MBP keyboard driving us to Windows

[iTundra]

The business disruptions caused by keyboard problems on so many of our MBP's over the past year is causing us to switch to Windows and Windows machines. Too many instances of people trying to do work but their keyboard makes it difficult or impossible or slow. Then having to be without a machine for some period while they are fixed. And on top of this, having to pay hundreds of dollars for the fix (and in two cases on top of people having to buy new MBP's in order to get work done while repairs are being done) that is the fault of Apple.

Perhaps more than anything it's the lack of appropriate response from Apple that concerns us. This is clearly a design/manufacturing error. It is Apple's fault. It is not normal use, wear and tear. Apple should have found a solution—a fix or new machine with new design—and offered that to every owner. They should also have introduced a new design and communicated that it insures people that this will no longer be a significant problem going forward.

That said, some are quite happy about this decision, particularly those who prefer Android phones but were forced in to our Apple eco-system. And at least one Surface aficionado.

Competition among various hardware manufacturers makes Windows machines reliable and less expensive (and same for Android devices?). Microsoft has gotten on the ball lately and made Windows world much more desirable. We were all fine with paying a premium for Apple, but not if the result is less useable than other options.

 

[Closingracer]

The business disruptions caused by keyboard problems on so many of our MBP's over the past year is causing us to switch to Windows and Windows machines. Too many instances of people trying to do work but their keyboard makes it difficult or impossible or slow. Then having to be without a machine for some period while they are fixed. And on top of this, having to pay hundreds of dollars for the fix (and in two cases on top of people having to buy new MBP's in order to get work done while repairs are being done) that is the fault of Apple.

Perhaps more than anything it's the lack of appropriate response from Apple that concerns us. This is clearly a design/manufacturing error. It is Apple's fault. It is not normal use, wear and tear. Apple should have found a solution—a fix or new machine with new design—and offered that to every owner. They should also have introduced a new design and communicated that it insures people that this will no longer be a significant problem going forward.

That said, some are quite happy about this decision, particularly those who prefer Android phones but were forced in to our Apple eco-system. And at least one Surface aficionado.

Competition among various hardware manufacturers makes Windows machines reliable and less expensive (and same for Android devices?). Microsoft has gotten on the ball lately and made Windows world much more desirable. We were all fine with paying a premium for Apple, but not if the result is less useable than other options.

Why is it always the vocal minority that's makes it claim their issue is a defect? Yeah sure there is plenty of stories on here about the keyboard but guess what 99% of the population who owns an Apple product isn't even on these forums. My friend owns a Macbook Pro and doesn't even know what this place is. People only complain on these forums never to praise something really. I for one don't have an issue with the keyboard (yet).

 

[Maxx Power]

The business disruptions caused by keyboard problems on so many of our MBP's over the past year is causing us to switch to Windows and Windows machines. Too many instances of people trying to do work but their keyboard makes it difficult or impossible or slow. Then having to be without a machine for some period while they are fixed. And on top of this, having to pay hundreds of dollars for the fix (and in two cases on top of people having to buy new MBP's in order to get work done while repairs are being done) that is the fault of Apple.

Perhaps more than anything it's the lack of appropriate response from Apple that concerns us. This is clearly a design/manufacturing error. It is Apple's fault. It is not normal use, wear and tear. Apple should have found a solution—a fix or new machine with new design—and offered that to every owner. They should also have introduced a new design and communicated that it insures people that this will no longer be a significant problem going forward.

That said, some are quite happy about this decision, particularly those who prefer Android phones but were forced in to our Apple eco-system. And at least one Surface aficionado.

Competition among various hardware manufacturers makes Windows machines reliable and less expensive (and same for Android devices?). Microsoft has gotten on the ball lately and made Windows world much more desirable. We were all fine with paying a premium for Apple, but not if the result is less useable than other options.

I'm just curious if you can pitch in on how many MBP machines in total at your business and what percentage so far has experienced issues ?

Thanks.

 

[keysofanxiety]

Competition among various hardware manufacturers makes Windows machines reliable and less expensive (and same for Android devices?).

That statement couldn't be less true. Due to the competition it's always a race to the bottom with Windows laptops. They compete on price, not quality.

