If I do end up leaving macs I can also see ditching iPhones as well as I’m not overly keen on the direction they are going in - I would probably keep an iPad as a light browsing device, but I’d probably drop down to the basic model for that too...
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MBP keyboard article
- Thread starter maflynn
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I don't require power, but I do require intel chipsets as I need to run windows from time to time. I'll not derail the thread and discuss possible app compatibility issues with an ARM based Mac, because that sort of argument is best for another thread
My kids know how to use windows, they use them in school, I'm not concerned about that. I see the wisdom of staying on the Mac platform for now. There's definitely an advantage to sticking with a mac, because of iOS/macos integration and services.
One can only hopeThe only reason intel will hit targets will be if AMD force them to
Potentially already in progress
As I've often stated I don't know anyone who has purchased the new design MBP and kept it. Preferring to hold on to older Mac's or switch to another platform that works for their professional needs...
Q-6
This whole debacle saddens me, Apple had such a refined/perfected design pre-touchbar. It's a special kind of hubris that tries to gild the lily.
In ya'lls opinion: The GPU problems, the other problems, the keyboard problems --- is the keyboard problem as bad as the GPU problem and other problems in the past or worse?
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here because yes, I just purchased 2 2017 Pros (I'll admit I had near 0 knowledge of this problem when I bought them) but I'm going to stick with them. Why? Seems like the problems are minor, there are people who say they use them 10+ hours a day for years without a problem, it looks like Apple added gaskets? (unconfirmed on reddit) to the 2017 edition to help mitigate the problem (didn't completely stop it from happening), there are many many other users out there without problems.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm extremely upset about this. I'm strongly considering just returning my Mac unopened because of this (when it is ready for pickup next week). Had I had to do it all over again, I don't think I would have spent a penny on a 2017 Macbook Pro. I agree with ya'll completely. This is completely unacceptable for a $3k device.
My current plan: Get AppleCare+, sell back to Apple as soon as AppleCare+ is over and upgrade.
Feel free to tear this apart, won't offend me in the least bit. Why? Cuz I support the posters here. I just find myself on the other side of the fence cuz I just bought 2.
Side note: How easy it is to reject a Mac they shipped from China and get a refund, unopened?
I can get a Dell XPS 13, same specs for $1700 vs the $2500+ we paid. (I opted for the cheaper Dell display (not QuadHD+) as it was $300 more - so $2000). Has almost identical specs to the Macbook Pro.
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here because yes, I just purchased 2 2017 Pros (I'll admit I had near 0 knowledge of this problem when I bought them) but I'm going to stick with them. Why? Seems like the problems are minor, there are people who say they use them 10+ hours a day for years without a problem, it looks like Apple added gaskets? (unconfirmed on reddit) to the 2017 edition to help mitigate the problem (didn't completely stop it from happening), there are many many other users out there without problems.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm extremely upset about this. I'm strongly considering just returning my Mac unopened because of this (when it is ready for pickup next week). Had I had to do it all over again, I don't think I would have spent a penny on a 2017 Macbook Pro. I agree with ya'll completely. This is completely unacceptable for a $3k device.
My current plan: Get AppleCare+, sell back to Apple as soon as AppleCare+ is over and upgrade.
Feel free to tear this apart, won't offend me in the least bit. Why? Cuz I support the posters here. I just find myself on the other side of the fence cuz I just bought 2.
Side note: How easy it is to reject a Mac they shipped from China and get a refund, unopened?
I can get a Dell XPS 13, same specs for $1700 vs the $2500+ we paid. (I opted for the cheaper Dell display (not QuadHD+) as it was $300 more - so $2000). Has almost identical specs to the Macbook Pro.
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As long as you have Apple care plus and are willing to potentially go without the machine for a week or so in the event a key does fail I think you will be ok - at least you won’t be out of pocket for the topcase. Once your AC+ runs out if you sell on or trade in for a model that hopefully will have fixed the issue decisively then you will have had 3 years out of the computer and hopefully got some residual value back from it to put towards the new one. There’s also a good chance you might be lucky and never experience the issue as wellIn ya'lls opinion: The GPU problems, the other problems, the keyboard problems --- is the keyboard problem as bad as the GPU problem and other problems in the past or worse?
