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[Merged] Reception / Antenna / Signal Bars theories
- Thread starter keyofnight
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I talked this over with my Dad (we're both getting the iPhone 4 once he returns from his international business trip) who has a Ph.D. in physics and he confirmed the antenna design not presenting problems in high reception areas but rather low reception areas. He also told me that a simple fix is to release a software patch that can compensate for the change in impedance of the antenna. Another catch is that you need to have sweaty skin. The salt in your sweat will conduct much better than dry skin.
your dad knows pretty much everything, doesn't he? 
anyways, i have to disagree with "Sales will tell"
i would assume that 80% of the iPhone 4's potential buyership even KNOW about the current issues before their purchase.
(and i'll even assume that 95% of these 80% won't even notice the issue during regular use)
anyways, i have to disagree with "Sales will tell"
i would assume that 80% of the iPhone 4's potential buyership even KNOW about the current issues before their purchase.
(and i'll even assume that 95% of these 80% won't even notice the issue during regular use)
Btw, this thread is NOT a theory. It's simple verifiable fact. The threads about a design flaw is a theory at best.
Concur...
Again, the bottom line to most will be:
Am I dropping calls and data connection?"
If people aren't dropping calls, they won't care that the useless signal bars seem to vary up or down...
Now, if you are dropping calls and getting 'No'Service' indicators, THEN, there is a problem...
BTW, thanks Mods for FINALLY merging some of these repetitive threads...LOL
your dad knows pretty much everything, doesn't he?
anyways, i have to disagree with "Sales will tell"
i would assume that 80% of the iPhone 4's potential buyership even KNOW about the current issues before their purchase.
(and i'll even assume that 95% of these 80% won't even notice the issue during regular use)
If an issue is not noticeable during normal use by a majority of the users, then it's most likely ultimately not critical. If the phone is keeping people from making calls, most people will notice, will complain, and will return the phone.
Apple just needs to come clean and tell me the problem isn't me. The iPhone 4 simple doesn't perform as well as the previous iPhones. That's a simple statement that can't be hedged with discussion of grip or cases.
Once that's established then we'll all agree there is no problem with the phone and I'll stop seeking an warranty solution. I'll just live with it and hope for something better next year. Until then, Apple's statements suggest there is something wrong with the phone and I'll keep pressing for them to fix it.
Once that's established then we'll all agree there is no problem with the phone and I'll stop seeking an warranty solution. I'll just live with it and hope for something better next year. Until then, Apple's statements suggest there is something wrong with the phone and I'll keep pressing for them to fix it.
Yes, lack of internal space is no doubt a primary reason for using the bezel.
What's interesting to me is that Apple's pictures given to the FCC still show the 3G antenna as being at the bottom.
Furthermore, their SAR plots show all the 3G transmission as being at the bottom.
Double furthermore, the bezel lengths don't seem to add up to any even multiple of the bands involved.
So I'm a bit puzzled as to the actual purpose of the bezel as a part of an antenna system. (I'm not an RF engineer.) Some kind of a slot antenna variation? Part of an IFA type? Any experts around?
Attachments
Open your eyes! Apple is pacifying the public to avoid the real matter at hand. iPhone 4 was a case of the engineers losing to the industrial designers.
A letter I wrote to Apple.
I think they are really into it when the adjusted formula comes out. Suddenly everyone will have 3 bars and the death grip will elicit one bars or no service in low signal areas.
A letter I wrote to Apple.
I think they are really into it when the adjusted formula comes out. Suddenly everyone will have 3 bars and the death grip will elicit one bars or no service in low signal areas.
I am not educated well enough in cellular communication to produce actual numbers, but I believe that the bars we see are inaccurately rendered.
I first noticed this with the 2.1 release on iPhone 3G. After this update my iPhone scarcely ever showed 2-4 bars.
I can't tell you how many times my 3G/3GS showed 5 bars but the number was -97, poor signal. My data tests confirmed with 230 download and 12 upload.
Apple is tampering with what the user sees and embellishing the results and they plan to go further with 4.0.1 tomorrow.
