Microsoft Bashes Apple's iWork Software, New iPads

[Dave.UK]

No, I don't hate anything that's not Apple. Seems a rather extreme emotion for a bunch of hardware and software. There are far more important things in life to reserve hate for....

Then obviously you would fall into the minority

Just read back through this thread and look at the pure hatred people are spouting at Microsoft. Heres just a couple I grabbed for the start of the thread.

MS is dead. And so is ANDROID.

But, but, but, why are your retail stores so much look like Apple's?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Stop crying and being so jealous. Your time is up, MS.

Well, let us know when you start making money on your little tablets, MS.

Absolute childishness. Same happens whenever Samsung, Android, Microsoft - Basically anyone thats in competition with Apple is mentioned.

 

[roadbloc]

The Surface 2? Doubt it. Because no one (figuratively speaking) is going to use a tablet as the primary device in a "music studio"

Damon Albarn did. But don't worry, I get you, I would never do it. My point was that Microsoft are possibly right to suggest that their Software on the Surface is more creative friendly than the iPad. Given the choice, I'd rather have full USB support and some kick ass DAW software than be restricted to GarageBand and the few accessories that the iPad can use.

 

[harlequinn]

Apple is giving away iWork to sell OS X and iOS devices. They are not trying to get more users to use iWork. If a person buys an Apple hardware product, they could care less if you use iWork or Office.

Yes, selling more hardware is part of the equation. I think they care very much if you pay their competition money for a product or not. If you spend $$$ on getting Microsoft Office that's $$$ you're not spending on Apple products.

They definitely want to increase the iWork user base. Every person using iWork in a dedicated fashion becomes a user who is less reliant on products from competing companies.

 

[G-News]

The good news is that Microsoft understands how people work better than anyone else on the planet.

Sadly, even this is not true. Microsoft doesn't understand how people work at all. It never did. What they did do is DEFINE the way people are FORCED to work, because a majority of office jobs still use their flawed Office Suite.

If it was about making software that includes understanding of how people WANT to work, Microsoft wouldn't even be here anymore.

 

[Dave.UK]

The good news is that Microsoft understands how people work better than anyone else on the planet.

Sadly, even this is not true. Microsoft doesn't understand how people work at all. It never did. What they did do is DEFINE the way people are FORCED to work, because a majority of office jobs still use their flawed Office Suite.

If it was about making software that includes understanding of how people WANT to work, Microsoft wouldn't even be here anymore.

This is no different to what Apple do though.

Can you change the default browser on ios? Can you change the default keyboard on ios? Can you change the default maps on ios?..... The list goes on.

Some people need to remove their blinkers.

 

[tmanto02]

I met a guy at uni today who says he likes going into the Genius Bar to stump geniuses on windows phone 8. While he typed there on his surface rt.

I just want more "I'm a PC ads", perhaps this time round PC will have his hair died green and his ear pierced as he is severely trying to look cool.

 

[furi0usbee]

Maybe Frank should look back at a few of my personal favorites from Microsoft: Bob, Windows Me, and Vista.

Hey, what about that talking parrot? Didn't they have a talking parrot or paperclip or something? That was fun stuff. Anyway, I think Apple and MS started out with great intentions, making money by providing a product/service. However, along the lines, MS got so good at just making money they lost sight of making great products.

I wrote Bill Gates an email a long time ago, maybe 1996-ish. I told him how much I loved his products and how MS should make computers, and a bunch of other stuff. Long story short, Steve Jobs must have intercepted the email, because all the things I wrote about MS at that time, Apple eventually would either do or exceed my expectations.

I've been removed from MS and the Windows world since Feb. 2005 when I got my first Mac, a mini, and I can NEVER go back. But MS needs to rid itself of the corporate mentality and go back to a startup mentality. They might actually do something that can change the world, rather than copy what everybody else in the world does. Just a thought.

 

[Roller]

As much as it pains me to say it, MS's Frank Shaw is mostly accurate - especially since the latest version of iWork is a step in the wrong direction. Yes I've been trying hard to make the latest iWork for me. It needed more features not less!!!!

Does anyone on the iWork development team care about how their software is actually used in the real world? Are the iWork engineers spread around too many projects to even give a d*mn?

