That's true, but what about the thickness of the device? The Vaio Z is much thicker than even the MBP. It might not even be possible to realize the VAIO Z's hardware specs in a device that is as thin as a MBA?
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[Merged] Sony VAIO Z Series Notebooks
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That's true, but what about the thickness of the device? The Vaio Z is much thicker than even the MBP. It might not even be possible to realize the VAIO Z's hardware specs in a device that is as thin as a MBA?
The Sony Vaio Z is far more expensive than the (relatively) modestly priced 13 inch MBP but the 13 inch MBP has much to be modest about.Sony has to be ecstatic that Apple doesn't have a head on competitor to the Z.
The 13" MBP add's 1.5 lbs in weight, and lacks hdmi port, one less usb port, no i5/i7, no discrete graphics with auto or manual switching...
The MBA well it's just dated.
iPad fever, now iPhone flu, iDon't like this
More seriously, the 13 inch MBP is an outstanding computer but is far heavier and far less powerful than the Vaio Z. Still, the MBA can run both Windows and OS X right out of the box without being hacked. Thus, for me at least, the Vaio Z would not be in the conversation, even it it weren't far more expensive than the MBP. iToo am becoming tired of Apple's obsessive concentration on its iOS devices, which I think is why they are ignoring the MBA.
True, bottom line is you, I and many MANY others feel the same way, we're (im)patiently waiting ...
Hell, S. Jobs and all the Exec's at Apple would love and use the MacBook Air we're dreaming of ...
Can Apple do it? YES! And I think within a 3.5 lb aluminum body and long lasting battery too, they could spec it to the Sony with i5/i7, hdmi, 3 usb ports etc etc 'if' they wanted to. 32 billion dollars and more Engineers than most western company's employ, and 1,000's more Engineers envying and wanting to work for Apple in the slower US economy ...
It's not a matter of can or can't, it's a matter iProfits ... Like Jobs said many times yesterday "we love our Customers" ... sure but they're ruled by and work for the shareholders and winning the game is measured by $$$ not by making the thinnest, lightest, fastest ultra-portable. We could be in for a long indefinite wait.
Is that all bad? Looking further down the road maybe not. The iPad may or will I'd guess evolve into the only computing device we'll need. It wil have all the power, hook up wirelessly to ACD's, TV's, Keyboards etc.
But until then I'd like a full featured ultra-portable to use, I've given up hope Apple is going to fill that void anytime soon.
Hell, S. Jobs and all the Exec's at Apple would love and use the MacBook Air we're dreaming of ...
Can Apple do it? YES! And I think within a 3.5 lb aluminum body and long lasting battery too, they could spec it to the Sony with i5/i7, hdmi, 3 usb ports etc etc 'if' they wanted to. 32 billion dollars and more Engineers than most western company's employ, and 1,000's more Engineers envying and wanting to work for Apple in the slower US economy ...
It's not a matter of can or can't, it's a matter iProfits ... Like Jobs said many times yesterday "we love our Customers" ... sure but they're ruled by and work for the shareholders and winning the game is measured by $$$ not by making the thinnest, lightest, fastest ultra-portable. We could be in for a long indefinite wait.
Is that all bad? Looking further down the road maybe not. The iPad may or will I'd guess evolve into the only computing device we'll need. It wil have all the power, hook up wirelessly to ACD's, TV's, Keyboards etc.
But until then I'd like a full featured ultra-portable to use, I've given up hope Apple is going to fill that void anytime soon.
That seems a little silly at some point I would rather have raid10 or raid1. I suppose you can argue about backups but really how much I/O are you pushing on your laptop that you need 4xRaid0? You can make an argument about size but I'm of the opinion that currently you are never going to get enough storage on SSDs to get rid of external storage.
Not that much thicker (around .1" thicker). 0.93"-1.05" most of the chassis and 1.3" where the battery sticks out.
image source: laptopmag
There is rumour that Toshiba is planning to release the world's thinnest i5 standard voltage laptop. The simple trick is to remove the optical drive
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I own a 2008 Vaio SZ series. It was my fifth and final Sony Vaio laptop. They pack an amazing amount of high-end stuff into their PC's, wrap it in a really crappy container that cuts corners in all the places where they SHOULD have invested better, and then throw so much crapware onto the computer that the first thing I had to do was wipe the hard drive and re-install the OS from scratch. Of course, then half the high-end components no longer worked properly as Sony has some of the worst driver support in the industry...even if you attempt to re-download their drivers from their website (which hardly ever get updated). Then the hardware issues kick in....flimsy hinges on the screen, too much flex in the mostly-composite bodies, cheap ventilation system, power supplies that fray off within a month. And support was absolutely abysmal. It was self-serve at best and if you tried to find a Sony authorized dealer, their repair service was basically give us your laptop for a month and we'll get you a refurb'd unit eventually.