Apple's hardware is standardised and they use the same design for many, many years. This vastly helps quality and QA as any problems identified from redesigns are rectified.

In every single Windows laptop, premium or not, you will always find a compromise on build quality or components.

 

[Closingracer]

That statement couldn't be less true. Due to competition it's always a race to the bottom with Windows laptops. In every single machine you will always find a compromise.

That's also not true. The Dell XPS 13 is a better laptop then the Macbook Pro 13 if you're only factoring hardware

 

[960design]

The business disruptions caused by keyboard problems on so many of our MBP's over the past year is causing us to switch to Windows and Windows machines. Too many instances of people trying to do work but their keyboard makes it difficult or impossible or slow. Then having to be without a machine for some period while they are fixed. And on top of this, having to pay hundreds of dollars for the fix (and in two cases on top of people having to buy new MBP's in order to get work done while repairs are being done) that is the fault of Apple.

Perhaps more than anything it's the lack of appropriate response from Apple that concerns us. This is clearly a design/manufacturing error. It is Apple's fault. It is not normal use, wear and tear. Apple should have found a solution—a fix or new machine with new design—and offered that to every owner. They should also have introduced a new design and communicated that it insures people that this will no longer be a significant problem going forward.

That said, some are quite happy about this decision, particularly those who prefer Android phones but were forced in to our Apple eco-system. And at least one Surface aficionado.

Competition among various hardware manufacturers makes Windows machines reliable and less expensive (and same for Android devices?). Microsoft has gotten on the ball lately and made Windows world much more desirable. We were all fine with paying a premium for Apple, but not if the result is less useable than other options.

Just for comparison, my keyboard works perfectly. Had this 2016 MBPr15 for a little over a year and a half.
We have 12 other MBPr 2016 with no keyboard issues in our department as well. The only issue so far was someone closed the display with a pen left at the above the keys. This of course cracked the display, resulting in something like an $800 repair bill.

PS. You are correct about Win10 doing pretty good things as well as some really good laptops coming out. I have an Asus Zenbook Pro that I use when we need to test something in a Windows environment.

 

[keysofanxiety]

That's also not true. The Dell XPS 13 is a better laptop then the Macbook Pro 13 if you're only factoring hardware

Better keyboard? Better trackpad? Better battery life?

Or do you just class hardware as being CPU and RAM?

 

[Closingracer]

Better keyboard? Better trackpad? Better battery life?

Or do you just class hardware as being CPU and RAM?

Overall. I like the keyboard on the Macbook Pro and have no issues with it. The track pad on the Macbook line can't be beat but isn't something I'll go out of my way to buy and battery life is not something I can comment on since I don't use one.

As far as hardware goes like cpu and RAM the dell has it beat for now.


I like my Macbook Pro and love the OS but purely agnostic to the preference of OS thr XPS 13 is better through the sum of its parts. If you prefer MacOS then get the Macbook Pro 13 it's a fine machine but it doesn't make the Dell XPS 13 a bad one.

 

[csurfr]

That's also not true. The Dell XPS 13 is a better laptop then the Macbook Pro 13 if you're only factoring hardware

I have your compromise on that machine. In order to make it look nearly “bezel free” they put the camera at the bottom of the display by the keyboard. I mean, that’s great if you want to look like an overlord looking down at all of the people you skype / google meet with.
[doublepost=1520604275][/doublepost]

Better keyboard? Better trackpad? Better battery life?

Or do you just class hardware as being CPU and RAM?

Don’t forget build quality.

 

[Closingracer]

I have your compromise on that machine. In order to make it look nearly “bezel free” they put the camera at the bottom of the display by the keyboard. I mean, that’s great if you want to look like an overlord looking down at all of the people you skype / google meet with.
[doublepost=1520604275][/doublepost]

Don’t forget build quality.

Meh have no issue with the camera. So then you have yours with the Macbook Pro and the keyboard and those butterfly switches. Yeah I have no issue with them but why switch it on the pro?

 

[csurfr]

Meh have no issue with the camera. So then you have yours with the Macbook Pro and the keyboard and those butterfly switches. Yeah I have no issue with them but why switch it on the pro?

I have two 2017 MacBook Pro 13/15) and zero issues with either one. My business partner has a 13” also, no problems.