Come on Apple pleeeeze get with it. You've had a large window of opportunity to create a solid set of mobile to desktop productivity tools with iWork. However, even after all these years you continue to drop the ball and give Microsoft a free pass for the only viable business and enterprise productivity solutions. Unless you have a clandestine agreement with MS to purposely fail, what on earth are you thinking?

Agree. I don't know about Pages or Numbers, but Keynote 6.0 is a downgrade, as some features have been removed.

 

[furi0usbee]

I met a guy at uni today who says he likes going into the Genius Bar to stump geniuses on windows phone 8. While he typed there on his surface rt.

I just want more "I'm a PC ads", perhaps this time round PC will have his hair died green and his ear pierced as he is severely trying to look cool.

What to stump an MS employee? Visit their store. Seriously. In Providence, RI, at the Providence Place Mall, MS has a kiosk not 100 feet from the Apple Store. With 100% honesty, I can say that I must have walked by that kiosk about 100 times, and I can count on two hands the number of people I saw "looking," not even buying. It's sad. Then I walk over yonder to the promised-land and are elbow to elbow with people looking *and* buying. If that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.

Before Apple, I NEVER upgraded an OS, I never stood in line for a computer product. I didn't know what that was. I could never have understood what all the fuss is about, devotion, etc. It took me a decade of being a Windows user to finally see what the fuss was about-- great products. Products that are truly "plug and play."

So yeah, stump your favorite MS employee by actually visiting the store. Maybe even pick up a copy of the OS, then put it down after looking at the back of the box. That will surely stump them.

 

[Osullivan1]

Well, W8 has more market share than all OSX versions together, and it is increasing rapidly (something OSX is NOT doing). If W8 is a failure, what is OSX?

I meant in comparison to the success of other Windows OS's - if Microsoft thinks they know the consumer "better than anyone else on the planet", then why didn't as many people upgrade to Windows 8 as did Windows 7/XP etc.

Plus, Apple's focus is on mobile devices, where iOS is miles more popular than Windows 8/WP8.

I'm not saying I don't like Windows 8, it's ambitious and interesting - which is what I like companies to be, I just found their sweeping statement quite funny considering their current state

 

[TMay]

Preaching to the choir

I don't have an opinion on the Surface devices. They don't fit any of my needs, so not of interest to me.

But, I do have an opinion on Office.

For those people that need it, you already know who you are. Maybe you are in the market for a Surface. Great.

Here's news.

The world doesn't revolve around Office.

There are plenty of options for alternatives, and not just in Apple's sphere of influence. iWork is sufficient for me. Most of my work is focused on making things, and otherwise, I'm more interested in fulfilling interests better served by Apple and Adobe.

Tying Office to Surface makes sense to current Office users, but to everyone else, Office and Windows aren't exactly must haves.

Post PC, people are reevaluating the need for Office, and many of the younger smartphone/tablet users aren't being indoctrinated with Office through PC's or educational institutions.

There are alternatives available for Linux, Chrome OS, Android OS, iOS and OSX, and other operating systems.

Between Post PC, and Office alternatives, the blog post comes across as a bit too much in defense of Office, and in a condescending way.

But, hey.

Don't let me get in the way of a good food fight.

Carry on.

 

[jamesjingyi]

So if I want desktop, Microsoft, I have to pay $199 for W8... Mavericks is free.
I have to pay $99 a year for Office, iWork is free.
I don't get iLife.
I have to buy Antivirus software and even then probably still get viruses.
My computer will be deemed not to be able to run the latest operating system within 3-4 years.
I have to relearn how to use a computer with the latest operating system since it is so different and is badly made for computers without a touch screen.
I don't get that prestige and great customer service that I get with a Mac.

I think I'll probably spend less on a Mac..

 

[G-News]

This is no different to what Apple do though.

Can you change the default browser on ios? Can you change the default keyboard on ios? Can you change the default maps on ios?..... The list goes on.

Some people need to remove their blinkers.

Naw, you need to differentiate. Nobody is forced to use iOS, there is plenty of competition on the market to cater for all kinds of needs. And even on iOS you an at least use a different browser or a different maps application.

With Microsoft office documents, for years, you had no choice. It was Microsoft or nothing and that is the sole and only reason today why they are still the market leader. Back then, there were plenty of alternative word processors etc. They all faded into oblivion as they were monopolized out of the market by MS.
They are slowly losing their grip on the office market now and viable alternatives are once again available (Google Docs, OpenOffice etc.).
Let me make that clear: Apple is strong today because people CHOOSE to buy their products. That was never the case with Microsoft. Ever.

