Microsoft Bashes Apple's iWork Software, New iPads

[jamesjingyi]

While I have been on Apple for 2 years now and would never go back, I would take issue with a couple of your points for the sake of balance:

MS Web Apps allow casual use of Office apps for free - no need to go for Office365
Most users won't upgrade OS on a PC until they buy a new one, in which case the software and service packs are free
MS and AVG provide decent free anti virus/firewall software
You only get iWork free with a new Mac
Until this year, recent upgrades to OSX have been charged at £20+ annually. Windows 8 is £100, so it was about the same average cost per year

I don't disagree that the whole life costs of Windows and Mac can be far closer than many realise

Oh, I didn't know about the MS web Apps... But then again, there's nothing that actually sits on your machine that MS makes that is free... I could have used Google Docs or a 3rd party alternative but its just to compare.

As far as I remember, AVG was horrible and kept asking me to upgrade to paid software to the point where I removed it completely... Anyway, its still a lot of hassle having 3rd party software to do something which the OS should do by default.

I agree with the statement of the new Mac where iWork is free but MS does not give this, even with a new PC (Not talking about RT). I can also install this on as many computers as I want since its from the App Store.

I forgot about previous years with an OS.. And the fact that W8 was after a few years..

I just felt that W8 was just a massive step in the wrong direction for MS, maybe use it as RT software, but don't change everything so fast.. People didn't ask for that.

 

[Winni]

Microsoft has totally missed the boat. Gates and the moron named Balmer never believed there would be a post-pc world.

Yeah, well, the "morons" at IBM - which still is one of the biggest companies on the world - never believed that there would be a post-mainframe world.

Currently, the "morons" at Apple don't believe that there will be a post-tablet world. They only release incremental updates and there is no sign that there ever will be another game changing product from them. (And with Steve Jobs gone, I doubt that they will be the company that creates "the next big thing". Microsoft, IBM and Google won't be that either. Someone we haven't noticed yet will be that.)

The problem with corporations is that they are normally afraid of change, and they don't slaughter their current cash cows. Apple is no different here than Microsoft or IBM or Oracle.

Microsoft are in the process of redefining themselves - they're changing into a services company. And they -do- have services that people and corporations use, and want to use. The world uses Skype, not iMessage. It's Microsoft Office, not Google Docs or iWork that is the standard. Exchange Server powers corporate email. SQL Server is big. Windows Server is the standard for Intranets, not Linux, not Solaris. That list of successful Microsoft business products that in many cases most home users have not even heard of goes on. So even if they will lose the tablet and phone market to Android and iOS, they will survive that. But with Nokia now being part of Microsoft, that game is about to change as well.

 

[jmgregory1]

This is no different to what Apple do though.

Can you change the default browser on ios? Can you change the default keyboard on ios? Can you change the default maps on ios?..... The list goes on.

Some people need to remove their blinkers.

It's hugely different because MS, back in their days of monopolistic behavior, were only producing software, not the hardware. And their "deals" with hardware vendors forced the manufacturer and in turn the consumer to only use their software, even when there were better alternatives.

Apple is nothing like MS - they are the designer of both the hardware and software. And in the case of options for things like keyboards, why should Apple allow people to change an element that is part of their core software? It's like going to Honda and telling them you like their Accord just fine, but think you should be able to choose a BMW engine be installed in it. Or go to Starbucks and tell them you like their coffee fine, but could you please have a Egg McMuffin, as you like McDonald's versions better than Starbucks...

 

[Dreamliner330]

Microsoft Bashes Apple's iWork Software, New iPads

It's hugely different because MS, back in their days of monopolistic behavior, were only producing software, not the hardware. And their "deals" with hardware vendors forced the manufacturer and in turn the consumer to only use their software, even when there were better alternatives.

Apple is nothing like MS - they are the designer of both the hardware and software. And in the case of options for things like keyboards, why should Apple allow people to change an element that is part of their core software? It's like going to Honda and telling them you like their Accord just fine, but think you should be able to choose a BMW engine be installed in it. Or go to Starbucks and tell them you like their coffee fine, but could you please have a Egg McMuffin, as you like McDonald's versions better than Starbucks...

This is precisely the issue I personally have with Apple. It's their way it the highway. So glad they finally got full screen windows on their computers. Welcome to the 80's.

You can custom order cars, coffee and food.

 

[PH22]

Here's what really scares MS. Many people no longer need or rely on PC's at home. Younger users do a great deal on their iOS or Android mobile devices, be that a smartphone, phablet or tablet.
...

I think you're making a classic mistake expecting everyone has the same needs as you do.

I've iPad 3 and quite often there are situation when I wish it was more work oriented device than it is. Don't get me wrong iPad was designed as a consumer device and it's great at it. But as tablets get more powerful more and more people like me wish they could use them at least for a limited time (like in cafe) more as a computer. That's the post PC era you're referring to. And iPad is not ready for this yet. The full USB port and mouse support for a precise control are just and example of features missing (at least the keyboard support is in iOS7).

