This forum in of it self is a minority (of the general public) and within this minority you have some very vocal ones.No flaws? Prove it to me that we are talking about vocal minority. I'm not even claiming that you are wrong. I'm saying that I don't know.
You're the one that claims otherwise. So either prove your statements with actual facts, or we can leave at at logic flaws, and unwillingness to admit that you can't actually prove any of your statements
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MBP keyboard driving us to Windows
- Thread starter iTundra
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We are a collaborative of writers, photographers and videographers. Total of about 150 people but only about 38 of us are full time and critical for us to be in sync so 38 of us that will likely be moving to Windows. No idea how many of the others will make the jump though some will need to depending on the projects they're working on.
Mostly we each own our own equipment. Software and support varies with some individual and some through the collaborative.
As to food + laptop. Yes, likely 100% of our devices get used around food. Seriously, what good is a laptop if you can't use it in a coffee place, on a plane or with lunch when you're facing a looming deadline? That was an amazing question.
Over half of us have had some keyboard problems and maybe 5 or 6 have had serious problems. Two have recently had space bars stop working at critical times (and what caused us to consider switching); one near the beginning of a 5 hr flight when she had a lot of work to get done on the flight, and another at a client presentation where he ended up borrowing a Windows laptop to finish.
We really like Apple, but Apple's lack of response (and it does seem widespread enough that they should have responded) leaves us questioning how comfortable we are relying on them going forward. BTW, we went through the same thing when we standardized on Apple about 8 years ago due to consistent problems with Windows.
Mostly we each own our own equipment. Software and support varies with some individual and some through the collaborative.
As to food + laptop. Yes, likely 100% of our devices get used around food. Seriously, what good is a laptop if you can't use it in a coffee place, on a plane or with lunch when you're facing a looming deadline? That was an amazing question.
Over half of us have had some keyboard problems and maybe 5 or 6 have had serious problems. Two have recently had space bars stop working at critical times (and what caused us to consider switching); one near the beginning of a 5 hr flight when she had a lot of work to get done on the flight, and another at a client presentation where he ended up borrowing a Windows laptop to finish.
We really like Apple, but Apple's lack of response (and it does seem widespread enough that they should have responded) leaves us questioning how comfortable we are relying on them going forward. BTW, we went through the same thing when we standardized on Apple about 8 years ago due to consistent problems with Windows.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/9/17100594/apple-patent-dirt-debris-liquid-snacks
Per this thread, this is a perfectly timed article.
Per this thread, this is a perfectly timed article.
LOL, came here to post this article as well. My 2017 MBP is still working great though.
I can't believe we still have anyone denying that the latest keyboard designs are causing more issues than 2015 and earlier models.
It's obvious Apple's latest keyboards are not as reliable, or even liked, as much as the previous, BUT there is no keyboard apocalypse.
More people have issues than there were for previous models, that is for sure, but the older models had damned near zero issues, so the hysteria about this keyboard issue is only reletive.
Some people complain as if the keyboards will break in a months, light use. Unless Apple stores change out Macbooks every week, with the amount of nasty kids and people who mess with them in stores, if the keyboards were THAT unreliable, nobody would have a working Mac to try out. I frequent my local Apple store and there is still the same photo of some fat lady on there, so I know it's the same one from at least 7 months ago, and you almost have to fight people to try it out.
Whatever side you're on, be fair. To me, the extreme side seems to be those who've had issues. I understand part of that extremism is due to frustration, but almost everyone who's had an issue, has completely ruled out some sort of personal responsibility, in the matter.
The guy is moving to Windows... So what. Let PCRumors get the next thread on how their latest laptop sucks because employees eat over the keyboard, because it wouldn't be a useful laptop, if you couldn't. (Que in the "spilled my drink" threads...)
Sheesh.
More people have issues than there were for previous models, that is for sure, but the older models had damned near zero issues, so the hysteria about this keyboard issue is only reletive.
Some people complain as if the keyboards will break in a months, light use. Unless Apple stores change out Macbooks every week, with the amount of nasty kids and people who mess with them in stores, if the keyboards were THAT unreliable, nobody would have a working Mac to try out. I frequent my local Apple store and there is still the same photo of some fat lady on there, so I know it's the same one from at least 7 months ago, and you almost have to fight people to try it out.
