Mass Production of A15 Chip for iPhone 13 Set to Begin Ahead of Schedule in Late May

[827538]

Ok thanks... that's what I figured.

It seemed kinda weird for a 3rd-party chip to be "integrated" into an Apple chip...

Yeh I think someone was a bit confused. Apple will undoubtedly integrate their own modem in the future, but it will never be a Qualcomm modem.

 

[Analog Kid]

In SoC design, you design a core for use in multiple chips, you don’t design a chip and then say “let’s make a different chip based on that chip.”

You sure about that? Because based on what I read in these forums, it sounds like Apple starts with the name and then figures out a design from there.

 

[I7guy]

As a TSMC shareholder for some time and an electronic engineer who follows this closely, it's pretty simple. Apple hands TSMC huge piles of cash for first access to any process. Basically Apple gets whatever they want and everyone else comes after that. Apple has both the demand and literally endless piles of money at their disposal to pay well in advance, which allows TSMC to accelerate their capital expenditure.

It helps out everyone as Apple is essentially pumping TSMC and by proxy ASML (also a shareholder) with staggering amounts of R&D. You should look into ASML's EUV lithography machines, perhaps the most advanced machine ever created and one of the reasons for the current chip shortage as they just can't make them fast enough. Hell just the R&D that went into building the EUV laser is difficult to believe.

TSMC and the rise of the iPhone go hand in hand. They already have first access to N4 (refined N5P process) and the new N3 fab they are building. I wouldn't be surprised to see TSMC's market cap hit $1tn in a couple of years as they accelerate away from Intel and Samsung.

Interesting information, thank you. You and some others have essentially said about the same thing. But yeah, your order will be moved to the front of the line if you pay enough for it

 

[Michael Scrip]

Interesting information, thank you. You and some others have essentially said about the same thing. But yeah, your order will be moved to the front of the line if you pay enough for it

Oh lord... I wonder if there will be a coalition of smaller companies who will go after Apple because it's "unfair" that Apple has so much money that they can basically buy up all the chip-making capacity in the world...

The Coalition of Chip Fairness

 

[David G.]

There is no shortage. 🤷🏻‍♂️

An entire factory burned to the ground over four says in October, ruining a large chunk of the audio chip market, and caused various models of products (amps, stereos, transceiver radios) from different companies across industries using those chips to become permanently or at least temporarily discontinued. Domestic and foreign auto manufacturers had to put car production on hold because they couldn't get chips for car radios as an example. This is just in relation to a fire, not mentioning Covid-19 related shortages...

 

[jz0309]

As a TSMC shareholder for some time and an electronic engineer who follows this closely, it's pretty simple. Apple hands TSMC huge piles of cash for first access to any process. Basically Apple gets whatever they want and everyone else comes after that. Apple has both the demand and literally endless piles of money at their disposal to pay well in advance, which allows TSMC to accelerate their capital expenditure.

It helps out everyone as Apple is essentially pumping TSMC and by proxy ASML (also a shareholder) with staggering amounts of R&D. You should look into ASML's EUV lithography machines, perhaps the most advanced machine ever created and one of the reasons for the current chip shortage as they just can't make them fast enough. Hell just the R&D that went into building the EUV laser is difficult to believe.

TSMC and the rise of the iPhone go hand in hand. They already have first access to N4 (refined N5P process) and the new N3 fab they are building. I wouldn't be surprised to see TSMC's market cap hit $1tn in a couple of years as they accelerate away from Intel and Samsung.

Except, most of the shortage is on more mature process nodes that do not use EUV, example automobile...

 

[Michael Scrip]

An entire factory burned to the ground over four says in October, ruining a large chunk of the audio chip market, and caused various models of products (amps, stereos, transceiver radios) from different companies across industries using those chips to become permanently or at least temporarily discontinued. Domestic and foreign auto manufacturers had to put car production on hold because they couldn't get chips for car radios as an example. This is just in relation to a fire, not mentioning Covid-19 related shortages...

Exactly...

I heard Ford has stopped making the F-150 temporarily because of the chip shortage... and I think it is GM who is building trucks without some sort of management module because they can't get chips either.

But don't worry... the next iPhone will be released as scheduled... hooray!

 

[rafark]

Never would have thought that these chips would become the powerhouses that they are, way back in 2007.

Apple only started designing its own chips with the introduction of the A4 that was used in the iPhone 4, iPad and iPod touch 4g.

 

[jz0309]

Exactly...

I heard Ford has stopped making the F-150 temporarily because of the chip shortage... and I think it is GM who is building trucks without some sort of management module because they can't get chips either.

But don't worry... the next iPhone will be released as scheduled... hooray!

The automobile chip shortage started a year a when the manufacturers cancelled chip orders due to lack of demand, the foundries filled the lines with other demands and it takes 3-5 months to make these chips... and there was a fire at Renesas a week or 2 ago, a major chip supplier for automobile so that will make things worse.
BUT, automobile uses mature process nodes, eg 40nm+, nothing bleeding edge line Apple uses

 

[jz0309]

You sure about that? Because based on what I read in these forums, it sounds like Apple starts with the name and then figures out a design from there.