Again, most people have got iPad for entertainment and these will not understand the need for more productivity oriented features but I think Apple's understood there is a growing trend here which may give an opportunity to a competition, hence the iWork announcement and sudden proclamations by Cook we can be productive on iPad too.

 

[Moccasin]

You have to admit though that no sane person _buys_ Windows 8. The only ones running Windows 8 are people who bought a new computer and didn't realise they had to avoid it. Don't know if good shops still sell PCs with Windows 7 or if Microsoft has stopped that.
.

Yeah I made that point - the only major exception was probably Windows 95

 

[furi0usbee]

You have to admit though that no sane person _buys_ Windows 8. The only ones running Windows 8 are people who bought a new computer and didn't realise they had to avoid it. Don't know if good shops still sell PCs with Windows 7 or if Microsoft has stopped that.

As someone mentioned, many people (kids) today get their first experience with a computer-device from a cell phone. For the people that get into computing that way, then have to deal with a Windows 8, I feel for them.

Back in the early 1990s, when I started fiddling with computers and my first computer, a Packard Bell, back in 1994 with Win for Workgroups 3.11, wow, you had know know your stuff. Do you know what it was like adding a video card, modem, scanner, etc. back then? You had to remove cases, set dip switches, check DMA/COM settings, do a whole bunch of stuff that by today's standards is rocket science. TWAIN cards and all kinds of crap... But MS would still like to be in that world of complication of smoke/mirrors. They would like to be the god of computing where you really need them. You don't anymore. In 1994, I REALLY needed them.

For people who just want to learn/use a device, how can you get simpler than an iPad or a Mac. I mean really. Forget about the power users, that's a fraction of the overall computer base who want nothing more than to get online, email, surf the web, and maybe write a letter or two. Apple has that all figured out. I can't even imagine if I dropped Win 8 in front of my father... he would simply stop using a computer.

Often, when I'm reading about Windows viruses, or malware, and websites offer 15+step processes for removing this stuff, or cleaning the registry, I often shake my head and wonder how the average user can even begin to do this stuff.

Bottom line, MS has a dominant share of the OS market. This accounts for legacy customers as well as those who just walk into a store and buy the cheapest computer. Mac OS will never come close to that share, partly because you can only run Mac OS on a Mac, and not every $100 PC out there.

But if anyone can ever sell me on the point that Win 8 is better than Mac OS for 95% of all computer users, you can sell me anything.

If the MS people will post their glowing reviews only the MS second tuesday update, I'll gladly read your replies.

 

[rxse7en]

Surface

Surface is the new Zune.

 

[TrashCanBin]

Apple has been spreading such BS for years - even decades - about Microsoft or any other competition. Was that also sad?

Look who's talking.

 

[cgsnipinva]

Which Features Were Removed in iWorks

I have read a couple of posts on this thread that stated that features were removed in the latest desktop versions of iWork. I checked out Numbers and it has the same features as before but it now has additional functions and filters. I wish it had added pivot tables.

What was removed from the package?

 

[Ragingfighter]

At redond their SDF (Self delusion field) is in full affect. It's not only about specs. It's about experience and the fact they promote the surface line as productivity tools is a fail. Throw the keyboard in free that be better instead of over charging. Let's see what does the type cover cost to make 18 estimates $18.00 or something from part estimates. You scalp peoples pockets. Microsoft sells half a laptop more then a tablet. They really need to throw in a keyboard lol. Who we kidding that won't make much difference. Then let alone it's a memory hog 32 to to have 14gb left lol fail oh 128 to have 89 ouch.

 

[niic]

Sorry if it has been posted already: I'm a bit late to the party.

 

[Popeye206]

Amazing they could sell $800 million worth of these things?

This is sad for MS.... the people have spoken and the iPad is the clear winner right now.

 

[Meister]

Can anyone tell me why ms is not running windows 8 on their tablets.
If their tablets got usb then they should just run windows 8 thats what the tile-crap is for.
Y would they introduce surface??
Windows phone didnt work, windows 8 didnt work. Now they introduce another niche OS.
I am not getting it.

 

[\-V-/]

I have read a couple of posts on this thread that stated that features were removed in the latest desktop versions of iWork. I checked out Numbers and it has the same features as before but it now has additional functions and filters. I wish it had added pivot tables.

What was removed from the package?

I've only been able to find things that were added... so I'm in the same boat.

 

[jmgregory1]

This is precisely the issue I personally have with Apple. It's their way it the highway. So glad they finally got full screen windows on their computers. Welcome to the 80's.

You can custom order cars, coffee and food.

Choice in ordering cars, coffee and food are all limited by what the individual company chooses to offer you.

With every other pc maker, you can choose this feature or that feature for hardware, but 99% of the time, you're stuck with the MS os installed on it. With Apple, they have what they decide to have for products, both on the os and hardware side. If you don't like what they offer - you choose not to buy and use their products.

