MBP keyboard article

[TC_GoldRush]

Hey hey hey. Don’t be dissing my G3 Pismo!

Was talking more about the MacBook 2006-2008 models. However those laptops still worked, these newer Apple laptops are having major issues! Apple needs to get their **** together.

 

[jerryk]

No question, I enjoy the podcast, and in many cases Rene's insights, but when the topic is about an issue, he can really do some logical backbends to justify apple

Yep. That is the reason I unsubscribed from the podcast. Some of those justifications were painful to listen to.

 

[lec0rsaire]

Some of the things you cited are indeed rather silly. I think framing it in terms of "professional" versus "not professional," as you point out many have done on here, doesn't make a lot of sense.

On the second paragraph, though, I think the argument is that if you're already paying a lot for a professional grade machine, you shouldn't have to use "workarounds." I'm not sure how much of it is a money thing or an inability to afford thing. I've noticed people tend to assume that about others.

As for looking toward the future, there's a fine line between building toward the future and leaving current uses in a bit of a bind. And, as noted, the issue really is that it's a choice that didn't have to be made. Skip the drive toward thinner and lighter, and everyone could have had their cake and had it too.

It is redundant to make the chassis larger to include Type A ports when the USB-C port already has USB 3.1 gen 2 capability along with TB2, HDMI, Micro A & B, Lightning, Ethernet, DisplayPort, VGA and DVI.

Isn’t it better to give people the choice to use these ports for whatever purpose they want instead of having all of them when some may not use them at all? I get the frustration with the MacBook. One port is just not enough but you can hook up nearly whatever you want to the MBPs.

Getting rid of MagSafe sucks. It was a great feature but again is sort of redundant with USB PD. In exchange for it you can charge from either side and not have to wrap cables around the machine, which can cause premature wear and tear.

 

[ryannel2003]

I'm now conflicted over what to do with the computer. Since my chat with Apple support and multiple cleanings the keyboard has been fine. Yesterday the spacebar literally didn't work on one side at all and now it's been behaving fine. The warranty expires in a few weeks and I just can't drop $350 right now on AppleCare. I'm worried once it's expired the keyboard will start misbehaving again.

I have a box on the way to send it to the depot. Don't know if I should send it in.

 

[jerryk]

I'm now conflicted over what to do with the computer. Since my chat with Apple support and multiple cleanings the keyboard has been fine. Yesterday the spacebar literally didn't work on one side at all and now it's been behaving fine. The warranty expires in a few weeks and I just can't drop $350 right now on AppleCare. I'm worried once it's expired the keyboard will start misbehaving again.

I have a box on the way to send it to the depot. Don't know if I should send it in.

Send it in and borrow the $350 if you have to get AppleCare. Your other option is to have $550 or so to pay for an out of warranty top case replacement. And if $350 is tough, $550 will be even harder.

 

[invisibleshoes]

I'm now conflicted over what to do with the computer. Since my chat with Apple support and multiple cleanings the keyboard has been fine. Yesterday the spacebar literally didn't work on one side at all and now it's been behaving fine. The warranty expires in a few weeks and I just can't drop $350 right now on AppleCare. I'm worried once it's expired the keyboard will start misbehaving again.

I have a box on the way to send it to the depot. Don't know if I should send it in.

Send it in asap, before the warranty end date. My 2016 started exhibiting this problem around the 9th month of ownership. Did a thorough cleaning and it was fine, then eventually became worst after the warranty expiration date. Just my luck.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

I'm now conflicted over what to do with the computer. Since my chat with Apple support and multiple cleanings the keyboard has been fine. Yesterday the spacebar literally didn't work on one side at all and now it's been behaving fine. The warranty expires in a few weeks and I just can't drop $350 right now on AppleCare. I'm worried once it's expired the keyboard will start misbehaving again.

I have a box on the way to send it to the depot. Don't know if I should send it in.

