Yes they are.
They're thinking about gadgets.
Everyone interested in a computer expects an hdmi port. Steve doesn't like hdmi. So he's shifted his focus to gadgets.
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[Merged] Sony VAIO Z Series Notebooks
- Thread starter fr4c
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Yes they are.
They're thinking about gadgets.
Everyone interested in a computer expects an hdmi port. Steve doesn't like hdmi. So he's shifted his focus to gadgets.
--
And all these years later the 17 inch still weighs that much.
Whatever happened to nano technology?
Oh yeah, the Nano. A gadget.
Nano gadgets.
A 17 inch MBP should weigh no more than three pounds by now.
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Show us another 17" laptop in the PC world complete with optical drive that's less than 6.5LBS.
Weight: Start at 2.65kg
http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en§ion=1&group=1&product=10352&category=
That's pretty light... but nasty specs! It shows that light doesn't always mean good eh. There's probably an even lighter 17" out there but quite frankly, I couldn't be bothered to look.
That's pretty light... but nasty specs! It shows that light doesn't always mean good eh. There's probably an even lighter 17" out there but quite frankly, I couldn't be bothered to look.
Basically the MBP is the lightest desktop replacement
Yes and no. It all depends on each user's requirements. Desktops can give you more expandability, customisation, etc.
The problem is Apple is wasting a lot of space with a pointless optical drive and an unnecessarily big and HEAVY battery. People don't need a 10-hour battery, and it's probably adding 3/4 of a lb over the battery it should have.
I would bet 95% of Mac users don't need more than four hours of battery. Sure, it's more convenient a small percentage of the time. But it's just not necessary. Whether it's a 13" MBP or a 17" MBP, Apple needs to go thinner and lighter weight. Remove the worthless and oversized components, and success will be achieved.
How about a media bay that allows people to add a worthless SuperDrive, or a second battery achieving 10 hours away from charge. That could allow a range that's necessary for each user.
I feel that Apple has gone the wrong direction by not thinning and lightening the weight of these Macs. The MBA is so successful to those of us who use it because it does eliminate the pointless parts of other notebook Macs.
My jab was not specifically at Apple, but the entire laptop industry.
The Sony Z is only 3 lbs and it has a DVD burner with Blue-Ray playback. Why does this laptop stand out so far from everything else? It's dimensions and weight should be a ubiquitous standard by now.
Apple is not charging us Chinese prices, but they are selling Foxconn Chinese manufactured products.
Apple and their fans talk about the aluminum unibody being sturdy. Well, by now I'm sure it's possible to nano manufacture a laptop body of the same dimensions that weighs 75% less. Foxconn may not be able to, but it can still be done.
As it is it seems the Intel processor is the only nano manufactured item in the laptop.
And Audi was manufacturing aluminum bodied automobiles around 20 years ago. Aluminum is a very cheap metal.
Apple laptops are very expensive.
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Before you give the Sony Z so much credit for being so revolutionary in what it offers in terms of specs and weight, you might want to check around the web, especially Notebook Review.com and there are multiple complaints about the build quality which is the same complaints as the previous models.
Even though they have incorporated the "Unibody" design like Apple, the rest of the machine is of cheap plastic and very flimsy. Yes, I've played with one because I evaluate different computers just to stay in the know and the new Z12 as well as it's predecessor the Z11 have flimsy screen housing which attributes to the lighter weight and the whole machine does not feel strong and sturdy. Poor build quality of the screen as it easily gets scratched from the palm rest area and this has been an ongoing issue from multiple generations of the Z and Sony won't fix it.
This from a company that invented the chicklet keyboard and has the same recessed keyboard as the Apple but why does the Z's screen get scratched and the Macbook's screen doesn't. I've read multiple reports of the plastic coming off screen's bezel and very poor viewing angles as I mentioned earlier.
My whole point is while the Sony gives great specs in a lightweight package, they are notorious for cutting corners where it counts but they lead the customer into a blind fairyland of what looks to be a high end computer but it's really not. One of the biggest "Gotcha's" from the Z is the proprietary SSD, the consumer cannot install their own, nor can they buy a cheaper Z with a standard HDD so they can upgrade later. Those funny marketing words like "Carbon Fiber" which is really a plastic lid with fibers of carbon incorporated. It's nothing but marketing crap so the customer thinks they are getting something of higher end quality but it's very plasticy and flimsy. At least with Apple they are upfront on what they offer to the customer, there's no guesswork on what corners were cut, they will give medium to high specs but nothing groundbreaking but the rest of the computer has exclusive features and many other features not found on many computers and the build quality is superb.