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here because yes, I just purchased 2 2017 Pros (I'll admit I had near 0 knowledge of this problem when I bought them) but I'm going to stick with them. Why? Seems like the problems are minor, there are people who say they use them 10+ hours a day for years without a problem, it looks like Apple added gaskets? (unconfirmed on reddit) to the 2017 edition to help mitigate the problem (didn't completely stop it from happening), there are many many other users out there without problems.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm extremely upset about this. I'm strongly considering just returning my Mac unopened because of this (when it is ready for pickup next week). Had I had to do it all over again, I don't think I would have spent a penny on a 2017 Macbook Pro. I agree with ya'll completely. This is completely unacceptable for a $3k device.
My current plan: Get AppleCare+, sell back to Apple as soon as AppleCare+ is over and upgrade.
Feel free to tear this apart, won't offend me in the least bit. Why? Cuz I support the posters here. I just find myself on the other side of the fence cuz I just bought 2.
Side note: How easy it is to reject a Mac they shipped from China and get a refund, unopened?
I can get a Dell XPS 13, same specs for $1700 vs the $2500+ we paid. (Display isn't as good).
Interesting that you linked to the repost instead of the original article. Regardless, thanks.
While some of their points are cogent, others are merely personal taste and catty.
Is it really that bad?
In our household we have 3x MacBooks (1x 2015, 2x 2016) and 1x 13" MacBook Pro 2017 and have experienced zero problems. Typing skills ranges from awful (me) to elite (kids) and there are no complaints.
I'll admit I hated these keyboards at first, but I have adapted.
What should I look out for? There seems to be no pattern.
In our household we have 3x MacBooks (1x 2015, 2x 2016) and 1x 13" MacBook Pro 2017 and have experienced zero problems. Typing skills ranges from awful (me) to elite (kids) and there are no complaints.
I'll admit I hated these keyboards at first, but I have adapted.
What should I look out for? There seems to be no pattern.
I don't think its as bad as the 2011 GPU issue, where nearly every GPU is going to fail.
I don't have an answer as to why these fail for some but not others, but I suspect that the key mechinism is much more delicate then prior generations and is more susceptible to failure.
idark wrote in reply 2:
"In the same time I remain with my MBP 2015 until they build a new solid MBP..."
A very wise decision.
I chose the 2015 design over a side-by-side comparison with a 2016 model (when they were first announced). Something about the "new" keyboard design just didn't feel right to me.
In hindsight, perhaps it was the smartest "computer buying decision" I ever made.
I care nothing that the 2015 "is older", is "slower than" the new design (all-but unmeasurable), etc.
It has a keyboard that will actually withstand day-to-day usage, and a full complement of ports that I can use without adapters for the peripherals I already have.
I sense that any OTHER company (other than Apple) would have quickly recognized the problem they had, and would have reverted to either a "known-good" design or a complete re-design for the next-year's models.
But Apple NEVER admits their mistakes.
Seems like they doubled-down on this one.
We'll find out in a few more months, when the 2018 models are introduced.
"In the same time I remain with my MBP 2015 until they build a new solid MBP..."
A very wise decision.
I chose the 2015 design over a side-by-side comparison with a 2016 model (when they were first announced). Something about the "new" keyboard design just didn't feel right to me.
In hindsight, perhaps it was the smartest "computer buying decision" I ever made.
I care nothing that the 2015 "is older", is "slower than" the new design (all-but unmeasurable), etc.
It has a keyboard that will actually withstand day-to-day usage, and a full complement of ports that I can use without adapters for the peripherals I already have.
I sense that any OTHER company (other than Apple) would have quickly recognized the problem they had, and would have reverted to either a "known-good" design or a complete re-design for the next-year's models.
But Apple NEVER admits their mistakes.
Seems like they doubled-down on this one.
We'll find out in a few more months, when the 2018 models are introduced.
I’d love to break up your post and hit every point, but that would take too long:
You’re absolutely right. Unless you need to drive 2x5k displays and must have the latest and greatest tech, there really aren’t that many reasons to ditch the 2015 and pick up the 2017. Performance is what? ~10%? Maybe 15%?
Picking up the 2015 when you happened to (June of 2016 I believe the new model was announced) wasn’t a bad grab at all. That said I would be hard pressed to find a reason to buy a 2015 machine *today* when June is right around the corner.
How long was it after the GPUs started really going to hell that Apple kicked off that replacement program? It was a bit later on, if I recall. However, Apple has already put in place a repair program for batteries in the nTb MbP, at least for a small batch of machines. Perhaps there will be a program in the future for keyboards (and if it is as widespread as some seem think, there will be), and those that have paid for replacement can get a refund.
I guess we will get the answers we are seeking in June if new models are announced. iFixit will undoubtedly tear that new machine apart immediately if only to see if the keyboard has changed at all. God help us all if it hasn’t and the problem continues grow.
