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Marvel Cinematic Universe Discussion

They cancelled Gambit. Yes, old news, still... I really like him in X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009).
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Gambit (film)

Gambit was an upcoming film that fell into development and would have been the fourteenth film in the X-Men franchise. After Disney purchased Fox, the film was removed from the release schedule and subsequently cancelled. To be added Channing Tatum as Remy LeBeau/Gambit Léa Seydoux as Bella...
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@Huntn I do not think Carol Danvers was too powerful in her own film (That has long been an argument about Doctor Strange in the comics. Also why he lost his powers & title and keeps starting over.)

Carol was barely in Endgame so I cannot say much about that.

There are ways to avoid the Deus Ex Machina character trope, and I think the MCU has been successful in avoiding that by keeping the characters very grounded and "human."

Gambit was one of the better things about that Wolverine movie, but you never know what Disney might do now.
 
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kazmac said:
@Huntn I do not think Carol Danvers was too powerful in her own film (That has long been an argument about Doctor Strange in the comics. Also why he lost his powers & title and keeps starting over.)

Carol was barely in Endgame so I cannot say much about that.

There are ways to avoid the Deus Ex Machina character trope, and I think the MCU has been successful in avoiding that by keeping the characters very grounded and "human."

Gambit was one of the better things about that Wolverine movie, but you never know what Disney might do now.
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You don’t think she was too powerful in Captain Marvel?
To be clear, I’m not saying she should not be that powerful, just asking if that is how powerful she is supposed to be? :) In CM, she was an un-stoppable wrecking ball that made Ronin run away. You do remember what it took in Guardians of the Galaxy for the Guardians, reavers and all of Nova Corp to take on Ronin, yes? I realize he was in a bigger ship at Xander, but Capt Marvel has shown she can fly through ships ripping them to pieces without breaking a sweat. :D
 
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Huntn said:
You don’t think she was too powerful in Captain Marvel?
To be clear, I’m not saying she should not be that powerful, just asking if that is how powerful she is supposed to be? :) In CM, she was an un-stoppable wrecking ball that made Ronin run away. You do remember what it took in Guardians of the Galaxy for the Guardians, reavers and all of Nova Corp to take on Ronin, yes? I realize he was in a bigger ship at Xander, but Capt Marvel has shown she can fly throw ships ripping them to pieces without breaking a sweat. :D
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I don’t know how powerful Carol is supposed to be, but, like Doctor Strange, her power levels do not strike me as complete Deus Ex Machina.

Ronan also did not have the Power Stone in CM, but once he had it in Guardians, it made him far more formidable as an adversary.

Yes, I do remember Guardians of the Galaxy, as mentioned above, Ronan also had the Power Stone then, so that explained why so many were needed to stop him.
 
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decafjava said:
Guys let me tell you a secret that may help you resolve if a character is too powerful or not:

It's all made up

Tongue firmly in cheek. :p
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Of course. The imagination station. :)

My comic geek rarely cares about this, but felt compelled to answer the question. :pSo now I will forget, because I want my imagination percolating again instead.
 
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decafjava said:
Guys let me tell you a secret that may help you resolve if a character is too powerful or not:

It's all made up

Tongue firmly in cheek. :p
Click to expand...
Except in any Superhero ecosystem, relative strength is creative choice with an established scale defining characters. You can stop here or continue. :D

Now besides, giving many of the humans the equivalent of super human abilities like Hawkeye‘s uncanny ability with a bow, or Black Widow’s superior fighting ability, they tend to also bequeath these characters with an unusual ability to absorb physical punishment. Actually I’m not sure if either of them or Falcon would be categorixpzed as mutants, just humans with skills. Falcon, might just be a human with high tech gear similiar to Ant Man. All of Stark’s powers are by virtue of his suit. Dr Strange has marshaled mystical magic which includes some mystical armor.

Now when we move into mutant territory, it becomes more complicated. You always have to ask, would a projectile like a bullet reach the body though the shielding, and if it did would it damage the individual? For most of these characters, the answer is yes. But, Hulk appears to be physically immune to damage, bullets have no effect.

Also, frankly I had some issues thinking about Thor which moves us into God territory, when it comes to mortality, and the ability to be physically damaged, although we saw Hella remove one of his eyes. This can be described as God vs God Combat which would include celestials like Thanos and Ego, which infers other powers. Yet Ego had a physical brain like organ which could be destroyed by a physical blast. And Thanos’s arm was chopped off, but did that require a Super Axe wielded by a God? Yes, it might have. ;)

So, anyway, the creative rules at play in Marvel characters specific abilities are sometimes hard to compare and that’s ok. The reason I commented on Carol Danvers is that she is unique in having absorbed the power of the Tesseract and functions as basically an indestructible force. Her performance in Captain Marvel seems to puts her in the top tier of powerful beings.
 
