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Microsoft Announces New 'Surface' Tablet, New Hardware and Software Based on Windows 8

G51989 said:
They still have the option to upgrade to 7 whenever they want, but the great thing about windows is, and what I think keeps so many people and business's coming back to it, is that if you upgrade to say, Windows 7. There is a VERY good chance that all your software as well as your OS will be supported for 10+ years. Which saves a ton of money as opposed to Apples " Upgrade every 2 years or **** you " policy.

Different strokes for different folks.

I just find it totally insane that a 2006 Intel Mac is mostly useless today for newer software.

Kind of makes me sad, my new iMac might very well be the last Mac I ever buy, I refuse to spend 3K on a toy ( well toy for me anyway ) computer, or ANY computer for that matter. And have it be useless in a few years.
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Yep. Windows XP still usable is a big advantage for Windows adoption as a corporate OS. OSX Leopard hardly can run any newer app. My Snow Leopard probably will be declared unsupported at the launch of Mountain Lion, so maybe I'll be "forced" to upgrade and reconfigure all of my productivity apps since Mountain Lion probably won't take into account that there are /etc/*.conf to be migrated or *.tar.gz to be reinstalled or kept where they are.

I would love to upgrade my OS every year if it kept every config I made in the previous version and older software still supported by the new installation. But this can't be guaranteed neither by Apple or Microsoft.

Windows Vista, the so called "big mistake" from Microsoft (I disagree) had updates for 6 years (2006-2012). Also, it still receives updates of some apps like anti-malwares and third-party ones. I believe anyone could still buy a second-hand FPP license of Windows Vista today and have a decent OS for at least more 3 years. The same is not valid for a six-years-old OS from Apple.
 
theelysium said:
What are you talking about? You don't make sense. Windows and Mac OS X apply software updates the same. You can't slap Windows 7 on a Windows 98 box & you can't slap Lion on a Panther box. So, you are wrong Windows and Mac are the same in that regard. There is a hardware and software compatibility limitation that all devices are subjected to.

At least when it's time to upgrade software Mac OS X costs a few dollars and there is one version to buy, but Windows costs hundred of dollars and you have a bunch of confusing versions to choose from. Why can't it just be Windows? :confused:

BTW you can upgrade Mac hardware you have to know what you are doing.
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If you must know why there's so many versions of Windows, it's because they cater to end users like yourself, small businesses, and fortune 500 companies. Do you really think that someone like yourself wants a full active sync control panel on their desktop? Likewise, a server that's optimized for database speed doesn't need Windows Media Center. Different strokes for different folks you might say.
 
G51989 said:
Which is totally why 90 percent of desktop and laptop computers run windows?

And more people use android. Than iOS~

AND if OSX " just works " how come it can't run any decent sized simulations that the company I work for makes? Why does it just hit its 96gb of ram read limit, and then crashs? If windows sucks so bad, how come it can handle massive simulations, and OSX can't?
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I think everyone knows why 90 percent of desktops and laptop computers run Windows and it isn't because it's a better operating system. ;) Microsoft have historically been masters at cajoling hardware partners to get their software put on over the last few decades. Apple has been horrid at that sort of thing, probably always will be, given how they have their business structured.

It would be great if OS X could scream through >96GB of RAM and not miss a beat, maybe they will some day. At the moment, that might be an edge case more than a necessity, though I'm sure the video folks may have a different opinion (don't know). Linux does our heavy lifting at work and like most who concentrate on high TPS and high availability, the model is more of a distributed one, not one monster machine. Obviously, Apple will never be a big iron sort of company as that isn't their focus.

While the OS wars will rage on and provide amusement every now and then, what's interesting here in this thread is the number of people who love to run old hardware and old software for years. Personally, I run pc/laptop hardware for maybe 4 years and update, and I always upgrade to the latest version of the operating system. If the apps I use don't upgrade, then obviously I'm screwed, but for me, that hasn't been true.

At the most fundamental level, an OS is going to provide system level services, device control, etc. If you strip away the eye-candy, any OS at any given time will do most thing efficiently. It's the subjective side that drives the heated debate (at least in my opinion), from everything including the support model (should I maintain support for 10+ years or push people forward every couple?) to windows eye-candy and flow. My preferred OS is Mac OS. I like how it marries the fundamentals and the eye-candy and lets me interact across a lot of disparate environments. My next preferred is Linux - I can go grab the kernel code if I want to tweak something and I've been a *Nix guy for a long time - it's great for power users and geeks like self. Windows has always been a love/hate relationship. It carries legacy baggage forward for a long time, the eye candy and flow haven't really done it for me, but tends to be a pretty straight forward system to use.