I first noticed this with the 2.1 release on iPhone 3G. After this update my iPhone scarcely ever showed 2-4 bars.
I can't tell you how many times my 3G/3GS showed 5 bars but the number was -97, poor signal. My data tests confirmed with 230 download and 12 upload.
Apple is tampering with what the user sees and embellishing the results and they plan to go further with 4.0.1 tomorrow.
The expression "death grip" has the connotation that the user is grasping the phone tightly. This puts some of the responsibility on the user. Of all the cell phone users I know, not one uses a "death grip". I'm sure the term appeals to the journalists, since it's a bit sensational, and it appeals to Apple since it makes the user seem responsible. Other than writing it here, I avoid using the expression in my posts as it's simply too inappropriate.*
I don't know the origin of this expression, but it began early on. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't implemented by a journalist that's in bed with Apple. Since it been referenced *over and over it's taken on a life of it's own. I can easily envision Apple promoting it's use, and the fanboys being responsible for it's heavy use in this forum. After all, Apple and it's followers are the masters at finger pointing. It's been elevated to an art form by Steve Jobs.*
I don't know the origin of this expression, but it began early on. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't implemented by a journalist that's in bed with Apple. Since it been referenced *over and over it's taken on a life of it's own. I can easily envision Apple promoting it's use, and the fanboys being responsible for it's heavy use in this forum. After all, Apple and it's followers are the masters at finger pointing. It's been elevated to an art form by Steve Jobs.*
Journalists have become confused over the usage. I can apply a single finger tip to the gap to dramatically lower my data rates.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/954831/
Everything you ever wanted to know about the Bumper, the antenna design and why Apple chose it specifically (towards the end of the current thread length), and a lot of other stuff about microwave energy wave propagation you'll probably never give a damn about.
Everything you ever wanted to know about the Bumper, the antenna design and why Apple chose it specifically (towards the end of the current thread length), and a lot of other stuff about microwave energy wave propagation you'll probably never give a damn about.
This is my observation. It has to do with weak signal. At home i have a weak signal, i can consistently produce the bar going from 5 bars to "searching" mode, and a few call drops while holding/touching near the bottom of the phone.
I was yesterday at a restaurant, i couldn't believe my eyes. The same phone dropped just one bar and stayed consistently at 4 bars, even on a death grip. I made a few phone calls, good reception. No clue what is causing this. can we blame at&t for this too?
I was yesterday at a restaurant, i couldn't believe my eyes. The same phone dropped just one bar and stayed consistently at 4 bars, even on a death grip. I made a few phone calls, good reception. No clue what is causing this. can we blame at&t for this too?
So Far Inconclusive
I really do appreciate all the speculation. And I respect all the concern. We're curious because we want to understand -- we're worried because we WANT to like our phones. Anyway, I'm not trying to add a new theory. Rather, I guess my experiment only reinforces statements like, "RF is a strange beast."
More importantly, I seem to remember a statement from Apple saying that the new antenna system would prefer clearer signals to stronger ones. Do I know what that means exactly? Not really. Do I know anything about the technology behind cell antennas or the software displaying their readings? Nope. Am I as curious and confused as you? Probably. Am I capable of downloading an app, running tests, and doing some simple math? You bet I am.
It seems to be widely accepted that the death grip is impairing your antenna's reception strength by at least 20 decibels. I would like to have a decibel number to correspond to each one of these pics, but this is the best I can do. Still, I feel like it indicates that at least some people's reactions are exaggerated. That is, just because your bars are 80% diminished, the clarity of your signal might be completely intact. And I feel like we've all experienced dropped calls with full bars at some point.
Test One
Naked iP4 on desk:
Reaction: That's what I'm payin' for, baby!
Test Two
Death grip it. Hard:
Reaction: So that's why everybody's pi$$ed.
Test Three
Death grip, part deux:
Reaction: Come on, help me help you.
Test Four
My hand is starting to hurt.
Reaction: We have no idea what is going on here.
Averages
I averaged ten tests of each, stationary, about 30-60 seconds apart.