So yes, while the Sony Vaio Z owner will have bragging rights due to specs and weight, after the honeymoon is over the consumer has to deal with all the "Gotcha's" and the usual corners cut, but they are still paying a premium price for a standard, common Windows PC. Gimme a break, after spending $2000 on a Z, (which is the base price at that) Sony won't give actual restore discs, but they make you burn your own?? I expect that of their cheaper models but not the Z.
Apple doesn't get it right all the time either. I had the Macbook Air Rev B and while it's an awesome machine, Apple didn't do a good job on it either. Now, while the overall built quality is amazing and very strong for an ultra portable the screen hinge has multiple problems and for some reason Apple can't get the cooling system right in the Air which leads to a poor experience with HD Flash videos (yes I know Adobe sucks too) and some very light gaming.
That being said, I got rid of my Air and replaced it with a 13" MBP, which has now been replaced with my new 15" Core i5 MBP. I would rather deal with a little more weight in order to have good specs and better overall build quality. The majority of the PC industry has notebooks that are much heavier than Apple's and with so many choices in the PC industry if you can only find one or two machines like the Toshiba then that's pretty poor and non-innovative.
HLdan
Very good post, very well said. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
You basically wrote what I experienced in my last two Z's. Particularly the screen and build quality, track pad ...
I even went to the lengths of pleading with Sony to allow me to exchange the Z ... I thought, hoped, tried to believe the second one was better with regards to the screen etc but it wasn't....
I just wasted more time trying to convince myself that I could make it work, "it had to just be me, it can't be that bad" but it is.
It's one of the electrics purchases I regret most, I did it in 2009 and was disappointed, I (foolishly) tried it again this year considering all the hype around it only to be more disappointed. Costly mistake(s).
Considering a Sony? Read what HLdan wrote above first, it's bang on with my experience as well.
Very good post, very well said. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
You basically wrote what I experienced in my last two Z's. Particularly the screen and build quality, track pad ...
I even went to the lengths of pleading with Sony to allow me to exchange the Z ... I thought, hoped, tried to believe the second one was better with regards to the screen etc but it wasn't....
I just wasted more time trying to convince myself that I could make it work, "it had to just be me, it can't be that bad" but it is.
It's one of the electrics purchases I regret most, I did it in 2009 and was disappointed, I (foolishly) tried it again this year considering all the hype around it only to be more disappointed. Costly mistake(s).
Considering a Sony? Read what HLdan wrote above first, it's bang on with my experience as well.
Yes, today I discovered a new Toshiba that matches the Sony Z for weight in a 13" screen for $800 at Best Buy.
Unfortunately they left off the cheap yet scarce backlit keyboard, which will always be a deal breaker for me.
So perhaps 3lb 13" laptops are about to become the norm for PCs. I certainly hope so. And even more so I hope this problem of a backlit keyboard not being ubiquitous soon comes to an end.
Touch tone phones 30 years ago all had backlit keyboards. Which has more keys, a laptop or a phone? Why would anyone not want a backlit keyboard? You can always turn it off.
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To be honest the Toshiba is not competing with the Sony Z - rather it is competing with the Acers and Asus that all have that bottom of the barrel quality 1366 x768 pixel screen. If anyone is happy with that screen then they never needed a Sony Z or Macbook pro anyway.
As for the 3lb units, as long as 4/5 years ago i had a relatively cheap and powerful (for its time at least) Fujitsu S series that was 13" and weighed 3.75lbs. How Apple manages to come in at 4.5 lbs on the Macbook pro and even more on the macbook, is beyond me.
That's why the Sony Z commands its price. The idea of a lightweight, high res 13" lapto seems to me a no brainer. But if no one goes for it then of course Sony can charge what it wants, much as Apple can charge what it wants because the PC industry is basically unwilling or unable to compete for the obvious need that Apple focuses on fulfilling.
Note: I only read the first post.
First of all, thank you for the lovely review and comparison. I too am looking at this duet of notebooks and it has made really confident that Apple notebooks are unmatchable in design, aesthetics, and build quality. The Z is a fantastic machine with an incredible performance/portability ratio but now that I've used and owned an Apple notebook myself going back to that world be hard.