As you say, different strokes.
 
Why are Apple fans getting so upset? Surface tablets are barely going to sell. Apple will sell 30 million iPads next quarter, Surface 0. Holiday quarter - 45 million iPads, Surface 300K. That's the reality of it, so why so angry?
 
smoledman said:
Why are Apple fans getting so upset? Surface tablets are barely going to sell. Apple will sell 30 million iPads next quarter, Surface 0. Holiday quarter - 45 million iPads, Surface 300K. That's the reality of it, so why so angry?
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It really depends on how the business world takes it, iOS just doesn't make sense in the business world as a whole. This tablet runs a real OS and has a keyboard, and much more power than an ipad.

I think it might end up creating its own market.

It could be a very good mobile gaming platform as well
 
G51989 said:
It really depends on how the business world takes it, iOS just doesn't make sense in the business world as a whole. This tablet runs a real OS and has a keyboard, and much more power than an ipad.

I think it might end up creating its own market.

It could be a very good mobile gaming platform as well
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If iPads make no sense in business, then why have millions of them already been deployed to enterprises? You don't know what you're talking about. Fact is iPad supports LOB applications which is exactly why business need.
 
smoledman said:
If iPads make no sense in business, then why have millions of them already been deployed to enterprises? You don't know what you're talking about. Fact is iPad supports LOB applications which is exactly why business need.
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A couple million ipads in the business world is good, but that's hardly mainstream.

To really become a laptop replacement, the ipad needs to become way more productive. And powerful.

I do work for a pretty big company. The main reason we didn't go for iPads is, lack of a real OS, no keyboard, lack of power, and the walled garden

Our IT guy is already interested in these, they address the ipads short commings.

I bet we might see an ipad pro running osx at some point.

the ipad also doesn't support legacy software, and that can be a problem
 
G51989 said:
A couple million ipads in the business world is good, but that's hardly mainstream.

To really become a laptop replacement, the ipad needs to become way more productive. And powerful.

I do work for a pretty big company. The main reason we didn't go for iPads is, lack of a real OS, no keyboard, lack of power, and the walled garden

Our IT guy is already interested in these, they address the ipads short commings.

I bet we might see an ipad pro running osx at some point.

the ipad also doesn't support legacy software, and that can be a problem
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Even if it's only a couple of million iPads in business, that's 2 million more then Windows/Android tablets. Every day another business adopts the iPad. The Surface isn't coming out until Q4, which means the iPad gets yet another quarter all to itself to utterly dominate everything.

Besides Apple's fundamental bet is that you get an iPad for touch-centric consuming apps and you get a Mac for content creation. That's just how you do it.
 
G51989 said:
It really depends on how the business world takes it, iOS just doesn't make sense in the business world as a whole. This tablet runs a real OS and has a keyboard, and much more power than an ipad.

I think it might end up creating its own market.

It could be a very good mobile gaming platform as well
Click to expand...

I have to disagree - iOS (and Android) makes great sense in the business world. We're handing iPads out to techs in the field. Despite the misinformation about iOS not being a "full OS", it very much is. People may want to do more with it or want it to do more, but that's a different story ;). There's a great secure, mature distribution model, and you can add very sophisticated functionality very easily. It interacts perfectly and securely with internal networks, has great location and messaging functionality available with a few lines of code, great touch gestures for manipulation and flow, easy but sophisticated web service interaction capabilities, and a host of other functionality. The response has been overwhelmingly positive - fast, powerful, portable, cellular/wifi, secure, great screens, easy to use, great battery life, centrally maintained, decent dev ecosystem. Seems to make business sense to me.
 
r.harris1 said:
I have to disagree - iOS (and Android) makes great sense in the business world. We're handing iPads out to techs in the field. Despite the misinformation about iOS not being a "full OS", it very much is. People may want to do more with it or want it to do more, but that's a different story ;). There's a great secure, mature distribution model, and you can add very sophisticated functionality very easily. It interacts perfectly and securely with internal networks, has great location and messaging functionality available with a few lines of code, great touch gestures for manipulation and flow, easy but sophisticated web service interaction capabilities, and a host of other functionality. The response has been overwhelmingly positive - fast, powerful, portable, cellular/wifi, secure, great screens, easy to use, great battery life, centrally maintained, decent dev ecosystem. Seems to make business sense to me.
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I do agree with pretty much every positive thing said about the iPad, its not for me ( to slow, mobile OS. No keyboard )

I do need to disagree about some parts of iOS. It can't multi task, it doesn't support pretty much anything I use, and I just find it well. Primitive, for someone doing a ton of typing, or power point, or office or anything that needs a keyboard.