Beg or borrow but get that AppleCare! The other solution is to sell that laptop and accept the losses (maybe less than the cost of AppleCare) and invest the proceeds in either a refurbished 2015 MBP or a non-Apple machine (say a Thinkpad)

 

[BigMcGuire]

Figured I'd try to lighten things up... I'm a huge fan of Mechanical Keyboards. I have quite a few including the original IBM. I've used a Steel Series 7g for many years. I think it's funny that this keyboard in the picture weighs more than double that the laptop does.

These keyboards allow me to type super fast and can handle decades of heavy typing. Love them.

Here's my MacBook Pro 13' 2017 TB with a Mechanical Keyboard. Made in the USA - http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB4044A

 

[danny842003]

​

The failure of the keyboards is directly on Apple, as ever Apple will little do nothing unless it knows that it will loose in a court of law.

Now i'm not going to argue if this is or isn't a bad decision on the part of Apple but to say they will do nothing as always is a little harsh. I have had a good number of products fail outside of warranty periods and they have fixed the issue for free.
I dont doubt they could be better but theres no company I have ever had to del with that has better customer service.

 

[jerryk]

Figured I'd try to lighten things up... I'm a huge fan of Mechanical Keyboards. I have quite a few including the original IBM. I've used a Steel Series 7g for many years. I think it's funny that this keyboard in the picture weighs more than double that the laptop does.

These keyboards allow me to type super fast and can handle decades of heavy typing. Love them.

Here's my MacBook Pro 13' 2017 TB with a Mechanical Keyboard. Made in the USA - http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB4044A

Cool another Longmire fan!!! And Mechanical Keyboard lover. I am amazed you can use the short travel MBP keyboard after getting used to one of those beasts.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Cool another Longmire fan!!! And Mechanical Keyboard lover. I am amazed you can use the short travel MBP keyboard after getting used to one of those beasts.

Hah, awesome, I am not alone! Love that show. And it definitely isn't easy (going from mechanical to MBP).

 

[john123]

It is redundant to make the chassis larger to include Type A ports when the USB-C port already has USB 3.1 gen 2 capability along with TB2, HDMI, Micro A & B, Lightning, Ethernet, DisplayPort, VGA and DVI.

Isn’t it better to give people the choice to use these ports for whatever purpose they want instead of having all of them when some may not use them at all? I get the frustration with the MacBook. One port is just not enough but you can hook up nearly whatever you want to the MBPs.

Getting rid of MagSafe sucks. It was a great feature but again is sort of redundant with USB PD. In exchange for it you can charge from either side and not have to wrap cables around the machine, which can cause premature wear and tear.

It’s the dongle/hub issue when so many people—like, almost everyone—is guaranteed to still be using at least one USB-A device. Over time, the issue becomes less relevant and bothersome. 2016? Super annoying. It’s also worth noting that this is a break from recent Apple precedent. There have been direct legacy ports in every new model for a long time now. You’d argue (and be correct) that USB-C is a different animal precisely because of its flexibility. But the dongle requirement to do something as simple as attach a phone or an external drive is a bit frustrating.

Obviously everyone has different views here, including how acceptable the requirement of carrying an accessory for accessories is.

 

[lec0rsaire]

There are tons of native external USB-C drives on the market. I bought a couple after launch when every USB-C accessory was on sale. I bought the HDMI multiport adapter ($49), TB2, lightning cable ($19) and a couple of the single C->A dongles ($9) with the machine. They were still expensive but much more reasonable than the regular prices. There are cheaper generic dongles but I always prefer having the official Apple stuff. I feel that they're just better made and I want to avoid any sort of incompatibility problems from using 3rd party stuff whenever possible.

The external drives usually come with USB-C data cables which are different from the power cable for charging that the MBPs come with. I believe the charging cable only transfers data at 480 Mbps, a huge difference from the theoretical 10 Gbps (3.1 gen 2) of the data cable.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Yeah, I bout crapped myself when I saw the dongles that Apple was offering for our MBP 13's so I went to Amazon. As you can see from my picture above - cable city but I'm fairly used to it by now. I have a similar setup at work minus the monitor.