Anyway, my only question is: How is gaming with that machine under Mac OS X? I have a MacBook Pro 13' and I find it largely insufficient for my needs. All of my favorite games are available for OS X, and I'd refuse to use Windows. I'd be running StarCraft II, World of Warcraft, Civilization V, The Sims 3, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, and a few others.
EDIT: I'd probably get the high resolution antiglare screen.
Again, great work and this opened my eyes a bit.
I love .
Sincerely,
Andrew
First of all, thank you for the lovely review and comparison. I too am looking at this duet of notebooks and it has made really confident that Apple notebooks are unmatchable in design, aesthetics, and build quality. The Z is a fantastic machine with an incredible performance/portability ratio but now that I've used and owned an Apple notebook myself going back to that world be hard.
Anyway, my only question is: How is gaming with that machine under Mac OS X? I have a MacBook Pro 13' and I find it largely insufficient for my needs. All of my favorite games are available for OS X, and I'd refuse to use Windows. I'd be running StarCraft II, World of Warcraft, Civilization V, The Sims 3, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, and a few others.
EDIT: I'd probably get the high resolution antiglare screen.
Again, great work and this opened my eyes a bit.
I love .
Sincerely,
Andrew
My experience with the Z Series
Hi all. I came across this forum whilst looking for other stuff - as you do. I am a freelance software developer and was given a Z Series by the company I was doing a contract for. It was not the current model but the previous model with core duo but regardless I was extremely impressed with it. I was doing a contract last year using the Z series and also a HP laptop but even with both just didn't have enough power for what I was doing. I bit the bullet and purchased the top of the range Z with the full HD screen, Blu-ray burner, 8gb Ram and quad SSD.
Let me start by covering some of what has been said. Firstly regarding the flimsy screen. I can tell you that although it feels flimsy it just isn't. I fly all over the place all the time and I have never been careful with the thing but NEVER have I had any problem. Yes there is a little flex when opening but truthfully it's not as flimsy as it first appears but this would only become apparent after using one for some time. Secondly the screen brightness is, in my opinion, second to none. Last year I was Irving in Cambodia and on a daily basis used the thing outdoors to work and never had any issues with it. As someone else stated, to gain full brightness the ambient light sensor needs to be disabled and being Sony to do this is not intuitive. Thirdly, in your review you state that you didn't see much difference when opening applications like chat, IM, etc. Well you wouldn't see much if ANY difference that's not what the quad SSD's are all about. I develop mostly in virtual machines both windows and OSx (we'll come to that later) and some of the VMs are over 20gb - now that's where this thing shines. Compare the time that it takes to copy a clean VM of 20gb and boom - that's when the difference will be most apparent. What I would say is that most people just never need this sort of speed so to spend this type of cash is just not feasable. For me I charge by the hour and so if I need a clean working environment which I do regularly I can save 30-45 mins and that's £30-40. Fourthly, I can't see a need to be able to change the brightness on the backlight keyboard but everyone has a different way of working - that's just my opinion.
Coming back to the whole OSx Windows debate I have looked long and hard at purchasing a MBP but given the extra weight and what it will give me I have always decided against it. But, I do run OSx on my Z Series in a VM and will be working to try and get it to run naively. At the end of my post are the xBench results for everybody to see and this is running on only 2 cores and is usable. I have used OSx for iPhone dev with Xcode and lightroom etc for photography and all completely usable. Whilst back in the London office this year we compared the Z series against a MBP with SSD. Of course the graphics were not comparable but everything else was better on the Z series to the point where the Mac techies were in disbelief.
I did like your review and do appreciate that a true opinion of a machine can only be had after using it for some time. For me I can't find much wrong with the Z series....um...no USB3 or eSata and that's about it I think. To my last point - battery life - well what can I say full development environment running switched to stamina mode and I still get around 8-9 hours from the extended batteries. I purchased 2 extended batteries because in Asia where I'm based we do sometimes have 2 or 3 day power cuts but with this and a battery powered Zoom travel router connected to my iPhone with a Powergorilla to charge router & iPhone I truly have 3-4 days of power which is incredible.
Sorry if my post is a bit long
Results 207.84
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System Version 10.6.4 (10F569)
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CPU Test 164.98
GCD Loop 292.07 15.40 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 109.44 2.60 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 111.90 3.69 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 364.00 63.38 Mops/sec
Thread Test 378.54
Computation 411.11 8.33 Mops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 350.76 15.09 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
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System 176.84
Allocate 115.14 422.83 Kalloc/sec
Fill 181.32 8815.98 MB/sec
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Hi all. I came across this forum whilst looking for other stuff - as you do. I am a freelance software developer and was given a Z Series by the company I was doing a contract for. It was not the current model but the previous model with core duo but regardless I was extremely impressed with it. I was doing a contract last year using the Z series and also a HP laptop but even with both just didn't have enough power for what I was doing. I bit the bullet and purchased the top of the range Z with the full HD screen, Blu-ray burner, 8gb Ram and quad SSD.
