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MBP Keyboard is a total FAIL
- Thread starter CaptRB
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I have no idea if I should keep mine now.It seems fine but I do not want to run into multiple returns or repairs over the years, that would suck big time.
I'll be brutally honest. If it were me, I'd return it. The keyboard design is faulty and I really believe the chances of running into this issue is quite high. The fact that Apple still doesn't have a fix is not a good sign.
It's not dust. Had failures and symptoms within a week.
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Perfectly said. Agree on all points.
What it gives you, is 3 years of coverage, knowing there's an issue with the keyboard.
As there is - yet - no data available how many keyboards fail and why, I would not lose sleep over it.
If you don't need an MBP at this point and are concerned about this, don't buy one.
If you have one, enjoy it.
If you don't need an MBP at this point and are concerned about this, don't buy one.
If you have one, enjoy it.
On the other hand if this problem is as widespread as some of us here think it is, likely Apple will step in and do a "good-will" repair out of warranty like it does with its flaky dgpus. It's still a gamble though. Of course, the first ones out of warranty will likely need to eat the cost and then get reimbursed at a later date...
There is a big issue going on in this thread...
1. The thread was about a 2016/first-gen keyboard. It has issues. The OP and everyone else who hates the keyboard is slow to acknowledge this, instead telling people with new 2017 keyboards that they should return their units.
2. People are acting like 2nd gen keys were a stealthy fix. They were not. Apple said they had improved the mechanism. iFixit did a tear down and found the keys are redesigned.
3. We have no idea how statistically significant these problems are. When you go to a thread called "MBP Keyboard is FAIL" and the thread starter has posted 15+ times reiterating the same complaint, it's easy to get carried away.
I'm buying AppleCare for my 2017 13" MBP TB, but I would have bought it anyway. The keyboard is awesome, and after 2 weeks with it I'm ready to say I like it better than my previous retina MacBook Pro (2012 15"). Something juicy about the mechanical clicks. It reminds my brain of my mechanical keyboard, and I can do 85 WPM now on 10fastfingers, only 10 shy of my record.
1. The thread was about a 2016/first-gen keyboard. It has issues. The OP and everyone else who hates the keyboard is slow to acknowledge this, instead telling people with new 2017 keyboards that they should return their units.
2. People are acting like 2nd gen keys were a stealthy fix. They were not. Apple said they had improved the mechanism. iFixit did a tear down and found the keys are redesigned.
3. We have no idea how statistically significant these problems are. When you go to a thread called "MBP Keyboard is FAIL" and the thread starter has posted 15+ times reiterating the same complaint, it's easy to get carried away.
I'm buying AppleCare for my 2017 13" MBP TB, but I would have bought it anyway. The keyboard is awesome, and after 2 weeks with it I'm ready to say I like it better than my previous retina MacBook Pro (2012 15"). Something juicy about the mechanical clicks. It reminds my brain of my mechanical keyboard, and I can do 85 WPM now on 10fastfingers, only 10 shy of my record.
I thought only the regular MacBooks keys where changed between 2016-2017 while the mbps kept the same?
This thread is about the durability of the second generation butterfly mechanism keyboards used in both the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pros.
The first generation butterfly mechanism keyboards were only used in the 2015 and 2016 MacBooks.
The OP was actually a big fan of the typing experience on the second generation keyboard, but this thread isn’t about that, it’s about the reliability of the keyboards -
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/02/21/2016-macbook-pro-keyboard-issues/
There have been suggestions that Apple have made improvements to the keyboards used in the 2017 MacBook Pros, but we don’t know if they address the reliability issues. The fact that Apple have stated that they are still collecting data on this issue suggests otherwise.
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I guess data collecting is better than ignoring the keyboard problems but not having a fix on the horizon is very discouraging considering how long Apple has already had for "data collecting."
Starting at 41:10 Casey Liss discusses fixing the problem he was having with his 12" MacBook keyboard with compressed air. None of the guys from the Accidental Tech Podcast are particularly happy with the unreliable nature of the butterfly keyboard.
http://atp.fm/episodes/237
According to the iFixit MacBook Pro 13" Function Keys Late 2016 Teardown the second generation butterfly keys were introduced then.
"The Butterfly 2.0 keys are indeed updated! Check this sweet MacBook/MacBook Pro (with function keys) rollover!"
