Memory in New $1099 iMac is Soldered and Not Upgradable

[LordVic]

$799 machine. If that.

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It's designed that way. Mavericks is intended to use all the memory that's available, so it does use more than other OS versions instead of just letting extra memory just sit there unused. Using memory shouldn't be a problem, only if the machine is running out of memory and doing a lot of swapping.

this is not a new behaviour of OS's though. Most modern OS' do this sort of memory caching. That is why I want to see the actual screenshots instead of jjust people saying "I ONLY HAVE 100mb free!!!!"

I want to see how much is being cached and how much page file people are going into.

One of the greatest issues with this form of caching and the reporting is that it isn't straight forward for the average person to understand. They see that "free" number, and assume, that they've blown through their RAM usage.

hence why i want to confirm when people shout that 4gb isn't enough, or 8gb isn't enough, or 16gb isn't enough.

Realistically, average everyday usage should not be using much more than 2.5-3.5gb of usage. unless you've got a few hundred tabs on a browser open, or using something with a notoriously large memory footprint.

my question for asking is purely empirical knowledge, not to use for judgement for or against. HOwever, I don't understand the logic of going to the extreme micro-soldering laptop ULV parts when space and power constraints aren't as strong. There's a trade off here. You're not getting a better computer. They're opting to go with ULV parts, soldered, non replacable, all in one circuit board where it is completely not required.

 

[avanpelt]

Low-end hardware has almost always had a limit to expandability. This is Apple's low-end iMac so I'm not surprised.

What is surprising, though, is the fact that they're soldering the RAM and the SSD on the retina MacBook Pros, as well. I hope my early-2011 MBP keeps trucking for many years to come because I certainly don't like the idea of spending $2,500+ on a new MacBook Pro only to get a machine where the SSD and the RAM are not upgradable. That's complete B.S.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Mediocre update... I expect something big this year. Retina iMac, retina Thunderbolt Display, retina MacBook Air... I can only hope.

I wouldn't call this an update. This is just an attempt to make the iMac more affordable to some consumer segments with minimal requirements.

Power users would never buy this unit, not because of the soldered memory but due to the lower processor it has.

I don't understand why so many people are crying in the forum about this. It's not like Apple replaced all there models with soldered-RAM versions.

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Low-end hardware has almost always had a limit to expandability. This is Apple's low-end iMac so I'm not surprised.

What is surprising, though, is the fact that they're soldering the RAM and the SSD on the retina MacBook Pros, as well. I hope my early-2011 MBP keeps trucking for many years to come because I certainly don't like the idea of spending $2,500+ on a new MacBook Pro only to get a machine where the SSD and the RAM are not upgradable. That's complete B.S.

And I agree with you. If they are going to do something like that, they should remove the "Pro" from the product name. The Pros like to upgrade their hardware.

 

[thehustleman]

Consumers don't want upgradeable parts. They don't care. This is a sensible move from Apple and I support it 100%.

the outrage in this post is proof positive that people DO want upgradeable parts.

Problem is why go through the trouble of soldering it in just to make it not upgradeable? Why not just insert it and move on?

That's a false assumption. There are lots of us who would like to be able to upgrade our Apple computers. Specially considering the kinda absurd premium prices Apple asks for if we want to upgrade them prior the purchase.

Edit: And what advantages did this move bring to the consumer, to deserve your 100% support?

none of course

Apple should make their stuff great not cripple it.

Even the low end iMac should have fully upgradeable RAM.

But I guess you could argue that the iPhone's RAM can't be upgraded, either!

Exactly. No need to make a computer without the ability to upgrade ram.

Then to charge so much is ridiculous.

I just built a much more powerful computer recently than any iMac for a lot less. Apple are smart business people usually, thus is just a bad move.

If this were $699, maybe $799, the price would be justified. But at $1099, it just has way too many compromises.

Even stranger - the CPU they put in is more expensive than the CPU in the $1299 iMac! This machine makes zero financial sense - to Apple or the consumer.

Basically

 

[the8thark]

If it were $799 or so, I think it'd be a great entry level (for Apple) machine. But for $200 less than the regular 21"? No way. Too high.

This is just like the 5C vs the 5S pricing wise. People will pay the little extra. Apart from education and a few small businesses I don't see who want this iMac

 

[k1121j]

Bummer

i guess history does repeat it self computer used to do this and changed i guess we have come full circle.... this is not good considering its cheeper to add ram later when prices fall and programs require more over time.... bad apple

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Somehow they've made IBM's original approach (1980) finally work. Make it proprietary and force them to buy new when then want to expand.

STUPID.

I got 7 years and counting off my 2007 MBP. I used to replace my PC every two years, whenever new Windows updates/upgrades started to make it crawl.

I strongly believe I got more than my money's worth on my 2007 MBP.
The only reason why I would replace it is to be able to add more RAM; this model only supports up to 4GB RAM.
Mavericks works very well on it, and I do expect Yosemite to do the same.

 

[edgonzalez32]

It's obviously not just a standard RAM slot with some solder involved, it's the modules straight onto the board.