 

[furi0usbee]

Agree. I don't know about Pages or Numbers, but Keynote 6.0 is a downgrade, as some features have been removed.

Pages and Numbers have been great for me. I still would need to use Excel if I needed to do something really hard, but for 99% what I need, Numbers is fine. I haven't played around with Pages too much, but again, I use it as a light WP app. I can't and never could replace Word for the people who need the power features. But maybe Apple is cutting prices so they can relieve some of the headaches that more powerful features can cause. They maybe figure FREE is something you can't complain about, so just deal.

Now, the sad part is that rather than MS blowing smoke, why doesn't MS offer Office for say $49.99 on the MAS. That would certainly stop a chunk of iWork adoption. Or offer each of the 3 main components for $14.99?

I think they would sell many more units of Office for Mac if they went head to head.

 

[southernpaws]

I don't believe that is true - I believe it was a flat out price cut which I would think would hit their margins (not sure how margins matter for this argument although I know the goal posts constantly move for the pro-Apple arguments).

There were no subsidies for the 1st generation iPhone if i remember correctly. If you remember, there were enough unhappy customers that they were essentially forced into giving $100 Apple store credits, which they would not have done if it was a matter of subsidies.

Had to do a brief search, but that sounds right.

It wasn't an issue of moving goal posts...the point about margins is that if Microsoft is cutting the price at the expense of their margins, and significantly so, then it can be an indicator of success. It shows a degree of desperation by wanting to move units at the expense of profits. But the snark was a nice touch

 

[furi0usbee]

I have to give MS some credit here though, they are merging the desktop experience with the tablet experience and trying to come up with a solution. Apple will eventually do this as well. The only difference is that Apple will wait until they can do it right. Mac OS and iOS at some point in time will become one, and depending on what device you are running, you will get a user experience designed for that device.

Personally, I would love a 15" iPad-like device from Apple. A tablet on the outside, a complete computer on the inside. I can use it as a touch interface in my hands when I want running a touch OS, and I can prop it on a kick stand, and use my BT keyboard and mouse at home, using a full desktop OS.

I have the retina 15" MBP. If I could pull off the display, and use that as touch like an iPad when I need to, and then use that as my primary computer when I need to, that would be awesome. I'd even settle for 13".

Unlike Apple, MS is just trying to get there, make some money, then hope it "sticks." Apple will take the time to perfect such a strategy, then deploy.

 

[62tele]

Here's what really scares MS. Many people no longer need or rely on PC's at home. Younger users do a great deal on their iOS or Android mobile devices, be that a smartphone, phablet or tablet.

Cook was right on about tablets trying to be laptops and laptops trying to be tablets. It's silly and clumsy. USB drives? Seriously? I don't even carry one. It's all about Evernote or any of the other clever apps that let you view, move or access and edit your files etc from any device you're using.

Reliance on desktops and even laptops, is decreasing. You use a PC at work. Yea! You go home and do everything else on your phone or tablet. Not everyone brings work home with them. Even so, you can remote into your work desktop if necessary. I am Windows free at home (except for remoting into my work desktop occasionally) and have been for years. I am not sure how much I would use my iMac if I wasn't a serious Logic user for recording guitar etc

If you use a laptop or desktop for creative projects, music, video or photos, there are far more choices than just Windows based software. People are no longer captive to Windows.

Microsoft has totally missed the boat. Gates and the moron named Balmer never believed there would be a post-pc world.

 

[TMay]

This is no different to what Apple do though.

Can you change the default browser on ios? Can you change the default keyboard on ios? Can you change the default maps on ios?..... The list goes on.

Some people need to remove their blinkers.

I think you meant to say "blinders" but you're British, so maybe that's the colloquial expression there.

iOS is locked down in a lot of ways, but it isn't masquerading as a desktop system on mobile hardware, which is what Surface is.

Different paradigms at work, and the market has so far rewarded Apple handsomely. Maybe that will change.

 

[gnasher729]

I have to give MS some credit here though, they are merging the desktop experience with the tablet experience and trying to come up with a solution.

No credit from me. They would have got credit for attempting to do this, to realise that it doesn't work and put it on a back burner until it works (if that is ever the case, because laptop and desktop are not the same thing). They most definitely get no credit whatsoever for shoving this flawed experience down the throats of their customers.