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Function+Keys+Late+2016+Teardown/72415
I haven't seen any reliable source mentioning a new butterfly mechanism being introduced for the 2017 models although a few people have mentioned that the the key response feels slightly different. However, it is not at all unusual for a company to make design tweaks and/or manufacturing changes with no announcement or change in part numbers. It seems doubtful that any surefire fix has been enabled as people are reporting keyboard problems with the 2017 models.
Heat has been the triggering issue for the people I know who have experienced keyboard issues. Blowing out the keyboard with compressed air has proved to be only a very temporary solution for two of them. It didn't work at all for two others who bothered to try it.
It's quite likely that if you use the keyboard in close proximity to others that they may not be equally enchanted with the noisy mechanical clicks.
Where exactly are multiple people reporting keyboard problems with the 2017 model? Three months after the 2016 release we had lots of reports about the keyboard being bad. The 2017 model is on the market for 3 months now and I do not see reports about it to be honest. The problems with sticky keys on the 2017 model when they get hot seem to be solved.
As someone who is starting to experience these issues, I am very disappointed with this keyboard and how it has performed over the past couple months. My typing speed is so much better on my old keyboards and they don’t have keys that malfunction or just don’t register properly. Glad that I have AppleCare since I will be filing a claim with them later this evening and hopefully will get this keyboard replaced.
You would be crazy to not purchase it given the (limited) amount known regarding this issue.
The thing is, I have never ONCE had to get any Apple laptop fixed due to a failure, and I'm taking since Powerbook Duo times. I had batteries go bad, broke a screen twice, and that's it. To add irony to the equation, I purchased Apple Care for my early 2011 MBP 15" with dGPU - never used it, the GPU never failed, my wife is still using it...
It's not about the cost, I just really dislike paying for a product that is designed to make profit for the insurance company, not the purchaser. Again, if the keyboard does become an issue, Apple will be forced to do something about it - we are talking about many models here. Apple Care or not. If on the other hand the issue is more limited than these forums are leading on, then a full year of original warranty should be plenty of time to make or break it.
It's not about the cost, I just really dislike paying for a product that is designed to make profit for the insurance company, not the purchaser. Again, if the keyboard does become an issue, Apple will be forced to do something about it - we are talking about many models here. Apple Care or not. If on the other hand the issue is more limited than these forums are leading on, then a full year of original warranty should be plenty of time to make or break it.
This is how this panned out...
Initial store visit:
I was offered a repair under warranty. Genius Bar tech was well aware of the issue and said they are "flooded" by keyboard issues. They offered to "let me buy a new one" to use for duration of repair process and I declined.
Email:
Sent an email to Apple letting them know that there was no way I could trust the MBP going forward and I felt that my money had been stolen. I promised to do what I could to let folks know that the issue was clearly widespread.
Customer Support report:
Reported as above using their customer review system after my store visit.
Phone contact:
They contacted ME to discuss issue. I explained the job I'm on and how this had me boxed in. Rep on phone clearly indicated that the keyboards were a serious issue and that Apple was trying to figure out what to do. I was put on hold and spoke to a supervisor of some sort. This dialogue mirrored the 1st, ending with him asking me to return to the store with the laptop for another look. But an hour later I was contacted by another Apple rep and things changed.
Resolution:
I was refunded full MSRP on the 15" MBP that was bought in February. I had paid 2250.00 for it and no tax, so I came out ahead on that. I immediately ordered a iMac 27 i7 with top level graphic card for 2500 and then grabbed a new MB Air for my portable needs. The manager helping me with this indicated in NO uncertain terms that the keyboard issue is serious and widespread. He also said Apple is expected to do something about it, perhaps as early as next week.
I'm sorry to say that the keyboard issue IS very likely to effect a majority of machines over time. That's not MY opinion, but rather based on the statements made by folks at Apple multiple times. At no point did they deny that the issue was widespread; very much the opposite.
So...I'm happy they took care of me, though I loved the idea of a single system solution. For now, it's not to be. I back to writing on the Air and that's fine. It's an i7 with 512 gb, so pretty snappy. The powerhouse desktop will take care of everything else with ease.
R.
Initial store visit:
I was offered a repair under warranty. Genius Bar tech was well aware of the issue and said they are "flooded" by keyboard issues. They offered to "let me buy a new one" to use for duration of repair process and I declined.
Email:
Sent an email to Apple letting them know that there was no way I could trust the MBP going forward and I felt that my money had been stolen. I promised to do what I could to let folks know that the issue was clearly widespread.