Sony makes some killer hardware on the spec sheet at least. But in use, I generally got 1 year of daily travel value out it before needing to do so many repairs that I'd end up replacing it. I fell for the "more specs is better" story so many times, which is why I went through so many iterations of their ultraportables. But in the end, I realize that Sony=low-end consumer GRADE equipment even if they stock it with a few professional grade components.
Buy what you want, but there is little to compare Sony to Lenovo, Apple, etc when it comes to overall durability and fit/finish. This has proven by so many different websites who look at long-term reliability stats that its common knowledge. I just want to save someone else from going down the "spec sheet" shopping hell I fell for. Its a gimmick and you'll regret it a year into the life of the machine, if not sooner.
Sony makes some killer hardware on the spec sheet at least. But in use, I generally got 1 year of daily travel value out it before needing to do so many repairs that I'd end up replacing it. I fell for the "more specs is better" story so many times, which is why I went through so many iterations of their ultraportables. But in the end, I realize that Sony=low-end consumer GRADE equipment even if they stock it with a few professional grade components.
Buy what you want, but there is little to compare Sony to Lenovo, Apple, etc when it comes to overall durability and fit/finish. This has proven by so many different websites who look at long-term reliability stats that its common knowledge. I just want to save someone else from going down the "spec sheet" shopping hell I fell for. Its a gimmick and you'll regret it a year into the life of the machine, if not sooner.
The clientele they WISH to cater to buys Lenovo X-series laptops, true business-class ultraportables.
The clientele they actually GET are exactly who they target: spec-crazy consumers who don't know any better. Why do you think they put so much trial-ware and crap-ware on these devices? Its simple...its because they need to subsidize the cost of the high-end components they do include inside their tissue boxes and they KNOW that the vast majority of their buyers don't know any better other than to sit down with their credit card and start signing up for full versions of all this garbage. They go after gullible customers and they get them. I know! I WAS one for years! Then they also know that the average life of one of their "high end" machines is about a year to 18 months so they build them to be disposable like that knowing that you'll fall for the same crap all over again.
Sony = consumer-grade equipment for consumer-grade thinkers.
2010 i7 15" MBP. Its my third MBP. I've been using a MBP of one flavor or another for many years now, but it wasn't my 'portable.' I went with the clamshell factor Mac as a means to save space on my already-cluttered desk and so it could follow me around my shop (meetings with clients, at my workbench, light travel, etc.)
I really WANT an MBA but couldn't bring myself to pay the price for one JUST for the portability factor. Especially not when compared to the MBP.
The Vaio was my ultraportable for years. Prior to 2008, I bought a new Sony Vaio, usually the highest-end model they had in the smallest form-factor, every 18 months or so. That was my 'no compromise' travel companion....until I learned what a waste of money it was. Every time I see one of these "ZOMG Sony makes the BEST stuff" I just throw up in my mouth a little...been burned so many times by their laptops. I was a fool.
I really WANT an MBA but couldn't bring myself to pay the price for one JUST for the portability factor. Especially not when compared to the MBP.
The Vaio was my ultraportable for years. Prior to 2008, I bought a new Sony Vaio, usually the highest-end model they had in the smallest form-factor, every 18 months or so. That was my 'no compromise' travel companion....until I learned what a waste of money it was. Every time I see one of these "ZOMG Sony makes the BEST stuff" I just throw up in my mouth a little...been burned so many times by their laptops. I was a fool.
Well, I'm all for that.
Apple could already do some cool things with the MBP in its current form factor, if they left out the optical drive.
Indeed. I have never met a hard core business user with a Sony, Only Dell/Lenovo/Apple (with maybe some HP thrown in).
Vaio also universally have crappy screens - which gives Apple a big leg up.
It's funny I run accross this thread because I have a Z but was considering switching to a 15" Macbook Pro for the bigger screen with similiar horsepower but one of the things holding me back is the screen quality is so much better on the Z than the 15" macbook pro...I just came back from Best Buy and was kind of put off by the screen on both the 13" and 15" MBP's they had there compared to the Z.
After seeing both the 13" and 15" MBP's it seems the 15" is just as portable as the 13" not sure what the concern is about there? Both are the same thickness the 15" is slightly longer and wider of course due to the screen but the weight is only 1 lb difference so it seems like the difference would be undiscernable once you throw it in your bag. Between the 13" MBP and the Z there is no doubt the Z is better in every way but I am still considering the 15" MBP even with the inferior (IMO) screen.
Mac pro 15" is about the only 15" I could switch to because it is very thin the rest i've seen are too thick to be considered portable IMO. I will probably order a 15" MBP from Amazon and give it a try for a week or so to see how I like it compared to the Z. This thread has been very informative, perhaps the screens at the Best Buy I went to were defective on both the 13" and 15"? Doesn't sound plausible but I guess i'll find out soon.