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There really isn’t much you *can* look out for. It either seems to happen or it doesn’t. None of mine, or my friends’ 2017s have had issues yet. The 2016 on the other hand was a nightmare.
Side note: How easy it is to reject a Mac they shipped from China and get a refund, unopened?
I can get a Dell XPS 13, same specs for $1700 vs the $2500+ we paid. (Display isn't as good).
I assume you mean a Built to order system shipped from China. If so it is trivial. If you use it for less than 14 days (or decide you do not want it), call them up and arrange to send it back. You may also be able to take it into your local store and let them deal with.
BTW, why do say the Dell display is not as good. There Quad HD+ touch is pretty much top of the heap. It is gorgeous and higher resolution than the MBP. And with almost no bezel it looks like it is floating. Only bad thing is the placement of the webcam (chincam).
My bad, I should have clarified, for the $1700 XPS 13 that I set up on Dell's website, I opted for the cheaper 1900x display (the better display Quad HD+ was +$300 more) --- was just emphasizing the cost difference ($1700 (Dell) vs $2600 (Mac)).
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I wish I could say I was that smart. After the nth "the new MBP is going to ship and day! Oops it did not" incident I said screw it and bought a 2015 15" MBP in mid 2016. Paid under $2100 for 512GB with dGPU, over $400 off list. I was kicking myself when they shipped the new MBP in fall 2016. Now, I think I got lucky.
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To be honest, I still really love my 2016 MBP. Other than the fact that I fear my keyboard could fail (the replacement one is working great at the moment, btw) - I really love working with this computer. It's fast, doesn't get too warm under stress and it's light enough to make you think you're carrying a 13" instead of a 15".
So, just make sure to get AppleCare with yours and I do believe the keyboard situation is improving a bit and that they are tweaking materials and stuff like that.
Oh I know, it's something that will help my workflow, it gives me a second Mac laptop, which helps my family immensely as my two kids spar over which one gets the MBP vs. the SurfaceBook
The first batch of MacBook Pros had loads of problems, I went through 6 and they all went back, before buying a 2016 again in 2017 august, then having problems with the keyboard and sleep/wake issue. Then went to an Apple store, took them a few weeks, replaced battery, topcase with keyboard and motherboard, and now I am happy.
I tried to go back to Windows after 12 years of Apple devices, but it didn't really make me happy. The keyboard is now very good, and I type faster and "louder" than ever. I use the Touch Bar more than I think, and I love quickly switching through tabs in Safari on it, swiping the volume/brightness, scrolling through songs and podcasts without opening the app and clutter my screen estate. I was in the camp of total damnation of all the 2016/2017 Pro stood for, but now I am glad I made the switch.
I was upset at 3D touch as well, but tried to turn it off after using it a few years, and it just felt weird. The same I may say for force touch and haptic feedback. The ESC key is still a bit weird, but long coding sessions I may end up using a external keyboard and display.
I tried to go back to Windows after 12 years of Apple devices, but it didn't really make me happy. The keyboard is now very good, and I type faster and "louder" than ever. I use the Touch Bar more than I think, and I love quickly switching through tabs in Safari on it, swiping the volume/brightness, scrolling through songs and podcasts without opening the app and clutter my screen estate. I was in the camp of total damnation of all the 2016/2017 Pro stood for, but now I am glad I made the switch.
I was upset at 3D touch as well, but tried to turn it off after using it a few years, and it just felt weird. The same I may say for force touch and haptic feedback. The ESC key is still a bit weird, but long coding sessions I may end up using a external keyboard and display.
I really do not understand what Apple is trying to accomplish with the focus on fashion rather than performance in the “pro” product line. It doesn’t make sense that other computer manufacturers are selling similar form factor notebooks with vastly better internal design and while maintaining modular RAM, storage, battery, and WiFi... with better battery life and often water resistance.
The fact that Apple offers none of these bothers me greatly. It is bad enough that Apple notebooks have zero water resistance but to make the keyboard so flimsy while being impossible to repair is just spiteful.
The fact that Apple offers none of these bothers me greatly. It is bad enough that Apple notebooks have zero water resistance but to make the keyboard so flimsy while being impossible to repair is just spiteful.
It's about weight and size, mostly.... and can you give me an example of a similar form factor notebook with vastly better internal design?
LG Gram, Dell XPS 13 or 15, etc. I absolutely love that the LG Gram has not just one but TWO SSD blades.