$7.99 Anker cables USB C to USB C - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EMINIWW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$13.99 Aukey 4 port USB 3.1 hub to USB C - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0772TXG3H/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$13.95 USB C to DVI - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0768RFQ83/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$9.99 tiny Anker 1 port USB 3.1 to C -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078NKPGW9/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$27.99 - 30w USB C Anker Charging Brick - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y427WT7/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (Works very well on my MBP 13'. Got two of these as they are 1/2 the size of the included Apple USB C charging brick and great for travel.)

And just for the heck of it because my life likes red:

$15.99 6 ft USB C Anker cables - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LNA0XCU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This setup allows me to use my USB keyboards with ease - (mechanical keyboards FTW!)

Just amazes me how hot this laptop idles (even the TB model). Sitting at 100F battery temps doing nothing but Macrumors. Laptop coolers don't seem to have an effect due to the way the bottom of the MBP is set up. Near instant 15F increase if I go to clamshell mode so I leave the screen up.

I know with my Mac mini had to get a fan speed app to turn on the fans before the thing cooked itself to death. Made a huge difference in WoW and Starcraft back in the day.

That said --- love this laptop - my first MBP. Sure, keyboard takes some getting used to (especially with my love for Mechanical Keyboards) - but the laptop has been amazing. Love Mac OS. Love the screen. Love the portability. Very happy with my first MBP.

 

[john123]

Yeah, I bout crapped myself when I saw the dongles that Apple was offering for our MBP 13's so I went to Amazon. As you can see from my picture above - cable city but I'm fairly used to it by now. I have a similar setup at work minus the monitor.

$7.99 Anker cables USB C to USB C - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EMINIWW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$13.99 Aukey 4 port USB 3.1 hub to USB C - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0772TXG3H/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$13.95 USB C to DVI - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0768RFQ83/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$9.99 tiny Anker 1 port USB 3.1 to C -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078NKPGW9/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$27.99 - 30w USB C Anker Charging Brick - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y427WT7/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (Works very well on my MBP 13'. Got two of these as they are 1/2 the size of the included Apple USB C charging brick and great for travel.)

And just for the heck of it because my life likes red:

$15.99 6 ft USB C Anker cables - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LNA0XCU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This setup allows me to use my USB keyboards with ease - (mechanical keyboards FTW!)

Just amazes me how hot this laptop idles (even the TB model). Sitting at 100F battery temps doing nothing but Macrumors. Laptop coolers don't seem to have an effect due to the way the bottom of the MBP is set up. Near instant 15F increase if I go to clamshell mode so I leave the screen up.

I know with my Mac mini had to get a fan speed app to turn on the fans before the thing cooked itself to death. Made a huge difference in WoW and Starcraft back in the day.

That said --- love this laptop - my first MBP. Sure, keyboard takes some getting used to (especially with my love for Mechanical Keyboards) - but the laptop has been amazing. Love Mac OS. Love the screen. Love the portability. Very happy with my first MBP.

Great accessory list. I love Anker stuff. What are your thoughts on the tiny adapter? Do you use it a lot or do you tend to just grab the hub?

I have one of those $50 everything-in-one hubs but really don’t like using it.

 

[Naimfan]

Great accessory list. I love Anker stuff. What are your thoughts on the tiny adapter? Do you use it a lot or do you tend to just grab the hub?

I have one of those $50 everything-in-one hubs but really don’t like using it.

The mere fact that Apple had to provide the option for a all-in-one hub shows it knew that USB-C only was too early.

 

[tim0409]

Beg or borrow but get that AppleCare!

This shows how messed up this is; having given Apple a significant amount of money to buy a "premium" product, the solution is to give Apple even more money to cover their fundamental design errors.

Thankfully in the UK Apple won't/shouldn't get off that lightly; our consumer law covers situations where companies sell shoddy products; it is not reasonable to spend over a £1000 on a laptop, only for it to break after Apple's warranty period (note I said Apple's, not what the law requires) and be forced to spend £450 to have it fixed due to a design/manufacturing flaw.