Right. All the better to make something that was so easy to upgrade in any computer non-upgradeable anymore.

Look I get the solution would be don't buy the computer or don't worry about it. If my mom had this Mac for example and a stick went dead. Now instead of me just simply opening it up I have to bring that **** to apple?

I feel like nobody is seeing a problem with this stupid trend apple has started with ram. I get everyone loves the company but holy ****.

 

[3282868]

"U Can't Touch This" popped in my head with different lyrics while reading the comments (mainly the chorus).

You can't Do That

My, my, my Mac hits me so hard
Makes me say "Oh my Lord"
Thank you for costing me
An arm and a leg and 1G
It feels wrong, when you know you're screwed
With a Mac that you know you can't unscrew
And I know as such
And this is a Mac, uh, you can't touch

What if I want to upgrade my RAM? (You can't do that)
Yeah, um, what about the hard drive? (You can't do that)
What if it fails? (Get AppleCare)
Then it's a more expensive Mac I can't upgrade? (Like vaporware)

 

[WestonHarvey1]

the outrage in this post is proof positive that people DO want upgradeable parts.

Problem is why go through the trouble of soldering it in just to make it not upgradeable? Why not just insert it and move on?

You either solder the RAM or your solder the socket that the RAM plugs into. It's not really saving any work, especially because its done by a pick and place robot and a reflow oven.

 

[AstronomyiPhone]

8 GB? That's not bad, even if it isn't user-upgradeable. The $1199 base model mid-2011 iMac I bought two years ago came with 4 GB of RAM and two extra slots.

 

[ChrisCW11]

Why the shock?

This is classic Apple, period.

First, of course, I think iFixit is a useless website that is trying to lend credence to simply a childish desire to tear things apart. Few consumer electronics these days are designed to be user-fixable, and companies like Apple have also made it a point to prevent user upgrades, so the constant shock from iFixit when an Apple device cannot be user upgraded or repaired is a little more then contrived these days.

If your $1099 iMac stops working, bring it back to the store and get another one, period.

I'd rather a company be responsible in taking back broken or deprecated products and refurbishing, recycling or disposing of them properly rather then this idea that someone wanting to keep a product running 10 years past the "Best Before" date and then sticking it in a closet for a few more years before it ends up in a landfill because it has no intrinsic value.

However the incredulity that people have that Apple glues and soldiers stuff into their products and charges a lot for upgrades at the point of retail is also very contrived. Apple is not going to sell you something cheap so you can upgrade it to match a higher priced model, but for 1/2 the money. Apple has clearly separated their models and product lines to encourage people that want more to pay for it when they buy the product, not opt into something better in the future. It's why Apple can get away with something like the iPad where they can charge $100 for 16gb more storage when the actual cost to Apple is like $0.50.

Bottom line is, this new iMac is for your Mom, period. Its not for anybody that knows anything about computers because if they did they will be annoyed by the compromises Apple places on their entry level product and so will just opt to spend a few hundred more on a real iMac, which is what Apple wants most people to do. Complaining about it does nothing, vote with your wallets.

Which brings me to my last point, if you want value then don't buy Apple, period.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

While I think this new configuration option is under-powered and over-priced (no surprise from Apple), I've pretty much written off upgrading ANY of the newer iMac's because they are practically impossible to open up in the first place!

Thin is great and all...but to cement things shut and make it impossible to get to is the real problem. The fact they soldered the memory is doesn't really matter.

 

[joe-h2o]

Are you serious? It's so you are forced to pay Apple prices on more RAM at time of purchase. You pay Apple $200 for RAM you can buy yourself for $50. There is no other reason besides dollars and cents in Apple's pockets.

That might make sense if there was a BTO for more RAM on this model. There isn't.

This is a straightforward cost-cutting measure for assembly - it's quicker and more cost effective to assemble since the RAM is added to the board by a machine during logic board manufacture, then a person simply installs the board in one go, rather than installing the board then fitting two RAM DIMMs. It reduces part count, assembly procedure, simplifies PCB layout, which are all benefits on a model like this.

Apple will have done its homework and it knows that the people who will buy this machine will never even think about upgrading it.

For those who require upgrade capacity, they provide that in other models.

Sheesh. The way people are acting on here you make it sound like Apple are forcing you to buy this model at gunpoint and banning you from the other 21" iMac or the 27" iMac that they also still sell (that will likely be upgraded when the parts in the pipeline are ready - it's obviously not rocket science to see why they haven't done so yet).

 

[deeddawg]

Bottom line is, this new iMac is for your Mom, period. Its not for anybody that knows anything about computers

Bingo. This is what's going on Sally Soccermom's kitchen counter/desk to type up the next PTA meeting brochure and post her swim-meet iphone photos on Facebook. Or it's going to Grandma's so she can Facetime with Little Lilly.

That system is utterly NOT aimed at the typical MacRumors denizen. LEst we forget, Propellerheads are not Apple's core target market.

 

[joe-h2o]

the outrage in this post is proof positive that people DO want upgradeable parts.

No, the outrage in this post is proof that internet nerds will whine and moan about a machine that they would never have bought in the first place.