After seeing both the 13" and 15" MBP's it seems the 15" is just as portable as the 13" not sure what the concern is about there? Both are the same thickness the 15" is slightly longer and wider of course due to the screen but the weight is only 1 lb difference so it seems like the difference would be undiscernable once you throw it in your bag. Between the 13" MBP and the Z there is no doubt the Z is better in every way but I am still considering the 15" MBP even with the inferior (IMO) screen.
Mac pro 15" is about the only 15" I could switch to because it is very thin the rest i've seen are too thick to be considered portable IMO. I will probably order a 15" MBP from Amazon and give it a try for a week or so to see how I like it compared to the Z. This thread has been very informative, perhaps the screens at the Best Buy I went to were defective on both the 13" and 15"? Doesn't sound plausible but I guess i'll find out soon.
Uh, don't know what the heck you're talking about because the Z's screen is worse than the MBP, I'll explain..
While the Z has an amazing screen, very bright, very crisp and colors are rich, the problem is the horizontal viewing angles are very poor. The Z needs to be viewed spot on in order for it to look good. If two people look at it together it will appear yellowish because of the color shift.
True, both the MBP and the Sony have color shift due to being TN panels but the MBP has a much wider horizontal viewing angle before the color begins to shift and when it does shift it's very slight vs. how yellow the Z becomes.
Also you need to compare the matte version of the MBP because the Z (at least the ones I've tested) come with an antiglare screen. The glossy MBP's look different than the matte. The matte has a more natural look in terms of color uniformity. Take your Z to an Apple store and compare it to one of the antiglare MBP's.
Horizontal viewing angles? Have you ever seen a Z in person? Horizontal are great, its actually the exact opposite of what your saying, the vertical viewing angle of the Z is very narrow. It's one of the reasons I went to Best Buy to take a look at the MBP's was curious how much of a sweetspot they had but in the end it seemed very similiar to the Z. And BTW I don't see any "yellowish" tint at all you just lose color saturation of the screen when not in the sweetspot.
Anyways to each thier own but in my personal opinion having used the Z for a couple weeks now and seeing the MBP in person the Z has the better screen without a doubt compared to the MBP's at my Best Buy.
I still went ahead and ordered 15" MBP from Amazon just now so will compare once it arrives side by side with the Z, in the end I think both the Z and the 13" MBP screens are just too small for me and I think having all that power of the Z attached to a small 13" is kind of a waste. I wish they made a 15" Z I would be in heaven
Anyways to each thier own but in my personal opinion having used the Z for a couple weeks now and seeing the MBP in person the Z has the better screen without a doubt compared to the MBP's at my Best Buy.
I still went ahead and ordered 15" MBP from Amazon just now so will compare once it arrives side by side with the Z, in the end I think both the Z and the 13" MBP screens are just too small for me and I think having all that power of the Z attached to a small 13" is kind of a waste. I wish they made a 15" Z I would be in heaven
In the 13" 3lb category the Sony Z really has no competition.
There's not another computer that comes close to giving that much power, ports etc in a thin and light 3lb package.
If you want a powerful 3lb ultra-portable with a 13" display what do you buy? I don't know any other options other than the Z?
There's not another computer that comes close to giving that much power, ports etc in a thin and light 3lb package.
If you want a powerful 3lb ultra-portable with a 13" display what do you buy? I don't know any other options other than the Z?
Best Buy only stocks the standard-res glossy screen on the 15" MBP. Find an Apple store, and look at the hi-res AG versions. Excellent screen quality.
And IMHO, the single biggest advantage in the Mac hardware is the trackpad. Simply no contest in use, it blows away the trackpads of every other laptop. I had a Sony Z (search for my review last April), and the trackpad was complete garbage. This feature alone is worth the upgrade to the MBPs.
You make a good point but it's unfortunate to get the power of a Sony Z in a Mac you have to *double* the weight and buy a 15" ... not exactly an ultra-portable size or weight.
On the basis of hardware specifications alone, you are right. Unfortunately, build quality, and the ability to run both OS X and Windows without a hack still make the MBA worthy of consideration. Unfortunately, as matters now stand, I wouldn't buy either a Sony Vaio Z or an MBA right now. I have heard too many bad things about the reliability of Sony computers to be comfortable spending the kind of money it takes to buy a Vaio Z and the MBA is obsolescent. Maybe Apple will refresh the MBA, finally, one of these days but I'm not holding my breath.
Hi, i've been reading this thread with great interest - here goes my first post...
I'm in the market for a new ultraportable after my 4 year old Vaio SZ (predecessor to the Z) died on me last week - the hard drive's gone.