I thin windows 8 will be better than iOS in an enterprise situtation ( id type more. But hey, I'm on a garbage phone with garbage android lol )
 
2IS said:
I see the problem here. You don't actually know what a fact is.
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The following anecdote is all too common.

"Before using a Mac, I used PCs, just like many other people that are now Mac users. Like most, I found the experience frustrating and more work than what it was worth to just keep it up and running.

What’s funny is that things haven’t changed that much. I have two PCs (Dell and Gateway) in the house right now. They are probably around three and five years old, respectively. Neither of them work."

Just ask the owners of iPhones, iPads, MBA's/MBP's (hands down the best laptops) that you see when you are out and about. I ask the people I see in airport terminals, on the light rail, coffee shops, etc. and get similar responses like above.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/07/05/i-use-apple-products-because-they-work-its-that-simple/
 
smoledman said:
Besides Apple's fundamental bet is that you get an iPad for touch-centric consuming apps and you get a Mac for content creation. That's just how you do it.
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You're correct, and I think people don't give the iPad enough credit for content creation. It does a great job at it, but not anything that requires heavy lifting.

The iPad wasn't built for heavy lifting, and I see the Surface as being the tablet that is. Having a full OS means immediate implementation into a SMB's environment without having to adjust an already smooth running machine.

Add to that full business apps that are already custom made or mass produced in the wild. The benefit of a device that is actually a laptop replacement, and an ecosystem that is already dominent in the enterprise and SMB market.

The Surface is nothing to sneeze at. I agree with another poster, the Surface is just in a different league at this point. iPad for consumption, Surface for creation.
 
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One thing it's easy to notice that people using Apple products always seem to have a smile on their face, while Windows users always are frowning.

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Digital Skunk said:
You're correct, and I think people don't give the iPad enough credit for content creation. It's does a great job at it, but not anything that require heavy lifting.

The iPad wasn't built for heavy lifting, and I see the Surface as being the tablet that is. Having a full OS means immediate implementation into a SMB's environment without having to adjust an already smooth running machine.

Add to that full business apps that are already custom made or mass produced in the wild. The benefit of a device that is actually a laptop replacement, and an ecosystem that is already dominent in the enterprise and SMB market.

The Surface is nothing to sneeze at. I agree with another poster, the Surface is just in a different league at this point. iPad for consumption, Surface for creation.
Click to expand...

iPad & Surface RT = consumption
Surface Pro = creation
 
smoledman said:
One thing it's easy to notice that people using Apple products always seem to have a smile on their face, while Windows users always are frowning.

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iPad & Surface RT = consumption
Surface Pro = creation
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I'm using Windows 7 right now, running a pretty huge simulation

If I was on a Mac running OSX, I would take 3 times longer, run into its 96gb of ram limit ( virtual memory isn't an option ). Which crash the software, then the OSX. Then id be all :(
 
iPad in the enterprise. Really, it depends on your environment. An example: Many corporations run MS Project server... and there's no way you're getting MS Project client on an iPad. No way, no how. And if our execs can't update their projects on the iPad they're essentially useless to them.

iPads remain consumer-oriented. Any enterprise adoption is largely for email, web apps (as long as they work and display correctly in Safari/Webkit), and perhaps custom in-house iOS apps. You're not going to get integration (even loose integration) with backend and endpoint enterprise systems that run Windows.

A Surface Pro tablet will bridge the gap. Even a WinRT tablet runs a greater chance a Metro app will be written to talk to Microsoft's popular products and platforms. Also, MS can alter RT to allow better connectivity with their backend... where they can't make any alterations on iOS, they have to keep within Apple's guidelines.

Make no mistake, a strong tablet showing by MS and other PC manufacturers, plus Windows 8 (especially the Desktop, which is essentially Windows 7 -- a great OS) will see strong enterprise adoption, even if IT managers have to be the ones pushing it. Often, they know what's better for the business and its infrastructure, where the Guy in Marketing just wants his chrome-backed iPad because he uses one at home.
 
linux2mac said:
The following anecdote is all too common.

"Before using a Mac, I used PCs, just like many other people that are now Mac users. Like most, I found the experience frustrating and more work than what it was worth to just keep it up and running.

What’s funny is that things haven’t changed that much. I have two PCs (Dell and Gateway) in the house right now. They are probably around three and five years old, respectively. Neither of them work."