 

[doitdada]

It’s even more ridiculous when people trash the MBP but praise the MBA that has a terrible, pixelated display for 2018, old CPUs, slower 1600 MHz RAM, no dGPU, (Intel HD 5000 and 6000 are a joke), no TB3 nor USB 3.1 gen 2, no TouchID, slower WiFi and slower SSDs (the MBPs have PCIe 3.0 with 8 GT/s. No 15” option either which is a must if you want good performance.

I know the price of the new Pros may scare some people off, but in my eyes the hardware found in the current MacBook Air offers horrendous experience at $999.

There are tons of native external USB-C drives on the market. I bought a couple after launch when every USB-C accessory was on sale. I bought the HDMI multiport adapter ($49), TB2, lightning cable ($19) and a couple of the single C->A dongles ($9) with the machine.

Upon release the market was very limited, but now USB-C availability is getting along great. Now I have a wireless pair of headphones from Bang & Olufsen with USB-C, a Beoplay P6 on the way with USB-C, and a Nintendo Switch also with USB-C. External batteries, cables and chargers are also becoming common. Prices are going down as well. There has been some reports of USB-C and displayport/HDMI cables not being compatible with macOS 10.13.4, but we will have to wait for future releases to see if this is problem persists.

Just amazes me how hot this laptop idles (even the TB model). Sitting at 100F battery temps doing nothing but Macrumors. Laptop coolers don't seem to have an effect due to the way the bottom of the MBP is set up. Near instant 15F increase if I go to clamshell mode so I leave the screen up.

I don't care about heat in clamshell mode, and most of the heat comes from high performance graphics. Mine idles around 34-36 celsius with integrated graphics activated. I seldom hear the fans, only video export/rendering/gaming benchmark, so I don't really care about heat.

 

[lec0rsaire]

I know the price of the new Pros may scare some people off, but in my eyes the hardware found in the current MacBook Air offers horrendous experience at $999.

One of my friends has an Air from 2015 and I had trouble streaming 720p and 1080p over AirPlay to his ATV. The video kept stuttering and dropping frames like crazy. With my 7 Plus and his iPad Pro everything played like butter through the same exact setup. It is pathetic when a low power ARM device can outperform a much more expensive, Intel core i5 with much more RAM with nothing else running!

While Apple will probably have to keep using Intel for its high end machines (MBP, iMac Pro, Mac Pro) for the foreseeable future, I can easily see them moving to custom designed ARM chips for entry level and mainstream machines. The only problem is not being able to run a lot of legacy x86-64 software. With a unified Mac and iOS App Store, this may not be a huge problem though.

Windows took a similar kind of direction with their mainstream Surface laptops offering Windows 10 S stock. Not the same as a different architecture but trading the full Win 10 experience for more security and battery life although customers have the option of running the real OS.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

This shows how messed up this is; having given Apple a significant amount of money to buy a "premium" product, the solution is to give Apple even more money to cover their fundamental design errors.
...

The price of investing in a monopolistic ecosystem.

 

[Nilhum]

I'm now conflicted over what to do with the computer. Since my chat with Apple support and multiple cleanings the keyboard has been fine. Yesterday the spacebar literally didn't work on one side at all and now it's been behaving fine. The warranty expires in a few weeks and I just can't drop $350 right now on AppleCare. I'm worried once it's expired the keyboard will start misbehaving again.

I have a box on the way to send it to the depot. Don't know if I should send it in.

Why did you buy a MacBook, one of the most expensive devices on the market, if $350 for Apple care is too much?

Sell the device, as Apple produce retain most of their value and buy a computer with a normal keyboard(every other laptop that exists.)
[doublepost=1526425427][/doublepost]

The price of investing in a monopolistic ecosystem.

Not like switching to Windows is very difficult. Arguable Windows 10 has more feature, though I don’t find it as refined. You don’t lose much.