 

[Closingracer]

I have two 2017 MacBook Pro 13/15) and zero issues with either one. My business partner has a 13” also, no problems.

I have no issues with it as well. But still don't love them. No need to change it from the traditional ones on the pro when they aren't shrinking it.

 

[csurfr]

I have no issues with it as well. But still don't love them. No need to change it from the traditional ones on the pro when they aren't shrinking it.

But they did shrink the machines. That height difference is in direct correlation to the slimmer keyboards and the ports.

2015

• Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
• Width: 14.13 inches (35.89 cm)
• Depth: 9.73 inches (24.71 cm)
• Weight: 4.49 pounds (2.04 kg)

2017

• Height: 0.61 inch (1.55 cm)
• Width: 13.75 inches (34.93 cm)
• Depth: 9.48 inches (24.07 cm)
• Weight: 4.02 pounds (1.83 kg

 

[Closingracer]

But they did shrink the machines. That height difference is in direct correlation to the slimmer keyboards and the ports.

2015

• Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
• Width: 14.13 inches (35.89 cm)
• Depth: 9.73 inches (24.71 cm)
• Weight: 4.49 pounds (2.04 kg)

2017

• Height: 0.61 inch (1.55 cm)
• Width: 13.75 inches (34.93 cm)
• Depth: 9.48 inches (24.07 cm)
• Weight: 4.02 pounds (1.83 kg

Direct correlation sure but not Macbook thin yet.

 

[lpolarityl]

I would like to know how many businesses had/have issues with Surface devices who went all in on those products. I would love the same for Apple's products. Then we could compare Apples to Lemons... err, Oranges.

/r/dataisbeautiful

Out of those failed keyboards at the OP's business, I wonder how many people eat food over their computers. The butterfly switch, we all know, has very small travel. Crumbs of any sort getting stuck under those keys would almost certainly cause an issue due to the small amount of travel. Again... metrics, would love to see that too.

Here is my theory behind this, people who get free things to use for work tend to treat them like its not theirs, so eating and getting crumbs all over the keyboard isn't worrisome "Who cares if crumbs get all over the laptop, its not MY laptop?"

I'm guilty of eating while working, especially when I'm using a desktop keyboard. When I use laptops though, I'm mindful of the keyboard and I don't eat over it. Desktop keyboards are $12 to replace, they're much more robust and you can just pop the caps off and clean crumbs out. Can't easily do that with most laptops, so... don't eat over them.

 

[Closingracer]

I have no issues with the butterfly keyboard. Do I love it? No. But I don't find it breaking or anything the 9 months I've owned mine.

 

[MichaelDT]

I was annoyed by the new design at first, but that’s just the way things go. The keyboard is fine though. MacRumors is just an echo chamber, yea the keyboard issue is greater than 0 but I’d bet far less than 1% of machines. Common sense dictates here if it were greater than 1% Apple would fix the design because in warranty failures would cost them way too much money. I still think this is from people that type way too hard and break the switches.

Most large businesses could care less, they have attrition rates for hardware which Apple regularly beats.

 

[c0ppo]

My friend owns a Macbook Pro and doesn't even know what this place is.

My sister owns MB12, 2015 version. She is on her 3rd keyboard replacement. She also doesn't know what this place is. And she doesn't complain online as well. Only to me

So your point is?

 

[Closingracer]

My sister owns MB12, 2015 version. She is on her 3rd keyboard replacement. She also doesn't know what this place is. And she doesn't complain online as well. Only to me

So your point is?

You have plenty of other people who are not on here who might not complain like you guys? If this was a much bigger issue the main stream or even the "fake news" (just find it funny Trump calls it that) would be making stories of this "issue"

 

[c0ppo]

You have plenty of other people who are not on here who might not complain like you guys? If this was a much bigger issue the main stream or even the "fake news" (just find it funny Trump calls it that) would be making stories of this "issue"

Just showing flaws in your logic. Nothing more, nothing less.
99,99% of the people don't realise macrumors exist, and they don't care. And that goes for most of mb/mbp owners as well. So if they do have a problem, they won't post it here. Same goes for if they don't have a problem.

We can speculate all day long, but one thing is for sure - these kind of problems didn't exist prior to butterfly keyboards. And I do love typing on them, so much so that I really want to one one external butterfly keyboard. But only when they do fix the issues.

