Microsoft Announces New 'Surface' Tablet, New Hardware and Software Based on Windows 8

[KnightWRX]

It could be argued, of course. But isn't it more likely that an article on Microsoft for Macrumors would be an appropriate place for apple fans to talk about its shortcomings and flaws?

Hum... no ? If you think the goal of the site is to praise Apple and bash the competition, you've missed the point by about 3 miles. A big userbase of Macrumors are not Apple "fans" as you put it, we're Apple users with an interest for the larger technology scene. I think you're looking for CultofMac or AppleInsider.

MacRumors is much more open minded in general.

 

[crs.one]

Can you provide citations for costs of operating the Ping service and the cost of the Zune vs the revenues it generated for both entities ?

Otherwise, you're showing bias in your opinion.

no, and it's not worth the research. Your bias wouldn't be easy to change any more than mine would.

Ping was embarrassing for sure, but I have little doubt that the majority of people would consider Zune a greater, more expensive, and more visible failure.

 

[PhoneI]

So I'm assuming the Pro model will have a CPU fan? Trying to imagine flying back on the red-eye, take out my new Microsoft tablet to do a little reading, all of a sudden the sound of a fan kicks in and wakes up the entire plane.

No thanks.

 

[OSMac]

I'm not sure on the timing of the announcement, they might have held off until closer to release date and preorders could be taken.

The Intel version of Surface is probably 9 months out !

I think they decided to go now to boost interest in Win 8 ,
which many desktop users had grown negative on.

 

[crs.one]

Hum... no ? If you think the goal of the site is to praise Apple and bash the competition, you've missed the point by about 3 miles. A big userbase of Macrumors are not Apple "fans" as you put it, we're Apple users with an interest for the larger technology scene. I think you're looking for CultofMac or AppleInsider.

MacRumors is much more open minded in general.

Of course not. The goal of the site is to attract readers and get advertising money.

It's not about the goal of the site. It's about the audience it caters to. If you come for a pleasant conversation about the virtues of Microsoft, you are very likely to meet resistance here.

 

[samcraig]

They can't even compete with Apple with their phone.

I doubt this is going to make an impact.

Just Balmer being Balmer and trying to conquer the world with bad ideas.



It might outsell a Speak-N-Spell but it won't be outselling the iPad.

In case you missed the product description - Surface isn't a phone. Does Microsoft even make an actual phone or just the OS for other manufacturers to make the phone? Hmmmm

Apples and Oranges.

 

[rpenzinger]

As for the second part of that quote, the LAST thing I want a tablet to remind me of is a car door. How is that a selling point?

c'mon…he did say 'high' end card door

 

[KnightWRX]

no, and it's not worth the research. Your bias wouldn't be easy to change any more than mine would.

I have no bias. I'm saying both companies failed in their respective endeavours as far as Ping and the Zune hardware goes. What bias are you claiming I have in all of this ?

Ping was embarrassing for sure, but I have little doubt that the majority of people would consider Zune a greater, more expensive, and more visible failure.

Speak for yourself unless you have evidence backing up your "majority" of people. Don't present your opinion as fact. You just seem to want Apple to not have failed as hard as Microsoft for some reason. Why is this ?

 

[rpenzinger]

If the Zune had a kickstand, things would have been very different

LOL with tears

 

[ctdonath]

The killer features:
- USB port
- Stand
- Keyboard
- Desktop-like OS features

For everyone who has complained about the iPad lacking a USB port, I've not yet heard a single justification of why they want a USB port. They'll run thru standardized rhetoric, but when pressed will realize nothing they've just said matters.

Want a stand? get a case with a stand. Very few people will want/like the stand that's built-in, which has a very low performance-per-volume ratio.

We'll see 3rd-party "smart keyboard covers" for the iPad within a week. One of those things which isn't hard at all to do, there just wasn't the demand for it. Many other kinds of Bluetooth keyboards have been available; pick the kind you want.

Tablets with desktop-like OS features have been around for a long time. They went nowhere.

