MBP keyboard driving us to Windows

[Mockletoy]

That is the truly ridiculous part here..
Apple created this problem themselves, for an exceptionally minimal thickness gain.



I've started to realize over the last few years that a divorce from Apple may be coming as they seem to have their eyes on customers that aren't me.

Yeah, I find myself frustrated with Apple because they don't want to sell me what I want to buy.

Well, that's my problem, not theirs.

I want a simple, expandable tower running macOS that I can dual with Windows to play some games. I'd like to be able to add my own storage and GPU, etc. If I want to do that, I have to build a Hackintosh (I have a 4790K/GTX 1080 machine that runs High Sierra perfectly). I'd be happy to buy such a machine from Apple, but they have no interest in selling me one.

I want a notebook that isn't the thinnest or lightest on the planet, but which can do the things I want to do. But they don't seem interested in selling me that, either.

So, again, the problem is my expectations, I guess. The real problem is that I quite like macOS, I have an iPhone and an iPad and really enjoy all the integration and the ecosystem, and using a device that only has Windows feels like a 2nd-rate, incomplete experience to me.

tl;dr It occurs to me that the computers I want to buy and use don't actually exist, and I'm irrationally frustrated at Apple for not building them for me.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@Mockletoy You're being too hard on yourself.

The desktop side is one thing (I have a nearly identical Hack to you it sounds like btw), but on the laptops, they've made an objective mistake.

It's flat out bad design to make the keyboard changes they've made, simply on the reliability and repairability front. It's not good design to have to replace the entire top half of a computer simply to address a single broken key. Key switch and key cap issues are to be expected occasionally with any laptop and the way they designed it is simply bad. Full stop.

Also, there are lots of people all across the design, podcast, video pro, and more, communities clamoring for a more expansive lineup. It's simply silly that all their laptops have converged on the exact same formula of "as thin as possible". Not every laptop mission should or does prioritize that goal to this level. All things being equal and needs addressed, sure every user wants something as thin and sexy as practical, but it definitely can go too far to where you're just stripping out very useful design choices and ports and key switches in a furious rush to "make it MOAR SEXY THIN!!".

They really just need to add back in some diversity within the laptop lines.

I firmly believe this was a leadership mistake. They got so enthralled with the trajectory of iOS and iPad's at one point that I think they wanted to be in a "post Mac" world about now (or soon) and it simply isn't here, or even close, for a lot of reasons (entirely different topic).

 

[Mockletoy]

Yeah, it's great that Apple has decided to cater to the hyper thin and light market, I just wish they wouldn't cater only to that market, especially if, like you said, doing so means making objectively bad (and consumer-hostile) engineering decisions.

I mean, if you just say this sentence out loud it sounds bonkers:

"A single key on your $4,000 notebook computer has failed. We're going to have to throw half of it away. Since you're out of warranty, it's going to cost you hundreds of dollars and you'll be without your machine for days."

The SSD in my 2013 MacBook Pro failed once, just out of the blue. Working one minute, surfing the web, and totally, irretrievably dead the next. I took it to Apple and they replaced the SSD. If the SSD fails on newer machines, you have to throw the entire, otherwise perfectly functional motherboard away.

That's just ... silly.

 

[Newtons Apple]

I will say that I've read enough of your posts to find you credible enough to think that you didn't own these for very long before they started exhibiting problems either. It's unfortunate that went through that in any case. A friend of mine has a ThinkPad Carbon or something or other from work, and she's pretty happy with it. Not sure about all of Lenovo's different models, but the screen on hers looks like it is literally attached to the glass / plastic covering the display if you know what I mean. It looks seamless, and has with a matte finish of sorts. I kind of dig it.

Two of the devices worked fine for several weeks before keys stopped working. The third and final slap in the face was defective right out of the box.

 

[bruinsrme]

The keyboard certainly drove me to windows via boot camp

 

[lambertjohn]

The business disruptions caused by keyboard problems on so many of our MBP's over the past year is causing us to switch to Windows and Windows machines. Too many instances of people trying to do work but their keyboard makes it difficult or impossible or slow. Then having to be without a machine for some period while they are fixed. And on top of this, having to pay hundreds of dollars for the fix (and in two cases on top of people having to buy new MBP's in order to get work done while repairs are being done) that is the fault of Apple.