I'm surprised to hear talk of reliability problems with Vaios - 4 years is damn good going for a machine that's spent at least 9 months of each of those years being banged about airports, busses, hotels & bars. It's been a faultless workhorse since the day I bought it.
As almost all my travelling companions have macs (and believe me i'm reminded of it) it has to be said that my Vaio's provided far fewer hardware problems than any of the MacBooks that I've seen come & go.
I'm here because of course i can't buy a new laptop without at least considering the MBP. The way I see it:
PRO MBP:
OSX is in all probability a superior OS to Windows 7 - but windows 7 isn't all bad, it pisses on XP
MBP's got the looks
8 Hour Battery life (surfing, according to laptopmag.com)
Pro Vaio Z:
Smaller footprint
Lighter
Faster
Non-glossy
WWAN
Replacable battery (which was useful on the SZ, as the machine outlived the battery, so I just bought a new one and the machine was as new)
I've been going round in circles over it. I'm just going to have to live with this (emergency-bought) Samsung N210 for a couple of weeks until payday I guess....
To echo a previous poster, I guess the ideal for me would be Vaio Z hardware running MacOS.
Tom
I'm in the market for a new ultraportable after my 4 year old Vaio SZ (predecessor to the Z) died on me last week - the hard drive's gone.
I'm surprised to hear talk of reliability problems with Vaios - 4 years is damn good going for a machine that's spent at least 9 months of each of those years being banged about airports, busses, hotels & bars. It's been a faultless workhorse since the day I bought it.
As almost all my travelling companions have macs (and believe me i'm reminded of it) it has to be said that my Vaio's provided far fewer hardware problems than any of the MacBooks that I've seen come & go.
I'm here because of course i can't buy a new laptop without at least considering the MBP. The way I see it:
PRO MBP:
OSX is in all probability a superior OS to Windows 7 - but windows 7 isn't all bad, it pisses on XP
MBP's got the looks
8 Hour Battery life (surfing, according to laptopmag.com)
Pro Vaio Z:
Smaller footprint
Lighter
Faster
Non-glossy
WWAN
Replacable battery (which was useful on the SZ, as the machine outlived the battery, so I just bought a new one and the machine was as new)
I've been going round in circles over it. I'm just going to have to live with this (emergency-bought) Samsung N210 for a couple of weeks until payday I guess....
To echo a previous poster, I guess the ideal for me would be Vaio Z hardware running MacOS.
Tom
Tom -- I have had Mac laptops for going on 8 years and have loved them. Nevertheless, in your case, I think a Vaio Z might be a good choice. I run Windows 7 and several Windows apps in a VMware Fusion virtual machine on my Macbook Pro and agree that Win 7 is a good OS, by far the best Microsoft has yet come up with. It seems to me that you have made a pretty compelling case for sticking with Sony. After all, the new Vaio Z is as light as the Macbook Air and dramatically more powerful. In short, you might remember the old but good advice that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Good to hear from you gwsat.
Can I ask, why you've chosen mac over PC?
Is it just a cosmetic thing and the relative ease of use of OSX
Or did battling with Win95/WinXP over the years push you to mac, and so it's easier to stay there now?
Tom
Can I ask, why you've chosen mac over PC?
Is it just a cosmetic thing and the relative ease of use of OSX
Or did battling with Win95/WinXP over the years push you to mac, and so it's easier to stay there now?
Tom
I am an old time IT guy and worked in Windows shops for many years. I decided to move to Mac, in 2003, only because the Powerbook G4 was the only laptop on the market at the time that had a 17 inch screen. Better yet, it was also the thinnest laptop available and weighed only 6.5 pounds. Although I continued to use Windows for my work, I really liked OS X and the PB G4, which I used almost exclusively at home. I replaced the PB G4 with my current Macbook Pro in early 2008 for the express purpose of being able to run both Windows and OS X apps on the same computer. When I had only 2Gb of RAM, Windows apps were an iffy proposition but after I upgraded to 6Gb, which is the max this model of MBP can reliably handle, Windows apps started to run seamlessly with OS X apps. I have really enjoyed being able to use OS X and Windows apps interchangeably on my Mac. Also, Apple's customer support is in a class by itself.
I did not like the Vaio Z. The screen has issues with some wavy lines (way way way worse than the macbook air), and it's an endemic inverter problem.
It also is not made well, period. No one can convince me that it is made well. I have had too many issues with it, and there will be keyboard marks permanently embedded into the screen over time b/c the protection on the lid is so flimsy. It's just not a solid notebook--they went too far in an effort to make it light.
It also is not made well, period. No one can convince me that it is made well. I have had too many issues with it, and there will be keyboard marks permanently embedded into the screen over time b/c the protection on the lid is so flimsy. It's just not a solid notebook--they went too far in an effort to make it light.
What are you using as your alternative to the Sony Z?
I want a 3lb ultra portable but can't find one I like.