Those "killer features" killed every tablet featuring them for the last two decades.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

If you want to stick to hardware and dismiss all the software examples, then iPod Hi-fi comes to mind after the Cube.

So what you're saying is that Apple flops are not flops and that Microsoft flops are big flops. Way to show bias there. Both companies had successes and flops in the last decades. That's just how the business is in consumer and enterprise product lines of software/hardware/services.

I personally don't think Apple has been any better than anyone else. Steve was no god, he made mistakes as much as the next guy.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and it's not what the original poster warning people about M$ products was suggesting either.

What I'm saying is that Apple flops, with maybe the exception of iWeb, don't leave consumers high and dry. And even with iWeb, it was known from Day One, that any site created with it couldn't be exported. Consumers knew what they were getting into; that it was a one-way ticket. You are correct about the Hi-Fi. Dumb product. But even today the Hi-Fi works fine b/c it's just a speaker. You can't say that about the vast majority of Microsoft flops.

Also, it's dubious to suggest iDVD or iDisk were flops. They were long-lived, popular products, with many updates. Nothing lives forever. But Microsoft products like the Kin, UltimateTV, and the Zune didn't last long at all. The Kin lasted, what all of 3 months.

 

[KnightWRX]

Of course not. The goal of the site is to attract readers and get advertising money.

It's not about the goal of the site. It's about the audience it caters to. If you come for a pleasant conversation about the virtues of Microsoft, you are very likely to meet resistance here.

And the audience it caters to is not the close-minded "Apple does no wrong" crowd. If you are part of that crowd, you're probably in a minority on Macrumors and you'll meet a lot of resistance here. If you want to discuss things with people who never critic Apple and never praise Apple's competition, you should consider visiting one of the sites I listed. Those cater much more to the "hardcore, let's ignore anything wrong with Apple" crowd.

 

[bbeagle]

We'll see 3rd-party "smart keyboard covers" for the iPad within a week. One of those things which isn't hard at all to do, there just wasn't the demand for it. Many other kinds of Bluetooth keyboards have been available; pick the kind you want.

"Smart keyboard covers" are around NOW, and HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR OVER A YEAR! (Go into a Brookstone, for example, to see them)

Why are Microsoft fanboys drooling over something that iPads have always had?

 

[KnightWRX]

What I'm saying is that Apple flops, with maybe the exception of iWeb, don't leave consumers high and dry. And even with iWeb, it was known from Day One, that any site created with it couldn't be exported. Consumers knew what they were getting into; that it was a one-way ticket. You are correct about the Hi-Fi. Dumb product. But even today the Hi-Fi works fine b/c it's just a speaker. You can't say that about the vast majority of Microsoft flops.

And the Zune players work fine, and the Kin phones work fine. Heck, my HP TouchPad works fine to this day, I even got a software update for it recently. I don't think any companies leaves paying customers "high and dry" like you put it, not Apple, not anyone else.

That's my point really. Apple is no better or worse than any players in this regard. They've all had failures, they've all discontinued products but in the end, hardware devices keep working.

I'd argue it's more companies that fail at online services that leaves customers high and dry, not at hardware products.

 

[foodog]

Apple had to provide server architecture, got a few top celebrities on board (probably at some cost. I don't think Lady Gaga gave a damn about Ping otherwise) to advertise their stuff and try to bring in users, spent time integrating it.

Microsoft on the other hand managed to sell quite a few Zune units to recoup the cost, still operates the Zune Store for their XBox line-up and desktop line-ups, having only discontinued the hardware line-up...

Nope, looks pretty on par to me. Why do you guys don't want it to be so ? I'm as anti-Microsoft as anybody can be (based on their industry practices of the 90s, early 00s, general bad behavior and anti-trust issues), but really, let's not pretend Apple is some god industry player while Microsoft is a failure.

Servers are commodity items hardly worth mentioning as a cost. Most data centers are running virtual servers now anyway. Its a non effort to remove or add these VMs as needed. The data centers were there and or being built for the iCloud infrastructure.