Perhaps more than anything it's the lack of appropriate response from Apple that concerns us. This is clearly a design/manufacturing error. It is Apple's fault. It is not normal use, wear and tear. Apple should have found a solution—a fix or new machine with new design—and offered that to every owner. They should also have introduced a new design and communicated that it insures people that this will no longer be a significant problem going forward.

That said, some are quite happy about this decision, particularly those who prefer Android phones but were forced in to our Apple eco-system. And at least one Surface aficionado.

Competition among various hardware manufacturers makes Windows machines reliable and less expensive (and same for Android devices?). Microsoft has gotten on the ball lately and made Windows world much more desirable. We were all fine with paying a premium for Apple, but not if the result is less useable than other options.

I was in Costco yesterday and they had a Lenovo X1 Carbon on display, the 2018 version. So I played around on it a bit, and I have to tell you, the keyboard was the best I've ever typed on. After about ten minutes of fast, accurate typing, with no bottoming out and no loud clackety clack, my brain started to contemplate dumping my MBP and switching over to the X1. Now I know why people always boast about Thinkpad keyboards being the best in the industry. On the X1 at least, the keyboard was fantastic. Everything else about the computer was pretty nice as well: 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, 14" matte screen, tons of ports, 2 lbs., all for $1599. But dang, that keyboard; Lenovo definitely got it right. So why can't Apple?

 

[csurfr]

Two of the devices worked fine for several weeks before keys stopped working. The third and final slap in the face was defective right out of the box.

That’s insane. I’d be on the verge of losing my mind.
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I was in Costco yesterday and they had a Lenovo X1 Carbon on display, the 2018 version. So I played around on it a bit, and I have to tell you, the keyboard was the best I've ever typed on. After about ten minutes of fast, accurate typing, with no bottoming out and no loud clackety clack, my brain started to contemplate dumping my MBP and switching over to the X1. Now I know why people always boast about Thinkpad keyboards being the best in the industry. On the X1 at least, the keyboard was fantastic. Everything else about the computer was pretty nice as well: 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, 14" matte screen, tons of ports, 2 lbs., all for $1599. But dang, that keyboard; Lenovo definitely got it right. So why can't Apple?

I normally don’t take too much stock in what internet reviews say, but Engadget echoed your comments identically. They mentioned getting the upgraded display model would be the best bet. I love how the matte screen on those is literally fused with the cover of it (so to speak).

Do you recall how much it was?

 

[Newtons Apple]

That’s insane. I’d be on the verge of losing my mind.
QUOTE]

I was a MacBook Pro user for years and years but had much software that HAD to run off Windows so I would use BootCamp. Was so excited about the new MacBooks with the new touchbar but Apple screwed the goose and my keyboard sucked. At time would make screeching noises when pressing on a key. Worst is when some keys no longer worked sometime. After three times I figured that Apple was trying to tell me something, from reading MR it looks like I was far from being the only person with keyboard problems.

 

[Velin]

The Macbook Pro keyboard is atrocious. I hate everything about it. So much so, for the first time in a decade, I'm about to buy a PC laptop. Thank you for the rec on the X1 Carbon, going to check it out right now.

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

Too funny I found this thread...

After the "b" key crapped out on my 2016 MBP 15" for the second time, I made the decision to switch to Windows. You know, paying $2700 and having the keyboard fail twice within 16 months of use is a no-no.

The really funny thing is that I thought the switch to Windows would be more traumatic... But it has been pretty smooth. It is not as polished as MacOS, but it is not bad neither. PLUS I have far more options hardware wise, I gain touch screen, and I save about $1000 for a premium laptop, so... pretty happy with the switch 🙂

 

[turbineseaplane]

Too funny I found this thread...

After the "b" key crapped out on my 2016 MBP 15" for the second time, I made the decision to switch to Windows. You know, paying $2700 and having the keyboard fail twice within 16 months of use is a no-no.

The really funny thing is that I thought the switch to Windows would be more traumatic... But it has been pretty smooth. It is not as polished as MacOS, but it is not bad neither. PLUS I have far more options hardware wise, I gain touch screen, and I save about $1000 for a premium laptop, so... pretty happy with the switch 🙂

What'd you get?