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@Huntn No doubt the Hydra Red Room (Russian training ground) did recreate a super soldier serum of a sort for Bucky (they had him steal a superior version from Howard Stark in Civil War.)

The Red Room could have synthesized a fascimile for the Black Widows, but I digress.

Speaking of Black Widow...final trailer right here. All kinds of awesome right there.
 
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kazmac said:
@Huntn No doubt the Hydra Red Room (Russian training ground) did recreate a super soldier serum of a sort for Bucky (they had him steal a superior version from Howard Stark in Civil War.)

The Red Room could have synthesized a fascimile for the Black Widows, but I digress.

Speaking of Black Widow...final trailer right here. All kinds of awesome right there.
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Looking forward to it. It would be good to know if she is enhanced. :)
 
Regarding the ranking of Marvel Universe Characters, there are tons of rankings online, search “Marvel Character tiers” snd look at images for a page full of charts, but most of these are fan created opinion charts, some debatable. There are so many opinions about the ranking order of Marvel Characters by power/abilities, I wonder if there is a clear concise and somewhat official list that ranks these characters by their powers, whether that be physical or magical, mortal or basically immortal. I’ll look around and see what I can find. :D
 
Huntn said:
I just thought she was an amazing athlete. :)
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When you're <possibly> trained by super soldiers* (Winter Soldier, possibly the Red Guardian, though they are painting him as a master thief and brawler), it's possible you work a lot harder to do those amazing athlete things.

Now the character supposively had some sort of life extension serum in the comics, but I never followed Natasha closely enough to know exactly what that was.

*To wit, the movie's villain, Taskmaster
(the adversary with the metal skull mask who has photogenic reflexes) is "training" the new crop of Black Widows
soooooo...we could find out a lot more about Natasha and their history.

** and... I still think the Cap/Avengers screenwriters seriously dropped the ball in Civil War
by killing off the other Winter Soldiers.
 
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In the Marvel Universe who are the gifted athletes/humans (versus mutants/biologically enhanced/altered)?
As an adult, I read the first 10 years of the X-Men comics about 25 years ago, so I am rusty and not up to date with the latest developments in that world. But off the top of my head, I’d throw out a couple of names:

Hawkeye: Just a very talented archer, a gifted athlete or possible so talented as in practically never missing could be categorized as “super”? https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Hawkeye
Iron Man: Tony Stark, brilliant human being whose abilities are soley based on technology he developed.
Falcon: Technical augment. Sam Wilson https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Falcon's_Wings
Dr Strange: Stephen Strange: master of the mystical arts, can arguable be called an enhanced ability but is a different category from those who are mutants, who have been altered by serums or exposure to radiation.


Black Widow: I found one link that said she was just human, but according to this link she is enhanced as @kazmac indicated. :)
 
A pretty good list, but there are several errors in this list that I spotted. First, IMO, Captain America should go first if we are talking chronological order, even if he wakes up 70 years later at the very end of the movie because this is when the Tesseract first appears and it is not presented in the typical way a flashback is presented. I accept disagreement about this point, but I think overall the narrative flows smoother if you watch this first. :)

Second, Captain Marvel another movie about the Tesseract set in 1995 clearly goes before Thor, a movie set in 2011. You might ask how did Mar-Vell end up with the Tesseract after Howard Stark found it in the ocean? My understanding based on online reading, correct me if I’m wrong is that he gave it or she borrowed it to research.
Marvel’s Avengers Movies in Order
listafterlist.com