 

[southernpaws]

Please, just try a Surface 2 and talk based at least on your experience, not rumors.
And remember iOS is based on OSX. Does it make it a bad mobile OS? Would it be much better if it had been done "from the ground up" for mobile?.... I don't think so.

I admit I don't know fully about the surface. That's why I was speaking with suggestion rather than conviction. It was a thought that, if he found it to be either true or false in his experience, could help him make his mind.

Yes, iOS is rooted in osx. It was still designed as a mobile os and has little directly in common with osx aside from its roots

 

[Moccasin]

So if I want desktop, Microsoft, I have to pay $199 for W8... Mavericks is free.
I have to pay $99 a year for Office, iWork is free.
I don't get iLife.
I have to buy Antivirus software and even then probably still get viruses.
My computer will be deemed not to be able to run the latest operating system within 3-4 years.
I have to relearn how to use a computer with the latest operating system since it is so different and is badly made for computers without a touch screen.
I don't get that prestige and great customer service that I get with a Mac.

I think I'll probably spend less on a Mac..

While I have been on Apple for 2 years now and would never go back, I would take issue with a couple of your points for the sake of balance:

MS Web Apps allow casual use of Office apps for free - no need to go for Office365
Most users won't upgrade OS on a PC until they buy a new one, in which case the software and service packs are free
MS and AVG provide decent free anti virus/firewall software
You only get iWork free with a new Mac
Until this year, recent upgrades to OSX have been charged at £20+ annually. Windows 8 is £100, so it was about the same average cost per year

I don't disagree that the whole life costs of Windows and Mac can be far closer than many realise

 

[gnasher729]

Hey, what about that talking parrot? Didn't they have a talking parrot or paperclip or something? That was fun stuff.

That was just about the time when Apple released Spotlight. On a Mac, I typed the name of a document into Spotlight and there it was. On Windows, the search took ages, and they had this stupid dog wagging its tail when it was searching. And I thought to myself "if they added a baseball bat and let you hit that stupid dog while the search goes on, that would be fun". Not proud of myself, but I hated that stupid dog wagging its tail while I was waiting for stupid Windows to finish its search.

 

[southernpaws]

I don't know what you mean. Microsoft's Skydrive includes the Office Web apps for free (Word, excel, powerpoint and One note). They are at least as good as the ones you mention. Better, in my opinion.

The full Office (not the web apps) has many more options than any of these cloud apps. Maybe you don't need that extra power (only some professionals do), but that doesn't mean it is not a great product.

I use the skydrive apps daily for work. They're passable yet cumbersome, exactly what one would expect from a web app. Overall I'm a fan because my whole team can use it.

Check out the web versions of iWork. It's amazing how much they were able to accomplish with it. It definitely exceeds expectations of what a web app would feel like

 

[gnasher729]

Until this year, recent upgrades to OSX have been charged at £20+ annually. Windows 8 is £100, so it was about the same average cost per year

You have to admit though that no sane person _buys_ Windows 8. The only ones running Windows 8 are people who bought a new computer and didn't realise they had to avoid it. Don't know if good shops still sell PCs with Windows 7 or if Microsoft has stopped that.

Now, the sad part is that rather than MS blowing smoke, why doesn't MS offer Office for say $49.99 on the MAS. That would certainly stop a chunk of iWork adoption. Or offer each of the 3 main components for $14.99?

I think they would sell many more units of Office for Mac if they went head to head.

Sure, but that would mean trouble for their corporate business. You can run Office on an iPad indirectly (runs on a corporate server, and you connect to it) without problems, but that means Microsoft gets _real_ money for the license. Not $14.99. Remember, it's their business. Apple's business is selling Macs, iPhones and iPads. If Apple sells _one_ additional iPad because of the free iWorks, they make more money than Microsoft makes with twenty $14.99 sales.

 

[salmon]

Both Apple and Microsoft have Reality Distortion Fields in operating. The difference is Apple's operates outwards, towards users, customers, etc. Microsoft's operates inwards, towards their management in making them thing they make good stuff.

They make a few good products, but for the most part working with MS products is the opposite of Apple's. Where Apple's products mostly surprise you with delightful, well-thought out features and functionality, MS's frustrate you as you run into unexpected roadblocks.