Trust him, that’s the way it’s done... otherwise we would be at an A9 and there definitely would not be a M chip... there are not many people in these forums who understand semiconductor design and manufacturing

 

[cmaier]

Trust him, that’s the way it’s done... otherwise we would be at an A9 and there definitely would not be a M chip... there are not many people in these forums who understand semiconductor design and manufacturing

He was joking, I’m sure.

 

[Michael Scrip]

The automobile chip shortage started a year a when the manufacturers cancelled chip orders due to lack of demand, the foundries filled the lines with other demands and it takes 3-5 months to make these chips... and there was a fire at Renesas a week or 2 ago, a major chip supplier for automobile so that will make things worse.
BUT, automobile uses mature process nodes, eg 40nm+, nothing bleeding edge line Apple uses

Gotcha... thanks!

 

[Fomalhaut]

I wonder if the 'M1X' will be based on the A15 chip then...

This was my first thought too. If the A15 is rolling out in May, and assuming the next Apple Silicon SoCs for Macs will be based on the same core architecture, then maybe we will see the M1X earlier rather than later. I initially thought Sep/Oct at roughly the same time as the A15-based iPhones/iPads, but maybe it could arrive as early as WWDC?

 

[dgdosen]

A and M series chips are not “based on” each other. They use the same core microarchitecture, but neither is the basis for the other, though one or the other may tape out first. They also use different physical designs, netlists, etc. In SoC design, you design a core for use in multiple chips, you don’t design a chip and then say “let’s make a different chip based on that chip.”

Don't they at least share the same "high-performance" and "energy-efficient" cores on those SOCs? I'd like the think Apple can leverage some tech between the platforms...

 

[cmaier]

Don't they at least share the same "high-performance" and "energy-efficient" cores on those SOCs? I'd like the think Apple can leverage some tech between the platforms...

Yes, they share the same core microarchitecture. But saying “A is based on B” implies B is a derivative of A. In actuality, Apple’s engineers designed both chips at the same time.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Never would have thought that these chips would become the powerhouses that they are, way back in 2007.

Oh!I definitelyKnewDue.TexasInstrumentsChips(OMAP) killingOthers wayBefore.

Apple! Take my money in advance. I am ready!!!! Let’s go

P.S. Only 5 months away till new iPhone is released. Get your passport ready folks.

. Nah you mean sell your o very sell your swimmers. Tell your kids they're going school. -;>

 

[827538]

Except, most of the shortage is on more mature process nodes that do not use EUV, example automobile...

There’s shortage on just about every single node. TSMC is currently doing what’s called a super hot run on their N5 and N7 nodes and still can’t satisfy demand.
The car manufacturers made some mistakes but a lot of this comes from simply huge demand from every sector. Intel and AMD are literally selling every chip they produce, especially in server markets.

 

[827538]

Exactly...

I heard Ford has stopped making the F-150 temporarily because of the chip shortage... and I think it is GM who is building trucks without some sort of management module because they can't get chips either.

But don't worry... the next iPhone will be released as scheduled... hooray!

This entirely stems from short sighted management at auto manufacturers cutting chip orders due to the pandemic and seriously underestimating future demand.

 

[827538]

The automobile chip shortage started a year a when the manufacturers cancelled chip orders due to lack of demand, the foundries filled the lines with other demands and it takes 3-5 months to make these chips... and there was a fire at Renesas a week or 2 ago, a major chip supplier for automobile so that will make things worse.
BUT, automobile uses mature process nodes, eg 40nm+, nothing bleeding edge line Apple uses

Except for just about every highend VW manufacturer using 16nm Nvidia chips... or Tesla... or GM....

The ECU might be 40nm but the infotainment system is on much more advanced nodes.

 

[FlyingTexan]

I’m at the point I don’t even know why we need more. My 12 mini is more powerful than most laptops.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Except for just about every highend VW manufacturer using 16nm Nvidia chips... or Tesla... or GM....

The ECU might be 40nm but the infotainment system is on much more advanced nodes.

If they’d like to fix it just make it so my phone runs it all. Plug it in and go.

 

[JulianL]

I get the new iPhone every year just because the trade in value of the old phone is still high even when the differences aren’t great. Bought a 12 Pro when I didn’t really need it even though the visual changes were nice. If this phone has Touch ID, a 120hz display and a smaller notch, I don’t see how they could top the phone the year after without getting rid of the notch completely. Will be getting a 13 pro max.

Same here. It’s also a convenient way to get a new battery every year without the hassle of going in for a battery swap so it keeps me on a max 1 year old battery all the time to maintain decent battery life.

 

[JulianL]

Yeah, right up there with "This is the most powerful iPhone yet".

So true. Every year I want to scream when Tim Cook says “this is our most advanced/powerful iPhone ever“ and he does say that pretty much every year about the flagship model. When would it ever be otherwise? Come on Tim, just one year why don’t you say “this is our latest iPhone, we’re really excited about it even though it isn’t quite as advanced as the one we released last year”. Go on Tim, I dare you.

 

[WaxedJacket]

Currently own an XS and I have zero need for a new phone but an iPhone 13 mini might be calling my name.

 

[DeepIn2U]

"Improved performance and power efficiency"

When has that never been the case?

Intel Core in early days. My how we all forgotten (especially with Core2Duo lineup). Not no more since then until M1