Let me start by covering some of what has been said. Firstly regarding the flimsy screen. I can tell you that although it feels flimsy it just isn't. I fly all over the place all the time and I have never been careful with the thing but NEVER have I had any problem. Yes there is a little flex when opening but truthfully it's not as flimsy as it first appears but this would only become apparent after using one for some time. Secondly the screen brightness is, in my opinion, second to none. Last year I was Irving in Cambodia and on a daily basis used the thing outdoors to work and never had any issues with it. As someone else stated, to gain full brightness the ambient light sensor needs to be disabled and being Sony to do this is not intuitive. Thirdly, in your review you state that you didn't see much difference when opening applications like chat, IM, etc. Well you wouldn't see much if ANY difference that's not what the quad SSD's are all about. I develop mostly in virtual machines both windows and OSx (we'll come to that later) and some of the VMs are over 20gb - now that's where this thing shines. Compare the time that it takes to copy a clean VM of 20gb and boom - that's when the difference will be most apparent. What I would say is that most people just never need this sort of speed so to spend this type of cash is just not feasable. For me I charge by the hour and so if I need a clean working environment which I do regularly I can save 30-45 mins and that's £30-40. Fourthly, I can't see a need to be able to change the brightness on the backlight keyboard but everyone has a different way of working - that's just my opinion.
Coming back to the whole OSx Windows debate I have looked long and hard at purchasing a MBP but given the extra weight and what it will give me I have always decided against it. But, I do run OSx on my Z Series in a VM and will be working to try and get it to run naively. At the end of my post are the xBench results for everybody to see and this is running on only 2 cores and is usable. I have used OSx for iPhone dev with Xcode and lightroom etc for photography and all completely usable. Whilst back in the London office this year we compared the Z series against a MBP with SSD. Of course the graphics were not comparable but everything else was better on the Z series to the point where the Mac techies were in disbelief.
I did like your review and do appreciate that a true opinion of a machine can only be had after using it for some time. For me I can't find much wrong with the Z series....um...no USB3 or eSata and that's about it I think. To my last point - battery life - well what can I say full development environment running switched to stamina mode and I still get around 8-9 hours from the extended batteries. I purchased 2 extended batteries because in Asia where I'm based we do sometimes have 2 or 3 day power cuts but with this and a battery powered Zoom travel router connected to my iPhone with a Powergorilla to charge router & iPhone I truly have 3-4 days of power which is incredible.
Sorry if my post is a bit long
Results 207.84
System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.6.4 (10F569)
Physical RAM 2048 MB
Model iMac9,1
Drive Type VMware Virtual IDE Hard Drive VMware Virtual IDE Hard Drive
CPU Test 164.98
GCD Loop 292.07 15.40 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 109.44 2.60 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 111.90 3.69 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 364.00 63.38 Mops/sec
Thread Test 378.54
Computation 411.11 8.33 Mops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 350.76 15.09 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 239.93
System 176.84
Allocate 115.14 422.83 Kalloc/sec
Fill 181.32 8815.98 MB/sec
Copy 361.78 7472.50 MB/sec
Stream 373.02
Copy 273.06 5639.87 MB/sec
Scale inf inf MB/sec
Add 295.09 6286.15 MB/sec
Triad 272.30 5825.25 MB/sec
Disk Test 156.87
Sequential 122.89
Uncached Write 106.17 65.19 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 203.00 114.86 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 66.86 19.57 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 307.89 154.75 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 216.80
Uncached Write 97.80 10.35 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 377.22 120.76 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 649.58 4.60 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 247.85 45.99 MB/sec [256K blocks]
No contest
The Sony is in a different league. Faster, more reliable, better value, more software, more options, and all round better machine. If you in anyway shape or form think the Apple is better, you are really are grasping to hold onto something that just plain isn't there.
The Sony is in a different league. Faster, more reliable, better value, more software, more options, and all round better machine. If you in anyway shape or form think the Apple is better, you are really are grasping to hold onto something that just plain isn't there.
