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Microsoft Announces New 'Surface' Tablet, New Hardware and Software Based on Windows 8

2IS said:
What would you call an optional, detachable keyboard if not a "feature"? It also doesn't "need" a trackpad.

Your understanding of the quoted words differ from my own.
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When I hear comparisons to a laptop, and someone mentions "you can detach the keyboard" it doesn't strike me (personally) as a feature, as I have never found myself wanting to do that on my laptop.

2IS said:
I have... I thought a keyboard would be nice to use with the ipad until I experience the frustration of having to reach up to touch the screen. Made using the keyboard more cumbersome than it was worth. A touch pad for those circumstances would have been ideal.
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So we have gathered some anecdotal evidence here, I guess it depends on how you work. I tend to use it on a pretty low table with the iPad facing up which I have no problems with.
 
subsonix said:
Have you used it? Does it have a real keyboard? Why is detaching the keyboard a "feature"? Why does a "touch" OS need a track pad? I'm not saying that people who like W8 and want a tablet will not like it, but it's not really a full laptop. Viewed as a laptop, it's one of compromises.
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Per engadget

What's 3mm thick, crafted from the finest Polartec and attaches to a tablet magnetically? If you guessed an iPad smart cover you might be right, but right now we're pretty enamored with Microsoft's Touch Cover for the newly announced Surface. See, it works almost exactly like that other "smart" tablet shield, but this one actually earns it's smart moniker.
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The awesome thing is each (nicely spaced) key is an individual accelerometer. It can distinguish almost key presses from actual ones, smartly, and has much faster response than previous ones. It's the same tech as in the widely liked sidewinder x4 kb. Plus its more secure than apples "smart cover"

Why a keyboard trackpad on a touch centric tablet? Well, you're getting the worlds best productivity software, MS Office, and it's a better interface. Numbers on an iPad is awkward as he'll compared to even a laptop.

And again.. Not a laptop, but it's 90% of a laptops capability PLUS TOUCH (AND STYLUS), all in a non awkward to move around with format.

If you try to touch your MacBook screen, what do you get? Fingerprints, not immersion.
 
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subsonix said:
When I hear comparisons to a laptop, and someone mentions "you can detach the keyboard" it doesn't strike me (personally) as a feature, as I have never found myself wanting to do that on my laptop.
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Okay, best way to explain it. Imagine a machine roughly the size of the iPad. It's probably somewhere between the size of it and a Macbook Air.

It has a touchscreen and a keyboard with a trackpad. We'll call it the iMacPad Air Pro.

When you turn it on, it takes you to a very iPad like Springboard setup. On this screen, you can choose to run either iOS apps, or OSX apps. If you want to use your iMacPad Air Pro as a tablet, you can detach the keyboard, and go about launching all the iPad apps you know and love. It's roughly the same size as an iPad, so it's not really any more difficult to carry around.

But the iMacPad Air Pro is also an x86 device. If you want to, you can launch an OSX application, which then takes you to the Lion desktop. For that, you'll want a keyboard with a trackpad. So you just snap it back on, and do something in Pages or something.

See what's so great about it? Assuming it's comfortable to use, then it's a brilliant device, capable of doing what you want when you want it. You don't have to lug around a clamshell laptop if all you want to do is read a book or check out maps while you're driving around, and you have access to a full blown ultrabook with all the applications that work better in a more traditional desktop environment if you need them.
 
subsonix said:
When I hear comparisons to a laptop, and someone mentions "you can detach the keyboard" it doesn't strike me (personally) as a feature, as I have never found myself wanting to do that on my laptop.



So we have gathered some anecdotal evidence here, I guess it depends on how you work. I tend to use it on a pretty low table with the iPad facing up which I have no problems with.
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It's not a laptop. It's a tablet featuring a detachable keyboard. Pretty simple concept and you don't have to like the surface to understand it. Still begs the question, what would you call a tablet with an optional detachable keyboard if not a feature? I understand you don't think it's a feature, or it doesn't strike you as a feature, or however else you want to phrase the same thing in a different way, but again, what WOULD you call it? We already know what you WOULDN'T call it. (even though you haven't really given a reason)
 
2IS said:
It's not a laptop.
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I think you will need to go back to see how I entered the discussion. My opinion is that if you really need a laptop, the surface will be a compromise. In that scenario if the keyboard is detachable or not, is moot. My opinion, please let's end this now, people can have different opinions.
 
subsonix said:
I think you will need to go back to see how I entered the discussion. My opinion is that if you really need a laptop, the surface will be a compromise. In that scenario if the keyboard is detachable or not, is moot. My opinion, please let's end this now, people can have different opinions.
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Saying it's a compromise is false equivalence, though. It's as capable, 90% as expandable, but then is in a completely different class of convenience in interface.