 

[Cashmonee]

I have to admit, I am a little taken aback by this page. We have people suggesting that people beg and borrow to get enough money to buy AppleCare in order to protect themselves from a known defect. There are people saying you should be fine with only USB-C because it does everything, even though Apple themselves bundle all of their devices with a USB-A cord. I am sorry everyone, but doesn't this all feel just a little bit wrong? I am not saying the posters above are wrong and I am not calling anyone out, but shouldn't Apple bare some responsibility for all of this? Shouldn't they be shipping a computer that is compatible with their own current devices? Shouldn't they ship a product that does not require an extra cost to fix a known design flaw? Why are we ok with paying a premium price for a product that requires more money spent on warranties and dongles?

 

[macjunk(ie)]

I have to admit, I am a little taken aback by this page. We have people suggesting that people beg and borrow to get enough money to buy AppleCare in order to protect themselves from a known defect. There are people saying you should be fine with only USB-C because it does everything, even though Apple themselves bundle all of their devices with a USB-A cord. I am sorry everyone, but doesn't this all feel just a little bit wrong? I am not saying the posters above are wrong and I am not calling anyone out, but shouldn't Apple bare some responsibility for all of this? Shouldn't they be shipping a computer that is compatible with their own current devices? Shouldn't they ship a product that does not require an extra cost to fix a known design flaw? Why are we ok with paying a premium price for a product that requires more money spent on warranties and dongles?

What would you rather have the people with the flawed keyboards do? Have faith in Apple that they will willingly accept that their design is flawed and issue a rightful recall? Apple does not work that way. They need a lawsuit everytime to get them to fulfill their moral obligation and they even find ways to get around that.
I agree...what we have here is unfair but people who have invested 3000$ need to invest the additional 379$ so that the cost for 3 years is limited to 3379$. Else, there is no telling how much people in the end will have to spend. So far, we have had keyboard issues, screen and touch bar cracking issues. Closer to the three year mark, we will see my favorite kind of issue - GPU failures!

 

[Cashmonee]

What would you rather have the people with the flawed keyboards do? Have faith in Apple that they will willingly accept that their design is flawed and issue a rightful recall? Apple does not work that way. They need a lawsuit everytime to get them to fulfill their moral obligation and they even find ways to get around that.
I agree...what we have here is unfair but people who have invested 3000$ need to invest the additional 379$ so that the cost for 3 years is limited to 3379$. Else, there is no telling how much people in the end will have to spend. So far, we have had keyboard issues, screen and touch bar cracking issues. Closer to the three year mark, we will see my favorite kind of issue - GPU failures!

I absolutely agree with you. They should get AppleCare. I guess I was just thinking out loud. It all seems so ridiculous that we are effectively allowing Apple to do this. I put myself in this boat. I buy a ton of Apple products, many of which seem to have regressed in features and quality in the name of "design". I guess I am asking myself, when will I stop and look elsewhere. There was a time when the premium that Apple charged was justified. I am not certain that is the case anymore.

 

[ic-v]

So after hearing some recent podcasts (yup, Macbreak Weekly ) and news stories on youtube about the numerous keyboard issues I've been reading more into this on forums to see what other users are experiencing so far as the problem and resolutions and am really considering either an upgrade to the potential new MBPs coming in June or a "downgrade" to a used 2015 model simply to avoid the potential for problems to occur and the associated downtime without my comp.

I'm actually a bit surprised that I haven't had issues since it seems the 2016 models especially were notorious for these problems but I also imagine it's in part due to the fact that I usually use my macbook pro on a soft-bottomed cooling pad while using casually at home (since it seems like heat is one major cause for the keyboard sticking or doubling) and with an external mechanical keyboard at work.

I have Applecare until December 2019 so I'm not completely on-edge atm but I do wonder if maybe I got lucky and my mbp was designed perfectly to spec or if it's just a ticking time-bomb due to an inherently fatally flawed design. I'll say this, as someone who's not had an issue with my other apple devices aside from a swollen battery causing a popped-off Apple Watch Sport nike + series 0 screen (which was subsequently replaced with a Series 1 ) I'm keeping a close eye on the developments of this whole story and what's in store for WWDC.