There isn't anything out there whether it be....Computers, Cell phones, portable music players, or software that Apple has that isn't done better by another company and in most cases better product for less of a cost. Apple has a following for their great marketing and advertising (some say brainwashing) not for their technology (usually made cheaply in china/taiwan) or their value. I'd take Sony products (including Sony Vegas) over apple any day. The only argument that is to be made is the operation system and that like religion is based on personal opinion not on what is right or wrong.
Jerv2020 -- The fact that you joined MAC Rumors only this month and have posted but twice might lead one to suspect that you have never owned a Macbook of any kind and are merely trolling here. Not accusing you, just wondering what your motivation was for posting as you did. In order that we may better understand where you are coming from, could you tell us what Apple products you have owned?
My first laptop (had desktops before) was a Vaio Z1, back in 2003. It was an awesome piece, but also quite expensive.
14.1'' 1400x1050 resolution
2kg (4.something lbs), still got 4hr battery life
great design
magnesium compound body, extremely solid
It's still running, never had any technical problem. Of course the built in graphics card wasn't very powerful.
I think it was a great piece of engineering. Unfortunately, most vaio laptops that I have seen since then are just the usual plastic crap. But I guess this new Z series is quite nice. Of course at the end of the day I would only ever consider buying a vaio again if apple allows OSX to be installed on non apple computers. Running Linux on that Z1 was a pain, without appropriate drivers for the built in Wifi.
14.1'' 1400x1050 resolution
2kg (4.something lbs), still got 4hr battery life
great design
magnesium compound body, extremely solid
It's still running, never had any technical problem. Of course the built in graphics card wasn't very powerful.
I think it was a great piece of engineering. Unfortunately, most vaio laptops that I have seen since then are just the usual plastic crap. But I guess this new Z series is quite nice. Of course at the end of the day I would only ever consider buying a vaio again if apple allows OSX to be installed on non apple computers. Running Linux on that Z1 was a pain, without appropriate drivers for the built in Wifi.
I broke the LCD screen on my Sony Z12 and am now looking at whether to fix screen on that laptop or replace it with either Sony Z12 or MBA 13".
What's interesting is that one of the issues isnt so much the hardware but the software. On the hardware the Z has better specs but the MBA is still well speced and up to par for this type of use- he CPU is only area where its a bit of the question mark.
However on the software front one the most annoying things for me so far on my Mac Mini as HTPC at home and the MBP 13" I have at work is the size of the sytem fonts. You cant really make the system fonts smaller and they look clunky and take up more space.
What's interesting is that one of the issues isnt so much the hardware but the software. On the hardware the Z has better specs but the MBA is still well speced and up to par for this type of use- he CPU is only area where its a bit of the question mark.
However on the software front one the most annoying things for me so far on my Mac Mini as HTPC at home and the MBP 13" I have at work is the size of the sytem fonts. You cant really make the system fonts smaller and they look clunky and take up more space.
The Z1 is much better than the Z2. Sonys PMD does not allow you to game because of poor drivers and suspect design. I have owned both, and while my Z2 booted faster than any other machine I have used, (MBA Included) a used or refurb Z1 with a modded bios is better performer overall.
BTW...I was the first on NBR to post about the SD card slot issue.
Heres where Apple wins... SERVICE. Sonys design is not bad, its just not as durable as Apples. Repair turn around with Sony is 2-3+ weeks! Apple has you ready in 72 hours normally. This is why its SO hard for anyone caring about warranty issues to go back to PC.
Apple loses in the 13" department because of their stubborn efforts to force anyone wanting a GPU to rock a 15" laptop. That is a frustrating and huge fail. How mau kids is their dorms would to not only enjoy their Macs but blow off steam on weekends playing some games. I can also vouch for us traveling professionals wanting this.
They are losing massive sales and appeal in the hottest laptop size. Whats up whit that Johnny?
BTW...I was the first on NBR to post about the SD card slot issue.
Heres where Apple wins... SERVICE. Sonys design is not bad, its just not as durable as Apples. Repair turn around with Sony is 2-3+ weeks! Apple has you ready in 72 hours normally. This is why its SO hard for anyone caring about warranty issues to go back to PC.
Apple loses in the 13" department because of their stubborn efforts to force anyone wanting a GPU to rock a 15" laptop. That is a frustrating and huge fail. How mau kids is their dorms would to not only enjoy their Macs but blow off steam on weekends playing some games. I can also vouch for us traveling professionals wanting this.
They are losing massive sales and appeal in the hottest laptop size. Whats up whit that Johnny?