Whatever side you're on, be fair. To me, the extreme side seems to be those who've had issues. I understand part of that extremism is due to frustration, but almost everyone who's had an issue, has completely ruled out some sort of personal responsibility, in the matter.
The guy is moving to Windows... So what. Let PCRumors get the next thread on how their latest laptop sucks because employees eat over the keyboard, because it wouldn't be a useful laptop, if you couldn't. (Que in the "spilled my drink" threads...)
Sheesh.
ok... I hate to be reactionary, but I don't think I can buy an MBP now until they start shipping with these.
I can't believe people let the keyboards on their $1400+ laptops get so dirty that the butterfly switch doesn't properly work due to gunk being lodged under the keys.
I went through three MacBook Pros with bad keyboards. After the third was bad it was back to a Thinkpad P51s for me.
My significant other has a space bar sticking on her 2016 and she's a total neat freak and uses her external keyboard about 80% of the time.
The Apple Store replaced my Space Bar with a new one, yet it didn't fix the problem. I've owned 5 Apple computers, never had a keyboard fail before. Let alone a keyboard fail at 15 months.
The keyboard was poorly designed, do not blame food or dust.
My workplace just started issuing some of the new MBP's. I'll have to ask our IS team what they've seen so far, but it's probably too early to know.
There's no doubt this is a real issue. I personally hate the sound and feel of the small travel on these new keyboards, and would happily carry an extra few of ounces of weight to have a keyboard that isn't horrible.
There's no doubt this is a real issue. I personally hate the sound and feel of the small travel on these new keyboards, and would happily carry an extra few of ounces of weight to have a keyboard that isn't horrible.
If Microsoft or someone else manages to put out a 15" tablet with good battery life running full Win10 then I'm getting that for my next work computer. There's so many things I don't like about my MBP and I'm already using a 60% size mechanical keyboard on top of the MBP one because it feels so much better to type on. I don't need a laptop format computer at all, a tablet would do since I'm already carrying a keyboard with me.
Go to any coffee shop in the country and we'll see it all of the time. It actually surprises me how many people aren't even remotely concerned with spilling something or getting things under the keys. Personally I try not to eat anything near my MbP(s), and usually only drink things with lids on them.
All of that said, these are the first machines that I have ever purchased keyboard covers for, but I think that's mainly do to my OCD with shiny keyboard keys. I'd like to keep them matte black for as long as I can.
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I need to stop reading your posts because I find them to be exactly what I'm thinking as well. There was a lady next to me in a local coffee shop (not a Starbucks oddly enough) who's 2016 MbP looked absolutely gnarly. I wanted to hand her a moist towelette to wipe if off.
That article you linked to earlier was interesting. I'm curious though. . . when it refers to "blowing out the debris" where is it going to go? Spit back out at the user?
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While I've not had any problems with my keyboards, I wonder if Apple explored using the keys that are on the Magic Keyboards that are currently on offer. I find those essentially flawless, low travel, and haven't come across anyone saying that theirs had problems.
edit: ^^The above is an insanely long run-on sentence. Too much cold-brew coffee this afternoon.
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There are no less than three threads on this forum, right now, who's subject line is something related to a keyboard problem. And, if you visit the Apple.com support site you'll fine pretty much the same thing. Yes, there is a keyboard problem and Apple is not doing much to explain it or worst yet fix it,.
You can't factually say "Apple is doing nothing much to explain or worse yet fix it" because 1) they ARE replacing affected keyboards under warranty, and 2) none of us are privy to the inner workings of Apple and what they are or are not developing for future products.
You might be able to get away with "Apple hasn't acknowledged that this is a problem", but again, the number of complaints on the forum don't necessarily equate to thousands or more with problems out of the what, millions(?) that they have shipped.
Replacing a user's keyboard multiple times is not fixing the problem. That's the easy and most expeditious way to mask a problem. I could care less about the inner workings of Apple, but as an owner of a 2016 MBP I'm very interested in what Apple is doing to fix the problem with their keyboard. It's pretty arrogant for a company of Apple's stature to simply not publicly address the issue.