What Apple figured out with the iOS is that opening up the app market allows consumers a huge number of options for how they use their devices. Sure, some things you've seen on Android are not going to be available on iOS, but again, we don't live in a world where you can just get anything you want any time you want.

 

[mw360]

And "IPad is a big iPod touch". (Not)

Seriouly? I thought that we were far past that phase...

Seriously. It's a Windows laptop with the ability to remove the keyboard, and the ability to immediately replace the keyboard because your Windows software was designed for computers with keyboards.

 

[saud0488]

Which is why Windows 8 has been such a major success...

It's harder to be bold than to play it safe for the better part of 5 years. OSX has hardly changed. and iOS? After 6 years we finally get some different icons....which is about the extent of it.

 

[PH22]

Can anyone tell me why ms is not running windows 8 on their tablets.
If their tablets got usb then they should just run windows 8 thats what the tile-crap is for.
Y would they introduce surface??
Windows phone didnt work, windows 8 didnt work.
I am not getting it.

They do, it's called Surface Pro and has a proper Core processor. There are several tablets with Atom processor and proper Win 8 from several OEMs as well but it's only the new Atom which is going to make them really usable as with the old one they were too slow.

 

[960design]

Pointing out how stupid 170 million tablet users are is probably a horrible marketing strategy. How about just shutting up and making the best products on the market; let the media, tech gurus and the owners of your amazing products promote them?

Wake the hell up and stop telling us what we want or need. How about actually just giving us what we want, wouldn't that be something new and amazing at Microsoft?

 

[Meister]

They do, it's called Surface Pro and has a proper Core processor. There are several tablets with Atom processor and proper Win 8 from several OEMs as well but it's only the new Atom which is going to make them really usable as with the old one they were too slow.

So surface pro = windows 8. I call that bad marketing and confusing.

 

[960design]

I have two barely used Surface Pro's sitting in my office. Why?! Because hardcore windows users really wanted them. We bought em and handed them out. 6 months later they were both returned and exchanged for iPads.

I use an iPad everyday ( also an UbuntuTouch Nexus 10 ), but not the surface pros. They just sit there. I'm thinking of using them as picture frames for my office.

 

[r.harris1]

Microsoft are in the process of redefining themselves - they're changing into a services company. And they -do- have services that people and corporations use, and want to use. The world uses Skype, not iMessage. It's Microsoft Office, not Google Docs or iWork that is the standard. Exchange Server powers corporate email. SQL Server is big. Windows Server is the standard for Intranets, not Linux, not Solaris. That list of successful Microsoft business products that in many cases most home users have not even heard of goes on. So even if they will lose the tablet and phone market to Android and iOS, they will survive that. But with Nokia now being part of Microsoft, that game is about to change as well.

Microsoft is going to have to do some serious redefining. Agreed with your above statements, though "want to use" might be a bit strong. I work at a typical fearful-of-change extra-large company here in the US and yep, they use Exchange, MS Office is ubiquitous, and intranets are definitely MS Servers, with a smattering of SQL Server but a lot of that is driven off the use of Exchange and microsoft's world view of "collaboration". Obviously the heavy lifting in databases and app servers is done on Linux/Oracle combinations and that's not likely to change soon. Oracle owns that space, but that's another story

But Microsoft's business model has, for many years now, centered on that concept of ubiquity. And that's also driving their "services company" redefinition (if we can really call it that). I know of very few people who wake up in the morning and "want" to use Office products, but they do, because they're what everyone else uses and some can be powerful in the right hands. But Microsoft aren't "rethinking" how things get done. They want today to be just like yesterday, but as you indicate, that's how most big companies are run.

I think it remains to be seen how the enterprise will go over the next decade. Not sure it will remain Microsoft dominated.

 

[polbit]

Having to pay for Office and no 4G connectivity is killing me though. Man how much I take things for granted...
Are you liking the SP2 though? Concerns: battery life, weight, performance on Windows 8

I got Office 2013 from HUP Program for 9.95 so can't complain My battery life is about 8 to 9 hours, much better than I expected, but of course nowhere near iPads battery life. Its definitely heavy but for my use cases it really doesn't matter - i keep it on my lap or desk during the day, and laying on bed in landscape at night. Performance is awesome, outside of heavier games, but I didn't really buy it to play games on it.

In other words, really enjoying it right now

 

[Tiger8]

So surface pro = windows 8. I call that bad marketing and confusing.

There are two surfaces, the Surface RT (Which was later renamed to Surface, and the new version of which is Surface 2), and the Surface Pro (new version Surface Pro 2). They are nothing alike, they don't even run the same software.

Surface Pro is a solid product, it is an i5 LAPTOP in a tablet package, but very pricey. Surface runs a crippled version of Windows RT and Office RT.

Confused yet?

I personally think they did themselves a huge disservice but naming the two devices the same thing; the Pro is a new form of the laptop, the RT is the 'iPad killer'.