Too many people having problems. And in my company as well. We got banned on purchasing new MBP because of the keyboard. And that tells a lot.

 

[Closingracer]

Just showing flaws in your logic. Nothing more, nothing less.
99,99% of the people don't realise macrumors exist, and they don't care. And that goes for most of mb/mbp owners as well. So if they do have a problem, they won't post it here. Same goes for if they don't have a problem.

We can speculate all day long, but one thing is for sure - these kind of problems didn't exist prior to butterfly keyboards. And I do love typing on them, so much so that I really want to one one external butterfly keyboard. But only when they do fix the issues.

Too many people having problems. And in my company as well. We got banned on purchasing new MBP because of the keyboard. And that tells a lot.

There is no flaws in my logic. Simply if somebody had an issue they would Google it and come upon here. Also websites like even this one and the verge or the very pro Apple BGR would say something. They aren't. Not even CNN, NY times or etc. If this was so widespread like let's say the issue where Apple was slowing phones down on purpose we would of heard something from these sites. You'll have the very vocal minority claiming this and you'll have plenty more who don't have this issue myself included.

 

[c0ppo]

There is no flaws in my logic. Simply if somebody had an issue they would Google it and come upon here. Also websites like even this one and the verge or the very pro Apple BGR would say something. They aren't. Not even CNN, NY times or etc. If this was so widespread like let's say the issue where Apple was slowing phones down on purpose we would of heard something from these sites. You'll have the very vocal minority claiming this and you'll have plenty more who don't have this issue myself included.

Here, I've googled just the first one for you, BGR:
http://bgr.com/2017/10/19/macbook-pro-2017-keyboard-not-working/

And what CNN and NYT write or do not write about, I really don't care

And yes, your logic has flaws in it. Because not all people with problems post about them online. Believe it or not

And I'm not claiming it is widespread. But what I am claiming is that these keyboards have flaws in their design. Previous keyboards didn't. This is the reason why we see so many posts and topics on mcr about this. And for previous mbp, we didn't.

Out of 12. MBP from 2016, we had problems with 7 of them. Keyboards.
I can't cite the exact numbers for 2017 version, since I really don't know how many we have. But we had problems with just one keyboard on 2017 version. Is it fixed, or my company didn't buy as many? I honestly don't know.

But what I do know is that we can't order any MBP at all. iMac? Fine. But MB or MBP? Nope, banned.
And I can assure you, it's not because of posts online.

 

[Closingracer]

Here, I've googled just the first one for you, BGR:
http://bgr.com/2017/10/19/macbook-pro-2017-keyboard-not-working/

And what CNN and NYT write or do not write about, I really don't care

And yes, your logic has flaws in it. Because not all people with problems post about them online. Believe it or not

And I'm not claiming it is widespread. But what I am claiming is that these keyboards have flaws in their design. Previous keyboards didn't. This is the reason why we see so many posts and topics on mcr about this. And for previous mbp, we didn't.

Out of 12. MBP from 2016, we had problems with 7 of them. Keyboards.
I can't cite the exact numbers for 2017 version, since I really don't know how many we have. But we had problems with just one keyboard on 2017 version. Is it fixed, or my company didn't buy as many? I honestly don't know.

But what I do know is that we can't order any MBP at all. iMac? Fine. But MB or MBP? Nope, banned.
And I can assure you, it's not because of posts online.

No flaws in it cause your talking about a vocal minority. You have an almost nonexistent other group who has no issues with it. If 5% of keyboards fails chalk it up to bad QC.

 

[Beachguy]

I have external keyboard for use with my Macs and love them.

I was at the Apple store a few months ago and made the comment that the keyboard felt lousy, and the Apple Genius (a female) said the same, that she, too, found them uncomfortabble to use.

In fairness, most computer keyboard are pretty crappy, in my many years of experience.

 

[c0ppo]

No flaws in it cause your talking about a vocal minority.

No flaws? Prove it to me that we are talking about vocal minority. I'm not even claiming that you are wrong. I'm saying that I don't know.

You're the one that claims otherwise. So either prove your statements with actual facts, or we can leave at at logic flaws, and unwillingness to admit that you can't actually prove any of your statements