Marvel’s Avengers Movies in Order - ListAfterList

See our comprehensive and update list of Marvel Avengers movies in the order in which they were released.
listafterlist.com
Here is the chronological order based on the events in the films (as opposed to the chronological order by theatrical release date):
  • The Infinity Stone Saga starts with Captain America and possibly ends with Avengers: End Game, but who knows for sure? And not every move in between features Infinity Stones.
  • Move Captain America: The First Avenger here, as it takes place in WWII.
  • Iron Man (2008)
  • The Incredible Hulk (2008)
  • Iron Man 2 (2010)
  • Marvel One-Shot: The Consultant (2011 Video)
  • Marvel One-Shot: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor’s Hammer (2011 Video)
  • Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)- Clearly in the wrong place.
  • Move Captain Marvel here- set in 1995.
  • Thor (2011)
  • The Avengers (2012)
  • Marvel One-Shot: Item 47 (2012 Video)
  • Iron Man 3 (2013)
  • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (2013 TV Series)
  • Thor: The Dark World (2013)
  • Marvel One-Shot: Agent Carter (2013 Video)
  • Marvel One-Shot: All Hail the King (2014 Short Film)
  • Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
  • Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
  • Daredevil (2015 TV Series)
  • Agent Carter (2015 TV Series)
  • Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)
  • Ant-Man (2015)
  • Captain America: Civil War (2016)
  • Doctor Strange (2016)
  • Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (2017)
  • Spiderman: Homecoming (2017)
  • Thor: Ragnarok (2017)
  • Black Panther (2018)
  • Avengers: Infinity War – Part I (2018)
  • Deadpool 2 (May 18, 2018)
  • Ant-Man and the Wasp (July 6, 2018)
  • Venom (Oct. 5, 2018)
  • Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse (Dec. 14, 2018)
  • Silver and Black (Feb. 8, 2019)
  • Dark Phoenix (Feb. 14, 2019)
  • Captain Marvel (March 8, 2019)
  • Avengers 4 – Infinity Wars Part II (April 27, 2019)- More familiar as Avengers: End Game.
  • Gambit (March 13, 2020)
  • Spider-Man: Homecoming 2 (July 5, 2019)
  • The New Mutants (Aug. 2, 2019)- Releasing 3 April 2020. Delayed.
  • Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (2020)- Delayed look for 2021.
  • Black Widow Movie (May 1, 2020)
  • The Eternals (November 6, 2020)
  • Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (May 7, 2021)
  • Spider-Man: Far From Home Sequel (July 16, 2021)
  • Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (February 12, 2021)
  • Thor – Love and Thunder (November 7, 2021)
  • Black Panther 2 (May 6, 2022)
  • Logan Spinoff (TBD)
  • Blade (TBD)
  • Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 (TBD)
  • Captain Marvel Sequel (TBD)
  • Fantastic Four (TBD)
  • Ant-Man and the Wasp Sequel (TBD)
 
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I noticed something:
On the Voilence scale most MCU is very violent, sometimes almost blood and guts (think Age of Ultron).
"Antman" and "Antman and The Wasp" are amazing non violet for action, PG level. I think the latter is all G.
Black Panther and the 2 part Avengers movies was excellent.

My favorite is "Thor Ragnarok". It is so quirky and unique.

AustinIllini said:
I saw Dr. Strange and I will say Marvel needs to lay off the straight origin stories. I would prefer a movie where we just assume the hero has their powers. We all know the story for almost all of them.
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I do not.
I read very few US comics (more Tintin, Asterix, Lucky Luke, and Warlord series).
Besides, cannot exactly make a movie form a comic story, and given the decades since the comic was drawn the culture changes would be massive.
 
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AustinIllini said:
I saw Dr. Strange and I will say Marvel needs to lay off the straight origin stories. I would prefer a movie where we just assume the hero has their powers. We all know the story for almost all of them.
Click to expand...

While I would like this, sadly most if not almost all of the folks who actually go see these movies, know very little of these characters, so I have a feeling we will see origin stories for almost all of the characters we are introduced to who do get their own movie.

@kazmac Love your picture... Nothing like a little Gatchaman, or "Battle of the Planets for the US folks, to start the morning off!
 
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rhett7660 said:
While I would like this, sadly most if not almost all of the folks who actually go see these movies, know very little of these characters, so I have a feeling we will see origin stories for almost all of the characters we are introduced to who do get their own movie.

@kazmac Love your picture... Nothing like a little Gatchaman, or "Battle of the Planets for the US folks, to start the morning off!
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Maybe, but like, do I feel like Black Widow or the Hulk are less impactful in the MCU? I mean, neither of them really have backstory films (the Hulk kind of does)
 
PracticalMac said:
I noticed something:
On the Voilence scale most MCU is very violent, sometimes almost blood and guts (think Age of Ultron).
"Antman" and "Antman and The Wasp" are amazing non violet for action, PG level. I think the latter is all G.
Black Panther and the 2 part Avengers movies was excellent.

My favorite is "Thor Ragnarok". It is so quirky and unique.



I do not.
I read very few US comics (more Tintin, Asterix, Lucky Luke, and Warlord series).
Besides, cannot exactly make a movie form a comic story, and given the decades since the comic was drawn the culture changes would be massive.
Click to expand...
It’s interesting that you can watch Wolverine plung his blades into the chest of commandos invading the Professor’s Mansion and it still walks with a PG-13 rating, simple, they have no blood.;)
 
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