Customer Support report:
Reported as above using their customer review system after my store visit.
Phone contact:
They contacted ME to discuss issue. I explained the job I'm on and how this had me boxed in. Rep on phone clearly indicated that the keyboards were a serious issue and that Apple was trying to figure out what to do. I was put on hold and spoke to a supervisor of some sort. This dialogue mirrored the 1st, ending with him asking me to return to the store with the laptop for another look. But an hour later I was contacted by another Apple rep and things changed.
Resolution:
I was refunded full MSRP on the 15" MBP that was bought in February. I had paid 2250.00 for it and no tax, so I came out ahead on that. I immediately ordered a iMac 27 i7 with top level graphic card for 2500 and then grabbed a new MB Air for my portable needs. The manager helping me with this indicated in NO uncertain terms that the keyboard issue is serious and widespread. He also said Apple is expected to do something about it, perhaps as early as next week.
I'm sorry to say that the keyboard issue IS very likely to effect a majority of machines over time. That's not MY opinion, but rather based on the statements made by folks at Apple multiple times. At no point did they deny that the issue was widespread; very much the opposite.
So...I'm happy they took care of me, though I loved the idea of a single system solution. For now, it's not to be. I back to writing on the Air and that's fine. It's an i7 with 512 gb, so pretty snappy. The powerhouse desktop will take care of everything else with ease.
R.
I'm not calling BS.. but it will be wild if Apple admits to this a week before new iPhone announcement. I have over $3K on 2 Apple gift cards waiting to see/know what I want to do. Leaning towards 2015 15" 2.5 refurb. Considered the iMac/Air combo thing.
It was also hinted that a "new" Air could be coming (I have my doubts). But after this mess, I'll stick with "old tech" and let the iMac do the hard stuff. The Air is the best laptop Apple currently makes. It's not a great value, but it works and I don't worry about keyboards.
I have the Air connected to my Dell 4K screen at the moment and I'm processing large Nikon files with no issues. I can't do batches as large as I could with the MBP, but this is workable until the iMac ships.
Once Apple works out the kinks, I'll be thrilled to get a MBP again.
R.
Thanks for posting your follow up, however I wish you had been a little more clear in what you posted above. So you are sorry that the keyboard issue is very likely to effect a majority of machines over time...what machines are you referring to, the 2016 MBP or are you lumping 2017 into this as well?
Air models can have problem with "stains" from keyboard on the screen, there is still no Apple Repair Program for this
almost all Apple laptops models has some problems on the past few years back
I've heard about screen marking and seen it a few times. I'm convinced that this is related to how the user handles and carries the laptop. It's not exclusive to the Air.
Every machine I've seen with the issue (or heard about) was carried in a backpack or some other type of bad where it was not held tight in place. My machines are kept in TIGHT fitted leather cases and never once has their been the slightest mark on any machine.
My son took his old 15" to a friends house in his backpack and WHAM there were a few marks on the screen. Seemed pretty obvious to me after that. With that said, I think apple SHOULD make the screens more durable, just like they should make the keyboards better!
R.
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I asked several times if it would be "safe" to simply get the newer model and I was told no. Perhaps all three folks at Apple were wrong, but I see no reason to assume the issue is repaired or improved. I need my machines for work, so I took the safest route. MB Air and the 5K 27" iMac.
I wish everyone luck going forward.
R.
It sounds like they may announce a recall, but I’m sure they will only do that when they’re satisfied that they've found a solution to the problem.
We know that they have already modified the second generation butterfly mechanism in the 2017 MacBook Pros -https://ifixit.org/blog/9185/2017-apple-laptop/
It’s possible that they have been trying several different versions of modified keyboards and monitoring the repair rates. This could be what they mean by being in a data collecting phase.
They will know from the serial number what keyboard is fitted to a computer and once they are satisfied that there are no problems with a particular design they can roll out the fix to any affected machines.
We know that they have already modified the second generation butterfly mechanism in the 2017 MacBook Pros -https://ifixit.org/blog/9185/2017-apple-laptop/
It’s possible that they have been trying several different versions of modified keyboards and monitoring the repair rates. This could be what they mean by being in a data collecting phase.
They will know from the serial number what keyboard is fitted to a computer and once they are satisfied that there are no problems with a particular design they can roll out the fix to any affected machines.
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