If you want upgradable RAM (unlike the bulk of the customers that this model is aimed at) then buy a machine that has that feature.

It's not difficult.

 

[mozumder]

the outrage in this post is proof positive that people DO want upgradeable parts.

I don't see any outrage besides from geeks, and their opinions are the least relevant.

Always do the opposite of whatever a geek wants, because a geek will only lead you down the path of geekdom, which is a horrible thing.

NOBODY is ever going to want to upgrade their iMac to more than 8GB memory.

There is never going to be a demand for consumer PCs with more than 8GB memory... ever. (Not even within a few years.)

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Apple is not going to sell you something cheap so you can upgrade it to match a higher priced model, but for 1/2 the money. Apple has clearly separated their models and product lines to encourage people that want more to pay for it when they buy the product, not opt into something better in the future.

I agree w/ you on the faux shock of the new iMac, but I don't see truth in the above statement. Even when Macs were highly upgradable I doubt anyone but people that visit sites like MR, a very small subset of the computer using population, upgraded after purchase. People paid Apple or Dell or HP's ransom and that was that until they needed a new machine.

I don't think soldering RAM or SSDs is used as a form of upgrade extortion, but rather used to increase production efficiency and maintain margins. Installing RAM, SSD, HDs on the production line requires a human and also takes time. A robot, however, can solder these items in in seconds. Plus the install error rate decreases too.

Soldering also serves another goal: smaller, lighter products. That gives the consumer sleeker looking gadgets and reduces packaging and shipping costs.

 

[DotCom2]

I think Apple is shooting itself in the foot a bit here. I can see maybe, *MAYBE* soldering the ram on this lower end model but if they continue down this path on other models it will be what PC user always knock against Apple.

I can just see a Dell commercial now..."We are cheaper and upgradable and we don't solder our RAM!"

 

[Carouser]

Bingo. This is what's going on Sally Soccermom's kitchen counter/desk to type up the next PTA meeting brochure and post her swim-meet iphone photos on Facebook. Or it's going to Grandma's so she can Facetime with Little Lilly.

That system is utterly NOT aimed at the typical MacRumors denizen. LEst we forget, Propellerheads are not Apple's core target market.

All this because the RAM is soldered? So if you could replace the RAM (which is a Super Serious Expert Geek-Level Computer Tinkerer operation) it would be a serious computin' rig?

If that's the conclusion (and most of the posts here suggest it is), my advice is to get over yourselves.

 

[wiz329]

That's a false assumption. There are lots of us who would like to be able to upgrade our Apple computers. Specially considering the kinda absurd premium prices Apple asks for if we want to upgrade them prior the purchase.

Edit: And what advantages did this move bring to the consumer, to deserve your 100% support?

Yeah, but I doubt we ("lots of use") will be buying this particular model.

And remember, you're not only paying for hardware, you're paying for software and ecosystem.

Advantages: easier to build, smaller, and cheaper.

 

[Inhalant]

This is a huge letdown. I'm a fan of Apple products, old and new, but there is absolutely no reason to do this in a desktop computer. I can understand soldering the memory in a RMBP, as someone else also stated, but not an iMac. Sales of iMacs will drop in the future after a small action such as this. Bad Apple.

 

[deeddawg]

All this because the RAM is soldered?

No; general statement about the target for the low-end iMac and that upgradeability really isn't something the likely buyer of the new iMac cares about.

my advice is to get over yourselves.

Also my point. Why people are getting their Batman panties in a wad over this is a mystery. MBAs have been flying off the shelves with non-upgradeable memory and barely upgradeable SSDs for years. If this practice continues to expand to some other lines, there will be a few more pissed off geeks building more Hackintoshes while the rest of the world carries on as normal. If it does cause a real effect on sales then I'd imagine Apple will backtrack; my bet though is they'll just laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[jmpage2]

Only an ignoramus would think that this new iMac is a "deal". Far better to get a refurbished mac with a real processor and unsoldered RAM for just a little bit more.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

All this because the RAM is soldered? So if you could replace the RAM (which is a Super Serious Expert Geek-Level Computer Tinkerer operation) it would be a serious computin' rig?

If that's the conclusion (and most of the posts here suggest it is), my advice is to get over yourselves.

The bigger point here is that bit-by-bit, model-by-model, Apple is doing this to everything. Solder everything. Cement everything shut. Make everything impossible to upgrade and then charge the customer ridiculous markups to add more memory or bigger SSD's. Obviously, Apple wants to be the first company with a Quadrillion dollars cash, but still, in the end, many consumers want an expandable system that they can upgrade when they want to. Historically, computers have been upgradable, and you could start out at the lower-end and as time goes on (and you have more cash in your pocket) you can add more memory and bigger drives, etc. The notion that Apple wants you to commit to a configuration that you keep forever (which is typically higher end because people are afraid of getting stuck with a low end config in a few years and are scared into future-proofing their purchase) just puts more money in Apples pocket. Which is the point, right?

In any case, this particular model is crap anyways. A 1.4Ghz dual core i5? Really? It's a low-power U-series chip. I wonder how long anyone will be happy with this configuration?