On table - 2007 kb/s download, 101 kb/s upload
Gripped to death - 1274 kb/s download, 46 kb/s upload
Conclusion
I am not going to say that I buy 100% of Apple's statement regarding this issue. Could a 37% signal drop be customary when other phones' antennas are thoroughly impeded? It doesn't seem far-fetched. I might believe that. So... Apple says you're getting two "bonus bars" because of their software issue. You live in an area with spotty coverage -- you have 50% signal -- and your bars are showing 4 out of 5. You mistakenly assume that's 80-90%, then you grip that bad boy and lose about 37%. Then all but one of your bars disappear because your phone is now at 13%, and thoroughly confused about how to tell you. The pictures I chose to upload are just to indicate how strange and random this seems to be. The low averages of the high bars were still between 1500 kb/s and 2000 kb/s, with maybe one or two outliers. The death grip clearly affects the speeds, but it also looks like there is something significantly askew with simply the software governing bars.
Please don't lash out at my response like I am making any impassioned argument, like I designed the phone, or like I care how well yours is working by comparison. (No offense) I love my iPhone 4, and have had no reception issues I wasn't accustomed to with my 3G. GPS works way better in my area, too. All I wanted to demonstrate is that there doesn't seem to be any absolutely conclusive, hard evidence yet that this thing is inherently "defective".
I really do appreciate all the speculation. And I respect all the concern. We're curious because we want to understand -- we're worried because we WANT to like our phones. Anyway, I'm not trying to add a new theory. Rather, I guess my experiment only reinforces statements like, "RF is a strange beast."
More importantly, I seem to remember a statement from Apple saying that the new antenna system would prefer clearer signals to stronger ones. Do I know what that means exactly? Not really. Do I know anything about the technology behind cell antennas or the software displaying their readings? Nope. Am I as curious and confused as you? Probably. Am I capable of downloading an app, running tests, and doing some simple math? You bet I am.
It seems to be widely accepted that the death grip is impairing your antenna's reception strength by at least 20 decibels. I would like to have a decibel number to correspond to each one of these pics, but this is the best I can do. Still, I feel like it indicates that at least some people's reactions are exaggerated. That is, just because your bars are 80% diminished, the clarity of your signal might be completely intact. And I feel like we've all experienced dropped calls with full bars at some point.
Test One
Naked iP4 on desk:
Reaction: That's what I'm payin' for, baby!
Test Two
Death grip it. Hard:
Reaction: So that's why everybody's pi$$ed.
Test Three
Death grip, part deux:
Reaction: Come on, help me help you.
Test Four
My hand is starting to hurt.
Reaction: We have no idea what is going on here.
Averages
I averaged ten tests of each, stationary, about 30-60 seconds apart.
On table - 2007 kb/s download, 101 kb/s upload
Gripped to death - 1274 kb/s download, 46 kb/s upload
Conclusion
I am not going to say that I buy 100% of Apple's statement regarding this issue. Could a 37% signal drop be customary when other phones' antennas are thoroughly impeded? It doesn't seem far-fetched. I might believe that. So... Apple says you're getting two "bonus bars" because of their software issue. You live in an area with spotty coverage -- you have 50% signal -- and your bars are showing 4 out of 5. You mistakenly assume that's 80-90%, then you grip that bad boy and lose about 37%. Then all but one of your bars disappear because your phone is now at 13%, and thoroughly confused about how to tell you. The pictures I chose to upload are just to indicate how strange and random this seems to be. The low averages of the high bars were still between 1500 kb/s and 2000 kb/s, with maybe one or two outliers. The death grip clearly affects the speeds, but it also looks like there is something significantly askew with simply the software governing bars.
Please don't lash out at my response like I am making any impassioned argument, like I designed the phone, or like I care how well yours is working by comparison. (No offense) I love my iPhone 4, and have had no reception issues I wasn't accustomed to with my 3G. GPS works way better in my area, too. All I wanted to demonstrate is that there doesn't seem to be any absolutely conclusive, hard evidence yet that this thing is inherently "defective".