Just ask the owners of iPhones, iPads, MBA's/MBP's (hands down the best laptops) that you see when you are out and about. I ask the people I see in airport terminals, on the light rail, coffee shops, etc. and get similar responses like above.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/07/05/i-use-apple-products-because-they-work-its-that-simple/
Click to expand...

Anecdotes aren't facts and I can find you people saying they have a windows machine running just fine. In fact, several in this thread have said just that.

Lets not pretend Apple doesn't have problems. The Genius Bar in the back of every Apple Store isn't there to make you a cocktail.

Then there are those people who claim their Mac is so much better than their PC ever was, many of these folks are the same people who spent $400 on their PC and $1400 on ther Mac.

Thats really the main disticntion. You can very easily buy a ****** PC and that's not really possible on the Apple side. That does NOT mean however you can't buy a very good PC. When given the option however, many consumers can't pass up the walmart specials.

I have apple/mac products as well as high end PC's and my apple devices aren't any better, they're just different. I prefer Apple for my mobile computing, that's why I own a 3rd gen iPad, iPhone 4 and a Macbook Air. I prefer a PC for a powerful desktop machine and that's exactly what I have. They ALL work great.

The difference between someone like me and someone like you is that I'm not blinded by brand loyalty. If my PC products were as horrible as you pretend they are, I wouldn't use them.

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linux2mac said:
I can't wait to see the media photos of the massive lines of people outside of Microsoft stores if the Surface ever comes to fruition. Or will MS have to bribe people with free concert tickets again like they did for the Windows Phone release?

MAYBE MICROSOFT SHOULD GET INTO THE CONCERT TICKET BUSINESS?
http://www.razorianfly.com/2011/10/...d-get-into-the-concert-ticket-business-video/

LOL!
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It's retarded posts/people like this that give a lot of Apple users a bad name. No one here is saying it's going to sell anywhere near as well as an iPad. In fact, I'm sure everone here knows that it isn't.
 
Renzatic said:
So Apple took someone else's idea, improved upon it a bit, and you consider that innovation?

Microsoft takes someone else's idea, improves upon it a bit, and that's unoriginal bald faced copying?

Posts. Videos. Whatever. Anything to do with who did what first is totally and completely pointless.
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Of course, it wouldn't have been any other way on MacRumors. Mac fansite or not, some of the posters here just have an unsophisticated approach in discussion and are VERY myopic.

linux2mac said:
I can't wait to see the media photos of the massive lines of people outside of Microsoft stores if the Surface ever comes to fruition. Or will MS have to bribe people with free concert tickets again like they did for the Windows Phone release?

LOL!
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Marketing and promotion is all that it is. Apple just doesn't have to do anything that drastic. The fanbase does a better job than the cash Apple throws around. The MS and Apple's roles have reversed since the late 90's and early 2000's.
 
linux2mac said:
I can't wait to see the media photos of the massive lines of people outside of Microsoft stores if the Surface ever comes to fruition. Or will MS have to bribe people with free concert tickets again like they did for the Windows Phone release?

MAYBE MICROSOFT SHOULD GET INTO THE CONCERT TICKET BUSINESS?
http://www.razorianfly.com/2011/10/...d-get-into-the-concert-ticket-business-video/

LOL!
Click to expand...
Don't worry, Microsoft isn't crap apple. YOu don't have to worry about that.

:D:D:D:D:D:D;)
 
TechRadar got some hands on and looks like they are digging it

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/tablets/microsoft-surface-tablet-1085839/review

Surface-HandsOn-12-580-100.JPG


Magnesium chassis, vapour deposition coating, cutaway edges, ClearType HD display; the design credentials and the specs for Microsoft's new Windows RT tablet are impressive and in the flesh this is a delightful piece of hardware that looks good – and is practical too.
It's thin, it's light, it's comfortable to hold, it runs Windows RT as excellently as you'd expect, it makes you want to touch it but it's also designed so you can snap the magnetically attached cover into place – in no way similar to any competitor idea...
Click to expand...
 
G51989 said:
It really depends on how the business world takes it, iOS just doesn't make sense in the business world as a whole. This tablet runs a real OS and has a keyboard, and much more power than an ipad.

I think it might end up creating its own market.

It could be a very good mobile gaming platform as well
Click to expand...

*Scratches Head*

iOS Devices Beat Androids In Enterprise Penetration; Apple Still Dominates Business World: Report (May 2012)
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/335...oids-enterprise-iphone-4s-ipad-blackberry.htm

And

"[The iPhone] doesn't appeal to business customers because it doesn't have a keyboard. Which makes it not a very good email machine." (Steve Ballmer 2007)
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-06-30/tech/29972743_1_phones-macworld-interviewer
 
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