Here is the difference.... the Zune was marketed as the iPod killer and failed miserably, along with several other follies. What was Ping designed to compete against? It is not like Amazon had this amazing social networking piece that was taking all the digital music business. Ping was a bolt on part to iTunes because Facebook and Apple couldn't come to terms to integrate Facebook with iTunes.

I'm not elevating Apple to any status. I'm also not lowering them to the same level as Microsoft in terms of money hemorrhaging failures.

 

[ctdonath]

Does Microsoft even make an actual phone or just the OS for other manufacturers to make the phone?

Does Apple even make an actual phone or just the OS for other manufacturers (Foxconn, etc.) to make the phone?

Maybe you missed it: Microsoft DID make a phone (a la Apple's phone) called the "Kin". They spent a half-billion dollars creating it. They sold 500. No, that wasn't a typo: M$ sold five hundred phones, spending a million dollars on each one to make fifty bucks revenue on each one.

 

[justjohn025]

I'm thinking these will be out by holiday 2012, if not, they'll have a hard time selling them the beginning of next year.

 

[ctdonath]

the Kin phones work fine.

They'd better. Microsoft sunk a million bucks into each one.

 

[RMarch]

Hmmm.. I don't see it.

I really don't see what is unique about this product. It's a slate windows PC. Period. There really is nothing else there. Through in a kickstand and basically a very nice aftermarket bluetooth keyboard, and you are there.

So this is the same exact Bill Gates vision from over a decade ago, just updated with modern hardware. Anyone remember the Motion Computing M1200 circa 2002? Windows Slate Tablet with pen, kickstand and detachable keyboard! It is the exact same concept, just a bit newer tech. Heck the Intel version even has a fan to keep it all nice and familiar.

Now, granted Windows 8 is a big potential step up from the original Windows XP Tablet OS, but I honestly don't think it is nearly enough. This concept has been tried and failed in the broader market time and time again. Great Niche product for healthcare, warehouse, etc.

Also keep in mind this will be competing directly with Microsoft's partners. This is not Apple's model of simplicity. There are multiple version of Surface alongside dozens of OEM models. Great choice, but these are not free on contract like a phone. The Android ecosystems works well due to carrier subsidies. Non tech consumers don't have to give much thought to free so the different models move. Perplex a customer that has to drop a $1000, that is another story.

Now as has been stated time and time again, we don't know price or battery life. MS has stated the RT version will compete with the iPad and not the Fire on price (not in so many words but that is certainly the consensus). Also stated the Pro version will compete with Ultrabooks, no the iPad on price. So price is not a differentiator. Android will most likely keep that crown.

So all I really see for this device is a slice of the enterprise and corporate market. Wait, there is one catch. Most enterprises skipped Vista and are full on deploying Windows 7. That perfect storm of low Vista adoption couple with strong Windows 7 will put Windows 8 behind the ball (you know which one) in the Enterprise. I am talking about the macro picture here. There will be plenty of individual stories of adoption, but on average, this will be a very slow uptake in the enterprise.

So while I do admire Microsoft for their bold moves with both Windows 8 and the Surface, I don't see how this is going to be a runaway success (if it is a success at all). Windows 8 certainly will sell in huge volume as Windows always does, but the Microsoft hardware share for Surface will most likely be small based on the information we have today.

 

[KnightWRX]

I'm not elevating Apple to any status. I'm also not lowering them to the same level as Microsoft in terms of money hemorrhaging failures.

Microsoft profits are about as high as Apple profits, if not higher in some instances.

No, I think you're lowering Microsoft, which in turn does serve to elevate Apple. They are on pretty equal footing. Let's not pretend otherwise, that's just biased and foolish. Both entities do not release enough financial information to just make up facts like some of you seem to do.

Why do you and crs.one want Microsoft to have failed so badly ? Who cares if Apple failed at something, what does it change in your lives ?