You are suggesting that this is some massive conspiracy, and my counterpoint to you is that we don't know how widespread the problem is or isn't. Let's speculate that Apple sold a million MacBook Pro's of the 2016 model (the number is most likely higher) and there are how many people on the internet complaining about it? A hundred? a thousand at most? That's nothing in all honesty. There is nothing for them to disclose or admit. Faults happen. That's the way technology goes sometimes. Do you honestly think that Apple didn't do some sort of testing on this before they released it into the wild? They didn't just dream this thing up and say "this is good enough ship it".
And if it's the same people over and over and over complaining about keyboard after keyboard failing, maybe it's time to examine their use case as to why. If it were me, and I had to replace three keyboards in the span of a year, I'd look at what I was doing that might cause it. As mentioned above, so many people eat, drink, etc near their machines. Is it everyone? No. Is it a lot of people? I'd gather yes. There are all kinds of things that can damage a keyboard. You have to admit that much. Not everything that goes wrong has to be a "gate" or a "coverup".
Once again, bold statement. And once again, no actual evidence, facts, anything? Forums are a minority, that one is true. But prove it to me that there is only a 'vocal minority' ?
P.S.
No need. Your logic is flawless, and your reasoning is beyond anything I can comprehend at the moment. Have a nice night
And I can't believe that those same people never had issues with their previous MBP's. It must be their fault, it can't be that Apple simply made a very lousy designed keyboard
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I will say that I've read enough of your posts to find you credible enough to think that you didn't own these for very long before they started exhibiting problems either. It's unfortunate that went through that in any case. A friend of mine has a ThinkPad Carbon or something or other from work, and she's pretty happy with it. Not sure about all of Lenovo's different models, but the screen on hers looks like it is literally attached to the glass / plastic covering the display if you know what I mean. It looks seamless, and has with a matte finish of sorts. I kind of dig it.
I'm very new to the MBP "world". This is my first experience with a laptop/notebook not a Microsoft machine (and I've used them all over the past 40 years). Maybe my expectations of Apple as a corporate entity and as a hardware manufacturer is to high. I don't recall Apple having similar hardware issues in the past that have seemingly gone "unaddressed" in some sort of official technical note or acknowledgement. I agree with you, this is probably not a "gate" or coverup. I still maintain although that if one scans the "forums" (Apple's and others) there are an awful lot of discussion from many users about keyboard issues. Many users claiming they're on their third or fourth keyboard. I just expected Apple to have addressed the issue with "this is the problem" and "here is how we'll fix it". I still don't think replacing a keyboard multiple time is a fix. Sorry, just don't.
You can tell by the amount of posts or the lack thereof.Once again, bold statement. And once again, no actual evidence, facts, anything? Forums are a minority, that one is true. But prove it to me that there is only a 'vocal minority' ?
P.S.
No need. Your logic is flawless, and your reasoning is beyond anything I can comprehend at the moment. Have a nice night
And I can't believe that those same people never had issues with their previous MBP's. It must be their fault, it can't be that Apple simply made a very lousy designed keyboard
If you read the forums you'll come to see that there are/were all sorts of "rumors" we'll say that the 2017 keyboards were changed a bit over the 2016 models (though I believe that an iFixit teardown disputes or disproves this and it was just a keycap change to the option and control keys), but these keyboards are what are being put in the repaired ones.
I will be the first to admit that I bought the 2016 as soon as it was released, had some issues with sleep / wake with my LG UltraFine and ended up returning the machine and monitor as Apple hadn't sorted the problem. Now with my 2017(s) it's been relatively pain free. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with some machines at all, but I don't see Apple saying "we're sorry about the problem" until (and if) it reaches the level of the MacBook graphics card / anti-glare coating fiasco of a few years ago. Apple isn't faultless, that's for certain. But I don't think I've seen them not address an issue if it became large enough. What that number may or may not be no-one knows. I'm sure there is a cost-benefit analysis internally on it. At least, I would like to think so.