just hate what is said because someone they don't like says it.

WhatsApp IS more private than Apple Messages now.

I like Apple as much as the next guy, but if Apple fans think the company is the best at everything and has no room for improvement over its competitors, Apple WILL stop making privacy improvements we need. And yes, I despise Meta. But I also know Apple isn't perfect and there are some features other companies do better.

But honestly man, I bet you're not a kid so please never ask for "sources please" when you can take 10 seconds and search for them yourself.

Thank you for your "kind" response...

 

[Bustycat]

What is your messaging service of choice? In the USA everything is based on phone numbers so it's either SMS or iMessage because t's just easy.

It's very difficult to convince people they need to download a special app because it's more private. Most people don't care about their messages being private unless they're cheating on their spouse or doing something that they don't want to get into legal trouble for. Messages are like hey what's up are we going out tonight or Hey the boss says you need to come in early today to work on a project. Sure it's possible if someone intercepted those messages they could use social engineering to get something from you but most people aren't that high value of a target.

I know someone is going to misinterpret what I'm saying as privacy doesn't matter but that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is most people don't take it seriously to the point they want to encrypt their messages. At least that's from my personal experience from talking to people of all age groups. Younger people are more knowledgeable but just as careless

Very few people in Taiwan use WhatsApp or iMessage as most people don’t even know WhatsApp, and iMessage is very inconvenient for us to communicate with Android users. I also have mentioned many times in MacRumors that our government discourages using iMessage for the overwhelming scam issue, but nobody else in MacRumors treated it seriously.

In reality we can choose what IM apps we want to install but we can’t remove what we should install. I hate LINE— unstable, poorly designed, bloated, outdated, stingy..., but I can’t remove as families, friends, colleagues, classmates, etc. use it. Many people use Facebook Messenger too but it is just slightly better.

I know there are many Signal fans in MacRumors and they hate Telegram so much, but at least there are more people in Taiwan willing to try Telegram now, and its privacy is already better than most of major competitors. Most people in Taiwan don’t know Signal either.

 

[black_knight]

You may want to read this:

Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn’t stored by Apple.

iCloud data security overview - Apple Support

iCloud uses strong security methods, employs strict policies to protect your information, and leads the industry in using privacy-preserving security technologies like end-to-end encryption for your data.

support.apple.com

Apple just needs to encrypt all iCloud backups using on device keys. That would include encrypting the key that protects Messages.

Then there would be no wiggle room like this.

So, in other words…If you have iCloud backups turned on currently, but then turn it off, only messages going forward will be unable to be read by Apple? Previous messages that were backed up to iCloud would be readable?

 

[George Dawes]

I trust WhatscrApp about as much as I trust Fakebook and that Zuckerberk weirdo

Never had a problem with iMessage ever .

 

[cmcbhi]

WhatsApp is "far more private and secure" than Apple's iMessage platform, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has claimed in a new Instagram post.

In a post sharing a Meta billboard in New York City promoting WhatsApp over SMS or iMessage, Zuckerberg said WhatsApp is far better for privacy-concerned users thanks to its end-to-end encryption, ability to set messages to disappear after a set period of time, and its availability across multiple platforms.
Apple and Meta have had an ongoing rivalry for some time, with the tension between the two tech giants growing more recently. Meta has accused Apple of hurting small businesses and its ads business by introducing measures that allow iPhone users to opt out of tracking in apps and websites across other websites.

In a meeting with staff, Zuckerberg said Meta's competition with Apple is "very deep" and "philosophical," pointing to the increasingly competitive AR/VR space which Apple is expected to officially enter with a headset early next year.

Article Link: Mark Zuckerberg: WhatsApp Is 'Far More Private and Secure' Than iMessage

If The Zuck is selling, I ain't buying.
He's selling my data if Im such a "Dumb ****".

 

[rubaxter]

All I can say is Zuckerberg has a quasi-point PURELY BY ACCIDENT, and not through any decision by actual Facebook management or programmers.

Only use WhatsApp for x-platform with a very heterogeneous crowd of casual recipients who only use WhatsApp.

"Facebook free" and using an inherited iPhone Xs after ditching the Note 9 bought at the same time.

 

[russell_314]

Very few people in Taiwan use WhatsApp or iMessage as most people don’t even know WhatsApp, and iMessage is very inconvenient for us to communicate with Android users. I also have mentioned many times in MacRumors that our government discourages using iMessage for the overwhelming scam issue, but nobody else in MacRumors treated it seriously.

In reality we can choose what IM apps we want to install but we can’t remove what we should install. I hate LINE— unstable, poorly designed, bloated, outdated, stingy..., but I can’t remove as families, friends, colleagues, classmates, etc. use it. Many people use Facebook Messenger too but it is just slightly better.

I know there are many Signal fans in MacRumors and they hate Telegram so much, but at least there are more people in Taiwan willing to try Telegram now, and its privacy is already better than most of major competitors. Most people in Taiwan don’t know Signal either.

I’ve heard some bad things about Telegram, so I’m not too sure about it. From my understanding the encryption is not good.

I’m surprised people don’t use WeChat. It’s probably not as secure but it’s really convenient.