It's a good idea to end your argument because it's not really objective.
 
subsonix said:
I think you will need to go back to see how I entered the discussion. My opinion is that if you really need a laptop, the surface will be a compromise. In that scenario if the keyboard is detachable or not, is moot. My opinion, please let's end this now, people can have different opinions.
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I'm not trying to change your mind, i'm trying to understand it. What if what you really want is one device that you can easily sit on the couch and consume content with, but also be able to be quite productive with?

Your basing your opinion on what the Surface is not and completely ignoring what the Surface is. This makes your opinion rather baseless.
 
subsonix said:
Surface is a tablet running W8.
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Nope. It's a Tablaptop...book...thing...let.

FWIW, you can be productive with an iPad as well depending on what you do. Here's a guy that does C++ development on the Jaguar super computer with an iPad, ssh and linode for example. http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-an-ipad
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Yup. No one ever said that an iPad was completely useless for any productivity. But really, what's the difference between the Surface and it's thin detachable keyboard, and an iPad with Apple's wireless keyboard?
 
Renzatic said:
But really, what's the difference between the Surface and it's thin detachable keyboard, and an iPad with Apple's wireless keyboard?
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I have not used one, but the cover is reportedly 3mm thick, so it appears to be a touch sensitive surface rather than actual buttons.
 
subsonix said:
Surface is a tablet running W8.

FWIW, you can be productive with an iPad as well depending on what you do. Here's a guy that does C++ development on the Jaguar super computer with an iPad, ssh and linode for example. http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-an-ipad
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Um, really?

You spend how many posts shooting down the Surface's keyboard & track pad solution and then as your example of someone doing productive work w/a iPad you post a link to a guy who's 1. Using a the BT keyboard, 2. thinks life would be easier if he had a BT mouse to go with it and 3. misses some 'standard' keyboard short cuts (like app switching) that are present in desktop operating systems.

subsonix said:
I have not used one, but the cover is reportedly 3mm thick, so it appears to be a touch sensitive surface rather than actual buttons.
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There are two keyboards. One is a touch sensitive surface and the other, which is a little thicker, has physical keys.
 
subsonix said:
Well to be honest it strikes me a bit as "proof of concept", as all these things are present in a laptop. I think it's a pretty interesting link and have not had the chance to post it before.
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I think the link is interesting too but it appears to fly in the face of your previous posts about the Surface being the worst of both worlds and supports other people's opinions that the iPad, by itself, is a device that is much more conducive to play time rather than work time.
 
Guys, I've found that it is quite useless to argue with subsonix. He will post and reply and reply pages after you've proved him wrong with facts. He'll spin, attempt to move goalposts.

Save your breath and let's get back to the topic.
 
Regardless of how good their tablet is, I don't think Microsoft have the marketing ability to actually make this catch on with the average person.

Apple on the other hand can sell just about anything..
 
I think you will need to go back to see how I entered the discussion. My opinion is that if you really need a laptop, the surface will be a compromise.
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Yes. Of course. If you need a i7 quad and a discrete GPU in a mobile device, you buy a laptop. However if you dont need a quad or a powerful gpu, the Surface is a good compromise between the full laptop and something more portable and, Hallelujah, you get all the advantages of the tablet world, including a quality pen digitizer a la wacom. For a student, it's perfect to take notes thanks to the keyboard while still able to play Diablo 3 on it.

Here Starcrarft 2 on the eee slate. Note that the surface will have better graphics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U93T_JTwcyQ

Also you can put keyboard shortcuts on the side of the screen using this script: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTHbCNiUpK4
 
Everyone who is trying to knock down the Surface tablets has demonstrated a significant lack of knowledge about them. I think that says a lot.
 