 

[johncrab]

I can't wait to see some doofus in an airport trying to use one of these on his lap. I don't get a lot of big laughs when I travel. That will be a golden moment.

 

[samcraig]

We'll see 3rd-party "smart keyboard covers" for the iPad within a week. One of those things which isn't hard at all to do, there just wasn't the demand for it. Many other kinds of Bluetooth keyboards have been available; pick the kind you want.

Interesting (what I bolded). Since this is exactly the pro-Apple argument usually made. XX was around - but then Apple made it popular. So are you saying that Microsoft is going to make this type of case/keyboard popular?

 

[bbeagle]

This is totally opposite of that. This is Microsoft tell us the consumers, "touch is great but we know you love your keyboard so we made this new tablet that's all about the keyboard with a touchpad".

Which will make the touch part of the device fail.

Think about the United States. We have BOTH a small $1 coin and a $1 paper bill. We've had both in circulation since 1979 (33 years now!!!). The hope was that to save money, people would start using the $1 coins. But that never happened, like it has happened in almost every other country. Why? The United States never got rid of the $1 paper bill when it introduced the $1 coin, so people kept to their habits and use the $1 paper bill more.

Steve Jobs wanted to usher in this new era, therefore he made the iPad work, by default, touch only. And he even introduced a bluetooth keyboard DAY ONE the original iPad was released for those who didn't feel comfortable. But by making them separate, he encouraged touch (which is the 'killer feature' on the iPad) to succeed.

Touch is done right on the iPad, and Microsoft doesn't get it. Why would I want to reach my hand up to touch things on the screen when a mouse is easier? I wouldn't. This whole form-factor with the kickstand is all wrong for touch. Good for a desktop, but not good for either a laptop setting (kickstand doesn't work on my lap!), for portrait view (kickstand only works one way), or reading lying down.

 

[ctdonath]

I still believe the USB drive was left out of the iPad to preserve its form factor.

Goes way beyond that.

Full USB support (implied by having the port built in) means supporting classic file systems - something which Apple desperately wanted to sever from the user experience. No more convoluted trees of hundreds of folders with tens/hundreds of thousands of files with all the user-interface overhead to access them. User-facing file systems are now a crippling factor in moving the user experience forward; better to let each app manage its own files, not worrying that someone/something else will move stuff around or that users may do something stupid.

Full USB support also implies support of anything that can be plugged in. Everyone would start whining at Apple about not supporting their webcam, obscure MP3 player, semicustom devices, or whatever they can manage to attach. Users would start complaining at Apple about all the cables and other devices they'd have to carry with an otherwise svelt slate. USB has been around a long time, with LOTS of devices expecting support. Drop the USB port, stop trying to attach the past; let it move into the wireless future.

And, of course, dropping the port means saving a nontrivial amount of product volume. The device must be utterly thin/light for success, and USB is something few users would in fact use to any meaningful degree. It's 2012 already, stop loading tiny products down with old interfaces.

 

[ReanimationN]

Oh yes, because if you watch the video at 14m 30s for about 20 seconds you will see a product that locks up and the presenter has to get another one just to continue. Seriously? WTH are you thinking SB?? How in the hell do you even bother with a product that locks up and freezes at it's coming out party. Sad.

Oh come on, like Apple has never had a tech stuff up at any of their presentations?

1:08- "Alright... Looks like we've got a little bug here."

1:37- "Alright... *Switches to another machine*... Well that's why we have backup systems here."

2:24- Steve trying to get a camera to work with OS X.

2:54- Phil launching Quake, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting... "Err, we're going to have to try this again later Steve."

Or Steve demoing the iPhone 4's speed on Wi-Fi.. And not being able to get it connected, then having it run dog slow. And then later getting cranky at everyone in the room for making the Wi-Fi connection run slowly.

If you want to judge the product, judge it when it is released, not based on a stuff-up in a tech demo presentation. Do you think the iPhone 4 or OS X are awful products for not working properly in tech demos?