Not sure if mentioned elsewhere, but the display has optical bonding; the display is directly adhered to the glass, to significantly increase contrast.
 
kdarling said:
This is the kind of device that could attract corporate buyers, and pull them away from iOS and Android tablets.

IT will love it because they are already heavily invested in Windows management tools.

R&D will love it because they have tons of Windows and .NET developers.

--

Not sure how well it'll do with consumers, but I wouldn't refuse a free one to use on vacation :)
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A lot of companies have BYOD policies. Now that that genie is out of the bottle it will be hard to put it back in. I know where I work (fortune 50 company) employees are not being given tablets to use. They're letting people use their personal tablets/iPads for work related stuff. And our company is working on allowing VPN access on the iPad. I keep hearing how CIO's are going to love this device, but my guess is the Surface Pro will be more expensive than the Dell, HP or Lenovo laptops/desktops they purchase for employees (no doubt they get big fat corporate discounts). And if executives already own an iPad how many of them are going to purchase a Surface if they're allowed to connect their iPad to the company network? I can't imagine many CEO's are using Office. If they need to check email on their iPad there's an app for that (Good). And according to Good the vast majority of activations are iOS devices.

What compelling reason does the C-suite have for purchasing a Surface tablet? And if IT departments can procure laptops and desktops at a cheaper price than Surface Pro what incentive do they have to purchase them in any large quantity? My guess is not many employees of large corporations are using Ultrabooks. Unless with BYOD policies they're using their personal MacBook Air. ;)
 
Rogifan said:
A lot of companies have BYOD policies. Now that that genie is out of the bottle it will be hard to put it back in. I know where I work (fortune 50 company) employees are not being given tablets to use. They're letting people use their personal tablets/iPads for work related stuff. And our company is working on allowing VPN access on the iPad. I keep hearing how CIO's are going to love this device, but my guess is the Surface Pro will be more expensive than the Dell, HP or Lenovo laptops/desktops they purchase for employees (no doubt they get big fat corporate discounts). And if executives already own an iPad how many of them are going to purchase a Surface if they're allowed to connect their iPad to the company network? I can't imagine many CEO's are using Office. If they need to check email on their iPad there's an app for that (Good). And according to Good the vast majority of activations are iOS devices.

What compelling reason does the C-suite have for purchasing a Surface tablet? And if IT departments can procure laptops and desktops at a cheaper price than Surface Pro what incentive do they have to purchase them in any large quantity? My guess is not many employees of large corporations are using Ultrabooks. Unless with BYOD policies they're using their personal MacBook Air. ;)
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They'll buy it because it will comply with group policy better than any other tablet. They'll buy the pro because it will run whatever the company developed x86 apps are. I imagine that Microsoft will have bulk discounts for the surface for large clients, too.
 
pundit said:
Saying it's a compromise is false equivalence, though. It's as capable, 90% as expandable.
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How so? A fully blown laptop have more ports, memory, larger screen, full size "real keys" keyboard and ports. In order to make the surface small and portable alot of these things is gone, I understand why, and it's not really a problem, unless you need them. If you do need them then buying a surface or any tablet is a compromise, no?

How did you get to the 90% figure?
 
subsonix said:
How so? A fully blown laptop have more ports, memory, larger screen, full size "real keys" keyboard and ports. In order to make the surface small and portable alot of these things is gone, I understand why, and it's not really a problem, unless you need them. If you do need them then buying a surface or any tablet is a compromise, no?

How did you get to the 90% figure?
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That the best you can come up with? Obviously how capable it is compared to a laptop is not going to be a quantifiable number. Laptops come in all different sizes and "features" (i'm quoting that since I'm not sure you know what it means) 90% sounds about right to me though, I only use ultra books which do not have that many more ports (if any more at all) and don't have a screen that's a whole lot larger either.

That said, I'm still wondering what you would call the keyboard that isn't a feature.
 
2IS said:
That the best you can come up with? Obviously how capable it is compared to a laptop is not going to be a quantifiable number. Laptops come in all different sizes and "features" (i'm quoting that since I'm not sure you know what it means) 90% sounds about right to me though, I only use ultra books which do not have that many more ports (if any more at all) and don't have a screen that's a whole lot larger either.
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If you read the original post pundit mentioned that it was not objective, I edited it here for brevity. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask how the argument is a false equivalence or how he got to that figure with that in mind.
 
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